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Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
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Can anyone please remind me as I honestly don’t remember, but the top corners and top middle of trackpad doesn’t click down after replacing battery. It's working fine, and click is good at middle and below, just not the top. Is this because my new battery is a bit of a bloater, or did the top part never press down on the 2011 13" MBP. Coconut says 'good', although 90% 'design capacity', whatever that means, Assume it should be 100?

And, do you bother to calibrate? The new battery was depleted to beyond nothing, and it took whole day to charge initially, I didn't bother.

Finally, a few years ago when replacing drive, I replaced the 4GB RAM to 8. Will 16 give this a noticeable difference or not worth it unless there are several things at once open. For example, Does that extra lump stop the fan from coming on every time you play YouTube or other video?
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
28,738
12,851
It's not worth putting 16gb of RAM into a 12-year-old MacBook Pro.
Probably won't make that much of a difference.

You've got to consider that it's just getting... old.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,731
1,607
Destin, FL
Can anyone please remind me as I honestly don’t remember, but the top corners and top middle of trackpad doesn’t click down after replacing battery. It's working fine, and click is good at middle and below, just not the top. Is this because my new battery is a bit of a bloater, or did the top part never press down on the 2011 13" MBP. Coconut says 'good', although 90% 'design capacity', whatever that means, Assume it should be 100?

And, do you bother to calibrate? The new battery was depleted to beyond nothing, and it took whole day to charge initially, I didn't bother.

Finally, a few years ago when replacing drive, I replaced the 4GB RAM to 8. Will 16 give this a noticeable difference or not worth it unless there are several things at once open. For example, Does that extra lump stop the fan from coming on every time you play YouTube or other video?
Congrats on keeping your computer in great shape for an impressive lifespan!
Heck your computer is older than both of my cars (combined age), it is older than my house, older than my dog, older than my marriage.

PS. I cannot remember if the trackpad clicked or not, but I feel like the top did not move, it "hinged."
 

Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
2,048
87
It's not worth putting 16gb of RAM into a 12-year-old MacBook Pro.
Probably won't make that much of a difference.

You've got to consider that it's just getting... old.
Like me, pretty much...

I just love the older version of ports, and the fact I don't have to upgrade Word or Photoshop etc because it's a lot more than just buying a new MBP. It's a whole load of software all over again too.

Congrats on keeping your computer in great shape for an impressive lifespan!
Heck your computer is older than both of my cars (combined age), it is older than my house, older than my dog, older than my marriage.

PS. I cannot remember if the trackpad clicked or not, but I feel like the top did not move, it "hinged."

'Great shape' is a bit of a stretch. Surely not that rare for people keeping them and Frankensteining them?
House, dog, car, marriage, I won't ask which one is the painful one. Man it's 11, nearly 12. Is that so old now?
I just bought an iPad Air thinking it would fill the void for new tech. I won't tell you what iPhone I"m on at the moment then.. :cool:
 

Brian33

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
1,452
362
USA (Virginia)
but the top corners and top middle of trackpad doesn’t click down after replacing battery. It's working fine, and click is good at middle and below, just not the top. Is this because my new battery is a bit of a bloater, or did the top part never press down on the 2011 13"

I just checked my 15-inch Early 2011 MBP -- the upper corners don't "click" like the lower part does. The trackpad appears to be hinged at the top edge. So I think yours is fine!

Will 16 give this a noticeable difference or not worth it unless there are several things at once open. For example, Does that extra lump stop the fan from coming on every time you play YouTube or other video?
I doubt 8GB more RAM will benefit you much, unless you are generating a large swap file and have only a HDD inside (mine had an SSD). I don't think lack of RAM would cause the fans to come on playing a YouTube video. That does seem odd, though. Maybe use Activity Monitor and check the CPU and Memory tabs.

I was a sad day for me when my 15" died several months ago. It had been in daily use for all those eleven years (quite a few of them with the discrete GPU disabled), but finally it won't boot up at all. :-(

Good luck and I hope you continue to get use out of yours!
 

parlem

macrumors member
Jun 10, 2010
53
24
The top section of the trackpad on my mid-2012 MBP does NOT click, either. In fact, I not ashamed to admit that I didn't realise on modern MBPs the whole area of the trackpad is clickable.

As for the extra RAM, I'd say that if you can get hold of a CHEAP stick, it's worth trying. The big performance gain, though, would be from moving to an SSD HD and ditching the original HD. But I'm sure you've done that already.

Many happy returns!
 

Alpha Centauri

macrumors 65816
Oct 13, 2020
1,278
996
Can anyone please remind me as I honestly don’t remember, but the top corners and top middle of trackpad doesn’t click down after replacing battery. It's working fine, and click is good at middle and below, just not the top.
Going by my 2009 15" the trackpad has no travel at the top. From there, about 1/3 of the way down it starts clicking from the sides.
 

Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
2,048
87
I just checked my 15-inch Early 2011 MBP -- the upper corners don't "click" like the lower part does. The trackpad appears to be hinged at the top edge. So I think yours is fine!


I doubt 8GB more RAM will benefit you much, unless you are generating a large swap file and have only a HDD inside (mine had an SSD). I don't think lack of RAM would cause the fans to come on playing a YouTube video. That does seem odd, though. Maybe use Activity Monitor and check the CPU and Memory tabs.

I was a sad day for me when my 15" died several months ago. It had been in daily use for all those eleven years (quite a few of them with the discrete GPU disabled), but finally it won't boot up at all. :-(

Good luck and I hope you continue to get use out of yours!

Thank you, After battery, SSD and RAM, that's me done, IF anything else goes, or 'when' it goes, cards, fan etc, I'm done. I can't replace anything else now. That's my huge skills limit! Me and YouTube video instructions! The fans have always come on, since it was new. Whatever browser I used

The top section of the trackpad on my mid-2012 MBP does NOT click, either. In fact, I not ashamed to admit that I didn't realise on modern MBPs the whole area of the trackpad is clickable.

As for the extra RAM, I'd say that if you can get hold of a CHEAP stick, it's worth trying. The big performance gain, though, would be from moving to an SSD HD and ditching the original HD. But I'm sure you've done that already.

Many happy returns!

I think that's what threw me, Because the new ones are clickable everywhere. Obviously I never noticed, it's only been 12 years! But it's probably not a natural thing, to click up top, hence why I had no clue after battery change. I wish I was the same age as MBP.

Going by my 2009 15" the trackpad has no travel at the top. From there, about 1/3 of the way down it starts clicking from the sides.

Thank you, I thought I maybe fitted battery wrong, or it was bloated. Did have a very slight pop-out on the little circular shaped ring on bottom. But not enough to stop me fitting it.

My 2011 13" doesn't click at the top, but starts to about 1/2 to 3/4" down. I had never tried this before.

Thanks for trying. Most helpful.
 

Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
2,048
87
Out of interest, while we're on the subject of batteries and charging, A question RE cycle count?

I thought that it was only if you charge to 100% that it counts as one full cycle? but I’ve done about half a dozen 60% to 80% charges, (apart from the initial 100% charge after fitting battery), but, every time I plug it in now, the count goes up by '1' regardless. So it shows '7' as the cycle count, and yes I have plugged it in '7' times, but only once to 100%.

Have I got this totally wrong, or isn’t it only when it reaches 100% that it’s a full cycle, so 2 separate charges of 50% is should only count as 1 cycle?
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,651
6,103
there
Out of interest, while we're on the subject of batteries and charging, A question RE cycle count?

I thought that it was only if you charge to 100% that it counts as one full cycle? but I’ve done about half a dozen 60% to 80% charges, (apart from the initial 100% charge after fitting battery), but, every time I plug it in now, the count goes up by '1' regardless. So it shows '7' as the cycle count, and yes I have plugged it in '7' times, but only once to 100%.

Have I got this totally wrong, or isn’t it only when it reaches 100% that it’s a full cycle, so 2 separate charges of 50% is should only count as 1 cycle?

I installed a new battery for my MacBook air 2010 last month and well:
Battery Information:
Manufacturer: Newer Tech
Device Name: A1495
Charge Information:
Charge Remaining (mAh): 5280
Fully Charged: No
Charging: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 5428
Health Information:
Cycle Count: 8
Condition: Normal
Battery Installed: Yes
Amperage (mA): -680
Voltage (mV): 8142

the battery last 5 hours and fits like a glove!
I think a cycle count is recharges that made.

as far as your MacBook being "old" I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro 2012, 16 GB RAM
Monterey via OCLP
and ordered a caddy to add another ssd drive with Mojave just now.
they are still great MacBooks!
 

Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
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But the cycle count is supposed to be the 'amount of times it's been fully charged to 100%', so why is it just reading every charge as 1 full cycle, regardless of it not being anywhere near a full charge, That is what I don't understand?
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,690
7,888
Can anyone please remind me as I honestly don’t remember, but the top corners and top middle of trackpad doesn’t click down after replacing battery.
Yeah - just tried my old 17" 2011 (still works with the faulty dGPU disabled) and a newer (but not much) MBA and the trackpad is hinged at the top so you can't click close to the top edge.

The top section of the trackpad on my mid-2012 MBP does NOT click, either. In fact, I not ashamed to admit that I didn't realise on modern MBPs the whole area of the trackpad is clickable.

The new, larger trackpads & the Magic Trackpad 2 don't physically move at all - they're pressure sensitive with a piezo sounder generating haptic feedback (even for the "force touch" secondary click). It's amazingly convincing.
 
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Needleroozer

macrumors regular
Mar 29, 2013
139
201
2 separate charges of 50% is should only count as 1 cycle?

This is correct - cycle count is not the number of times that the battery has reached the 100% charge state but rather the number of times that the full capacity of the battery has been replenished (2 50% charges, 4 25% charges, 10 10% charges, etc.).
If your cycle counter increments every time you plug in the charger, no matter how short, something is wrong with the battery monitoring gas gauge chip in your battery.
 

Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
2,048
87
Yeah - just tried my old 17" 2011 (still works with the faulty dGPU disabled) and a newer (but not much) MBA and the trackpad is hinged at the top so you can't click close to the top edge.



The new, larger trackpads & the Magic Trackpad 2 don't physically move at all - they're pressure sensitive with a piezo sounder generating haptic feedback (even for the "force touch" secondary click). It's amazingly convincing.
Thanks. Just amazed I have never noticed it in 12 years!
So much like the old iPhone 8 etc home button that felt like it moved but didn't.

This is correct - cycle count is not the number of times that the battery has reached the 100% charge state but rather the number of times that the full capacity of the battery has been replenished (2 50% charges, 4 25% charges, 10 10% charges, etc.).
If your cycle counter increments every time you plug in the charger, no matter how short, something is wrong with the battery monitoring gas gauge chip in your battery.
Thank you, yes, it literally changes every time I charge/plug in, regardless of percentage. It goes up 1 more cycle count even if I only charge to 10 or 20%.

There's a 'gas gauge chip'? And I assume is untouchable and nothing I can do about it?
System Report and Coconut give the same cycle reading.
 

Needleroozer

macrumors regular
Mar 29, 2013
139
201
Thanks. Just amazed I have never noticed it in 12 years!
So much like the old iPhone 8 etc home button that felt like it moved but didn't.


Thank you, yes, it literally changes every time I charge/plug in, regardless of percentage. It goes up 1 more cycle count even if I only charge to 10 or 20%.

There's a 'gas gauge chip'? And I assume is untouchable and nothing I can do about it?
System Report and Coconut give the same cycle reading.

The gas gauge chip is internal to the battery and is basically not to be messed with. In theory there are ways to interact with it and upgrade its firmware, but those are mostly academic rather than practical.
Sounds like grounds for a return unless you’re out of the return window; that is not normal behavior...

Doing a full calibration might help it get its head screwed back on straight, so it’s worth a shot. If the gas gauge thinks you have a super low battery capacity, then it might be counting the infinitesimal amounts of charge you are adding as a full cycle of that low capacity. Recalibrating might fix it, but it may just be hopelessly confused.
 
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Brachaci

Contributor
Jul 27, 2014
298
292
Slovakia
Is this because my new battery is a bit of a bloater, or did the top part never press down on the 2011 13" MBP. Coconut says 'good', although 90% 'design capacity', whatever that means, Assume it should be 100?

And, do you bother to calibrate? The new battery was depleted to beyond nothing, and it took whole day to charge initially, I didn't bother.
Hi, it is not natural that new battery will have 90% of the original capacity and definitely should not be a bloater. If the battery is swollen it is most likely already outgassing which is really a sign of an outdated battery. I would have replaced that ASAP as you are risking damaging your MBP which would be a shame as it did served you good so far. I have MBP 17 early 2011 and have replaced battery after 7 years of daily use. Back then the battery did have 100% of its original capacity (according to coconut battery), but to be honest it did not lasted as long as the original battery.
 
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MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,651
6,103
there
I forgot to include if the new battery was conditioned?
this means one should let the battery go 9%, full charge then drain to 9%
OWC suggested I do this 3-4 times and that helped the battery life and strength.
and
this time I will not keep the powerchord plugged in over night an during the day
the original MBA battery was kept plugged in since 2010 which did last almost 13 years,
but shorter battery life that day.

hope this helps!
 
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Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
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The gas gauge chip is internal to the battery and is basically not to be messed with. In theory there are ways to interact with it and upgrade its firmware, but those are mostly academic rather than practical.
Sounds like grounds for a return unless you’re out of the return window; that is not normal behavior...

Doing a full calibration might help it get its head screwed back on straight, so it’s worth a shot. If the gas gauge thinks you have a super low battery capacity, then it might be counting the infinitesimal amounts of charge you are adding as a full cycle of that low capacity. Recalibrating might fix it, but it may just be hopelessly confused.
The first charge I did let run to 0% and let it switch off itself. There's no doubt it is better than the last battery, but that wouldn't be hard. It didn't work without the charger plugged in. Return window is long gone. I've had it sitting for a long time. Is there any mileage in PRAM and the SMC resets which I see come up after new battery? It's a bit of a gutter that the cycle count is way off, but it's a small price to pay for a 2011 MBP which gets used every single day.

Hi, it is not natural that new battery will have 90% of the original capacity and definitely should not be a bloater. If the battery is swollen it is most likely already outgassing which is really a sign of an outdated battery. I would have replaced that ASAP as you are risking damaging your MBP which would be a shame as it did served you good so far. I have MBP 17 early 2011 and have replaced battery after 7 years of daily use. Back then the battery did have 100% of its original capacity (according to coconut battery), but to be honest it did not lasted as long as the original battery.
I think because the battery has been sitting is why it's on 90%. Presumably even if not fitted and sitting in a box, it would lose the 10% over time? What is meant by 'design' capacity, Just what sort of condition it's in?
Here is the reading just before draining to 0 again
Is the full charge capacity 5246 the norm or would it be more if that design capacity was 100?

I forgot to include if the new battery was conditioned?
this means one should let the battery go 9%, full charge then drain to 9%
OWC suggested I do this 3-4 times and that helped the battery life and strength.
and
this time I will not keep the powerchord plugged in over night an during the day
the original MBA battery was kept plugged in since 2010 which did last almost 13 years,
but shorter battery life that day.

hope this helps!

So conditioned, as in, why 9%? I did notice it went from 25% to 0 a lot quicker than it dropped from 50 to 25 when using it last night.

I hope this thread may be of some use to others who want to keep the old MBP on the go. It's an easy fix.
Looking at YouTube it seems a lot more common than I thought. Part changes being the plus, and big on the ports and CD drive.
 
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Needleroozer

macrumors regular
Mar 29, 2013
139
201
The first charge I did let run to 0% and let it switch off itself. There's no doubt it is better than the last battery, but that wouldn't be hard. It didn't work without the charger plugged in. Return window is long gone. I've had it sitting for a long time. Is there any mileage in PRAM and the SMC resets which I see come up after new battery? It's a bit of a gutter that the cycle count is way off, but it's a small price to pay for a 2011 MBP which gets used every single day.


I think because the battery has been sitting is why it's on 90%. Presumably even if not fitted and sitting in a box, it would lose the 10% over time? What is meant by 'design' capacity, Just what sort of condition it's in?
Here is the reading just before draining to 0 again
Is the full charge capacity 5246 the norm or would it be more if that design capacity was 100?
Design capacity is how much capacity the battery was designed to have; “Full Charge Capacity” is what the gas gauge thinks it has now. The percentage is calculated by dividing the “Full Charge Capacity” by the design capacity.

I would expect a design capacity more like 7000mAh from a 2011 MacBook Pro battery; they’re supposed to be around 77Wh, so at a supply voltage of around 11V, you get 7Ah (7000mAh). But since it’s running the laptop just fine and you can’t send it back, I would ignore the cycle counter.

Batteries degrading to 90% of new capacity in storage isn’t exactly common but I wouldn’t say it is out of the realm of possibility.

So conditioned, as in, why 9%? I did notice it went from 25% to 0 a lot quicker than it dropped from 50 to 25 when using it last night.

I hope this thread may be of some use to others who want to keep the old MBP on the go. It's an easy fix.
Looking at YouTube it seems a lot more common than I thought. Part changes being the plus, and big on the ports and CD drive.

I have no clue where 9% comes from. The point of a battery calibration cycle is to let the gas gauge monitor exactly how much current can flow in and out of the battery on a full charge cycle, so stopping at 9% wouldn’t give as accurate a value.
 
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Peter Franks

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Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
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Design capacity is how much capacity the battery was designed to have; “Full Charge Capacity” is what the gas gauge thinks it has now. The percentage is calculated by dividing the “Full Charge Capacity” by the design capacity.

I would expect a design capacity more like 7000mAh from a 2011 MacBook Pro battery; they’re supposed to be around 77Wh, so at a supply voltage of around 11V, you get 7Ah (7000mAh). But since it’s running the laptop just fine and you can’t send it back, I would ignore the cycle counter.

Batteries degrading to 90% of new capacity in storage isn’t exactly common but I wouldn’t say it is out of the realm of possibility.



I have no clue where 9% comes from. The point of a battery calibration cycle is to let the gas gauge monitor exactly how much current can flow in and out of the battery on a full charge cycle, so stopping at 9% wouldn’t give as accurate a value.
Thanks for this, I assume the PRAM resets won't change anything, and yes, I would say the fact that I'm still using it, or the fact it still works is a plus at the moment. Like I say, after battery/SSD/RAM, that's my limit. Then it'll get retired if anything else dies. Just bought new iPad Air, but it doesn't really replace the MBP for ease, even with the keyboard accessories. I kind of hoped it would take some of the load, but... not really. And my iPhone needs replacing as it's needing a charge 3 times a day minimum, so next priority, and just hope the MBP holds out a bit longer.
 
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saudor

macrumors 68000
Jul 18, 2011
1,510
2,112
Is that battery 3rd party? aka replaced at some cheap place or ebay/amazon?
If so, it could be a used battery with its cycles hacked. There are also those where the cycles always stays at 1 no matter what and other shenanigans.

Although i guess it's not possible to buy a legit battery for a 2011 now.

As for the loud fans, it may help to take it apart, clean the cooling system and re-apply thermal paste to both the GPU/CPU but this can be a lot of work
 
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Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
2,048
87
Is that battery 3rd party? aka replaced at some cheap place or ebay/amazon?
If so, it could be a used battery with its cycles hacked. There are also those where the cycles always stays at 1 no matter what and other shenanigans.

Although i guess it's not possible to buy a legit battery for a 2011 now.

As for the loud fans, it may help to take it apart, clean the cooling system and re-apply thermal paste to both the GPU/CPU but this can be a lot of work
It's supposedly an OEM battery, from a now defunct company, otherwise I'd have got another one. At the time it was the only one who offered OEM but the ones around today look suspect and as you say, impossible to get one now. This one is an SMP which is supposedly legit Apple, and in fairness it did look it, but as you can see the battery age is early 2019. Yes, my limit was the battery and SSD, I daren't touch the fans. Thanks for your help
 

Peter Franks

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 9, 2011
2,048
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This shows a 2% loss on Design Capacity has degraded after just 2 charges, and the Full Charge Capacity has degraded also. Is that usual on these Coconut readings?

 

Needleroozer

macrumors regular
Mar 29, 2013
139
201
This shows a 2% loss on Design Capacity has degraded after just 2 charges, and the Full Charge Capacity has degraded also. Is that usual on these Coconut readings?


The percentage in that bar under Design Capacity is simply the ratio of Full Charge Capacity over Design Capacity, so it will move every time either one of those fields changes.

And yes, it’s pretty normal for the Full Charge Capacity to move around a bit since the gas gauge is constantly re-evaluating how much charge it thinks the battery can deliver.
 
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