eBay bargains - what's your latest conquest?

[Amethyst1]

Didn't know about the twin gigabit gizmo. Availability and price though...

I’ve found cheaper ones but they use Realtek chipsets.

But still, I guess it would be best or at least easiest option for me to swap around stuff so I get a the 2012 Mini for that job.

How are you going to connect two TB GigE dongles to it (unless that’s not the plan)? The 2014 mini introduced two TB ports.

 

[ToniCH]

How are you going to connect two TB GigE dongles to it (unless that’s not the plan)? The 2014 mini introduced two TB ports.

I didn't check, I assumed it has 2. 😂 And I gave my 2014 away for my mom. 👍

In that case I guess I need to improvise something. 🧐 Belkin TB Express Dock has 2 TB connectors and a gigabit ethernet (as does Elgato TB dock 2), that should work. 2 ethernets from the dock and 1 direct from the machine. Or buy a USB 3 to gigabit ethernet -dongle is another possibility.

 

[Tratkazir_the_1st]

What is the point?

As I wrote earlier - configure FW port as Ethernet (+ connect some mac only using FW) .

 

[ToniCH]

As I wrote earlier - configure FW port as Ethernet (+ connect some mac only using FW) .

Yes, I saw that but I don't understand the reasoning for it. Do you have a Mac with no ethernet but only Firewire? So you cannot do ethernet-ethernet or firewire-firewire? Or is the 2 ethernet ports in your Mac Pro not enough? Then a PCI ethernet card is in order.

There must be some point I now fail to consider as I do not understand.

 

[Amethyst1]

And I gave my 2014 away for my mom. 👍

They have the lowest idle power consumption among all Intel minis.

Belkin TB Express Dock has 2 TB connectors and a gigabit ethernet (as does Elgato TB dock 2), that should work. 2 ethernets from the dock and 1 direct from the machine.

Uh… I didn’t consider adding a dock to the mix. 😅

Or is the 2 ethernet ports in your Mac Pro not enough? Then a PCI ethernet card is in order.

Go big or go home.

 

[Amethyst1]

My masochism reared its ugly head and I just bought a Matrox DS1 for all of 17 bucks including shipping. I need help. 🤣

So it's here, bringing along some don't-buy-first-generation-products feelings. Manufacture date is January 20th, 2013.

Having the sole Thunderbolt port on the front is peculiar, having the sole slow USB 3.0 port there... less so.

Good ol' single-link DVI and USB 2.0 on the back.

Light Ridge in all its glory, along with a Broadcom BCM57761, Fresco Logic FL1100, Parade PS161 and a TI USB audio chip. (The back of the PCB is very barren, just two tiny chips on there along with a week 50, 2012 date code.)

 

[ToniCH]

Having the sole Thunderbolt port on the front is peculiar

Indeed, one would think the TB port is the one truly permanent connection in the dock and thus should belong to the back - like in all (?) other docks on the market. I cannot figure out one reason why one would disconnect and reconnect it so often it would need to be on the front?? Cable management too... 🧐

I'll bet the designer wanted to show off the cool TB logo not thinking it through. Or maybe he was thinking of people who only use such docks with laptops. With a short cable from dock front panel to MBP side panel, that would make a little sense lookwise. With a machine like iMac or Mini, not so much.

Otherwise it's a nice design. I see you speed tested it already, very Belkin Express Dock -like figures.

 

[Doq]

I cannot figure out one reason why one would disconnect and reconnect it so often it would need to be on the front??

I think it makes sense, especially in the context of the laptop being plugged in to being in front of the dock, rather than behind-- you don't have a cable (especially a hardwired one) making a 180 and possibly a 270 to plug in to a laptop.

Also if you have multiple of these docks in many locations, you can save a little bit by taking the cable with you alongside the laptop.

 

[ToniCH]

I think it makes sense, especially in the context of the laptop being plugged in to being in front of the dock, rather than behind-- you don't have a cable (especially a hardwired one) making a 180 and possibly a 270 to plug in to a laptop.

Also if you have multiple of these docks in many locations, you can save a little bit by taking the cable with you alongside the laptop.

I agree on the laptop issue.

But... Apple TB cables are so fragile that it would make more sense to invest in multiple cables than wearing out the only one by using it in many locations. Of course nobody yet knew the cables were that bad at the time first gen docks were made. So, back then it might have felt like a good idea.

 

[Amethyst1]

I think it makes sense, especially in the context of the laptop being plugged in to being in front of the dock, rather than behind […]

Agreed, but if the dock is right next to the laptop or iMac (where I like to put my accessories) it’s slightly awkward. Belkin‘s dock was initially shown with the TB port on the front too. But the second port on the back could equally have been used.

Otherwise it's a nice design.

Yeah, really liking the industrial no-nonsense design it has. There’s a sister version including a connector for their MXO2 video capture devices I wasn’t aware of.

But... Apple TB cables are so fragile that it would make more sense to invest in multiple cables than wearing out the only one by using it in many locations.

I’m seeing many TB displays with damaged cables. Fortunately they’re easy to replace.

 

[ToniCH]

I’m seeing many TB displays with damaged cables. Fortunately they’re easy to replace.

Yeah, most of the Apple TB 27" displays I've seen advertised recently here have a damaged or non working cables. It is a rare thing to see one with good cables.

My wife's TB 27" display has the fixed cable still working but the TB port behind the display doesn't work anymore.

 

[ojfd]

Basically, yes. Same enclosure, Thunderbolt controller, SATA controller. But I haven’t cracked it open yet to see if re-adding drives would be possible/feasible.

So, did you finally open it?

 

[Project Alice]

Always wanted to install OpenWRT to MacPro & configure FW ports as ethernet .

If you are going for a custom router\firewall solution, use pfsense or opnsense. And I any Mac Pro is overkill for that.. And not power effiecient. My router is a smaller form factor Lenovo thinkcentre, with a 2nd or 3rd gen i5 running pfsense. Still overkill, but less power hungry. And to completely ruin the power efficiency argument I just made, sitting directly next to said router is my second Mac Pro 5,1 with dual x5675s that runs trueNAS, and Plex with 6 HDDs. Both are plugged into a UPS running 24\7.

I know . But I like strange ideas . Btw, is there a router with FireWire port? At least FW400?

Curious, what do you need FW for on a router? The only ports I use on mine are two out of 5 ethernet ports. FireWire isn't the best medium to run IP out of. It works and supports it, but it isn't as good as using ethernet.

Yank the WiFi module and attach what you want using an mPCIe to PCIe adapter

This is a nice idea. opnsense and pfsense work best with Intel NICs, though. FreeBSD supports realtek ones but they're not particularly reliable. I save all my realtek NICs for client computers, as in not something I have running 24/7.
The main reason I'm not using a mini PC, like a Mac Mini or a Tiny Lenovo thinkcentre (which I have) is due to the fact that you really need at least two ports for router\firewall setup. I suppose a miniPCIe solution could work, though. Granted you get a decent card. About any Intel NIC will do.

 

[ToniCH]

The main reason I'm not using a mini PC, like a Mac Mini or a Tiny Lenovo thinkcentre (which I have) is due to the fact that you really need at least two ports for router\firewall setup.

But, then you can use TB to gigabit ethernet or USB to gigabit ethernet -adapters for the second or even third port. Works as well. Or even a Thunderbolt dock, like discussed above also.

Why 3 ports? For max security you disable remote maintenance possibility for those ports which normal internet traffic is routed and inspected through and use the third port for maintenance and only allow connections from one ip or mac -address to it. I run my servers, routers/firewalls etc. headless so I need to be able to access them remotely even though remote means in this case 2 meters away.

 

[Project Alice]

But, then you can use TB to gigabit ethernet or USB to gigabit ethernet -adapters for the second or even third port. Works as well. Or even a Thunderbolt dock, like discussed above also.

Why 3 ports? For max security you disable remote maintenance possibility for those ports which normal internet traffic is routed and inspected through and use the third port for maintenance and only allow connections from one ip or mac -address to it. I run my servers, routers/firewalls etc. headless so I need to be able to access them remotely even though remote means in this case 2 meters away.

Dongle adapters are terrible. I've tried. Most are also realtek chipsets. I did a lot of experimenting when I set up my pfsense box. Tried using my Tiny thinkcentre with a USB dongle, and was getting under USB 2 speeds. It was a USB 3 dongle in a USB 3 port. My connection is 1Gb/1Gb fiber. Any of the FreeBSD\pfsense\opnsense communities will tell you not to do this.
Thunderbolt could potentially be better, if the NIC had a proper chipset. The only thunderbolt device I own is an M1 iPad Pro. So, no experience there. From what I can tell a lot of "thunderbolt hubs" are actually using USB to function, which could be a problem. Almost any dongle-type device is going to be aimed at consumers, not pros, and certainly wouldn't have had 24/7 server operation in mind.

The only true way to use a device with one port, is VLANs. And that comes with its own set of issues. You'd probably want that one port to be at least 2.5Gb. You'll also need at least one layer 3 switch capable of handling the VLAN to the rest of the network. I opted for a PC I could install a PCIe card in. Got 4 ports on it.

Mine aren't headless, I have a USB powered KVM with a little 15" Dell LCD and a keyboard. It's really only there for troubleshooting and making sure updates are installing as they should.
Most of the time though I can do everything through the webUI's.

 

[Amethyst1]

Dongle adapters are terrible. I've tried. Most are also realtek chipsets.

Apple‘s TB to GigE thingy uses a Broadcom chipset.

From what I can tell a lot of "thunderbolt hubs" are actually using USB to function, which could be a problem.

This applies to TB3/TB4 docks with USB-C fallback (Titan Ridge or newer). TB1/TB2 docks use PCIe chipsets, such as Broadcom‘s or Intel‘s for ethernet.

 

[Project Alice]

Apple‘s TB to GigE thingy uses a Broadcom chipset.

Might be better than a Realtek chipset, but still not ideal for FreeBSD based solutions.

This applies to TB3/TB4 docks with USB-C fallback (Titan Ridge or newer). TB1/TB2 docks use PCIe chipsets, such as Broadcom‘s or Intel‘s for ethernet.

That's good to know. I don't have any TB capable devices besides an iPad. But I'm sure I will eventually.

 

[ToniCH]

Might be better than a Realtek chipset, but still not ideal for FreeBSD based solutions.

Ideal or not, Apples TB -adapter is listed compatible with FreeBSD, as are even Power Mac G4 and later PPC stuff, so I hope I am good with my 4 core Mac Mini i7, Apple Thunderbolt adapters, TB docks etc.

 

[Amethyst1]

Ideal or not, Apples TB -adapter is listed compatible with FreeBSD […]

You know you’re spoiled… when you use a Thunderbolt Display as a TB-to-GigE adapter 🤣

 

[ToniCH]

You know you’re spoiled… when you use a Thunderbolt Display as a TB-to-GigE adapter 🤣

One line below that.

I wish I had a TB display and some fast Mac to run it. But, I am still relying on old stuff like iMac 2011. 🤪

 

[Amethyst1]

One line below that.

Yeah, I saw that. I was joking about the TBD‘s GigE also being compatible so you could use one just as a GigE adapter, forgoing the LCD.

I wish I had a TB display and some fast Mac to run it. But, I am still relying on old stuff like iMac 2011. 🤪

I thought your wife had a TBD?

 

[Project Alice]

Ideal or not, Apples TB -adapter is listed compatible with FreeBSD, as are even Power Mac G4 and later PPC stuff, so I hope I am good with my 4 core Mac Mini i7, Apple Thunderbolt adapters, TB docks etc.

Yeah I know it is. I use FreeBSD a lot. It will absolutely run on a G4. But package support is another story. I usually use it as a desktop when macOS isn't an option.

FreeBSD supports Realtek adapters too. They're just not super reliable, especially for a sever environment.
My first pfsense box was an old AMD dualcore, using the onboard NIC, which might've been broadcom, and a PCI NIC, which was Realtek. I had it set up like that for about a year.
I moved to the i5 system for a couple of reasons. The AMD box was an ATX mid-tower, I wanted it smaller. It was a 65W CPU, and it didn't support AES-NI. I think what I have now is an i5-2390T. Lower TDP, AES-NI support, and its a SFF mini-tower. When I was using the AMD box my connection was different. My old ISP gave me around 900Mb~/400Mb~.. That's not to say the symmetrical Gig wouldn't have worked on the AMD setup, I just had changed boxes before getting a new ISP.

That said, I did experiment with USB dongles. Never got a working solution that could handle the connection, or run stable for more than a couple of hours.

Also, not totally relevant to the conversation, but in some of my experimentation just to see if I could.. A PowerMac G4 Mystic (Gigabit) with an xserve G4 NIC as a second port, can indeed do routing\firewall functions with Leopard Server. But you'll only get about 10-20Mbps 😂 Can't imagine it would've been the most secure firewall either.

You probably will be more than fine using that Mac Mini. Just be aware of what adapter you use, and how its connected to the computer.

 

[ToniCH]

Yeah, I saw that. I was joking about the TBD‘s GigE also being compatible so you could use one just as a GigE adapter, forgoing the LCD.


I thought your wife had a TBD?

Yes she does, the TBD with non working TB-connector. She also has a office/study room of her own. The 4G modem, router, wifi, switches or any other stuff related to this is in a different room (mine) and she connects to it all with wifi. So, I really cannot hang any networking stuff to her TBD.

 

[Amethyst1]

That's good to know.

To elaborate, (most?) TB1/TB2 docks only have the audio chip on USB but everything else is PCIe.

 

[Amethyst1]

My latest conquests, all related to one theme (oh, what have I done to myself? ).

I'll bet the designer wanted to show off the cool TB logo not thinking it through.

You mean like this? The cool logo totally saves the creaky all-plastic enclosure 😂

Why is this thing not bus-powered? (Maybe it secretly is?)

And they were generous enough to throw in a cable — all thirty centimetres of it

The internals are pretty boring, with this device having been manufactured in week 43, 2013: Port Ridge > PCIe 2.0 ×1 > ASMedia ASM1061, so a single SSD already runs into a wall at ≈390 MB/s. It shows up as PC Partner Limited H107 on the TB bus.