eBay dispute. Please help.

[nicnic77]

Hi all,

I sold me Macbook on eBay yesterday with some pre-installed software and no discs.

I shipped it special delivery with £500 insurance and today the buyer received it, but lodged the following PayPal dispute"

"COMPUTER DOES NOT TURN ON ALSO SOFTWARE ADVERTISED WAS NOT INCLUDED"

This is complicated by the fact that this is my first activity on eBay and I have no feedback. Consequently, a PayPal policy comes into effect, which means that PayPal do not release the buyers funds until the seller leaves positive feedback, for any fraudulently looking auctions, e.g. one for a lot of money.

I have just replied to the buyer explaining that the laptop was fine when I sent it, suggested that he resets the PRAM and explained that the discs where not included as per the auction's description. I also asked him to call me immediately, which he did.

After the call it was clear that he'd tried everything to power on the MacBook, but it was completely dead. After I prompted him about the quality of the wrapping he told me he would have wrapped it in a box, which I foolishly didn't do. I packed it in a padded envelope with 3-4 layers of bubble wrap, which at the time felt completely fine, but in hind sight I think I cocked up big style. He also probed me about the lack of discs and what would happen in the result of the hard disc crashing. I just said that the auction stated no discs where included.

I'm really worried about several things here! Firstly, if the buyer claims the packaging was poor then I won't be able to claim on the insurance. Secondly, I'm worried about the software disc issue. Thirdly, I'm worried this guy is playing me.

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[kastenbrust]

1) If he claims its broken, ask for it back, and pay the postage...you have this right..check Ebay rules

2) To claim insurance you need to have posted it in a box with at least 6 inches of foam around the Macbook on all sides, so yeah the buyer is right here

3) The buyer should have read the selling description properly about the software, thats definately his fault

 

[mrfrosty]

Ive been played before on the bay too. I sold someone a motherboard, 2 weeks later i got a "retraction". By that time i had thrown away the tracking reciept. Basically i lost all the money. It was only £30 though but paypal were intolerable to deal with. They refused to tell me why the retraction came, because of "data protection". You sound lucky because you buyer is talking to you so at least you can get the goods back (probably) and issue a refund. Then at least you can get it fixed and sell it again.

Oh and if you read this "R_Preece" if i ever bump into you i'll be sure to get my £30 out of you.

 

[nicnic77]

1)
If he claims its broken, ask for it back, and pay the postage...you have this right..check Ebay rules

I will do this, then at least I can take it into the Apple store and see if it repairable.

1)
2) To claim insurance you need to have posted it in a box with at least 6 inches of foam around the Macbook on all sides, so yeah the buyer is right here

Yeah, I'm 100% at fault here! Stupid, stupid, stupid - It didn't even cross my mind this could happen, I've sent so much stuff through the post in the past!

1)
3) The buyer should have read the selling description properly about the software, thats definately his fault

Ok, thanks.

 

[madmaxmedia]

Basically everything is laid out right there. You are covered on the software, but that is obviously the least of the problems.

Shipping a notebook computer in a padded envelope really wasn't a good idea at all. Even if I have the original Apple box, I will typically double-box it just to be on the safe side. Maybe that's not what caused the problem, who knows.

If he's a positive feedback EBayer and seems legit after you've talked to him, then really the only option is to have him send the computer back, and then you refund him for the purchase price plus the return shipping.

If I bought a MacBook on EBay and it was shipped in an envelope, I would be worried that the seller is playing me. I'm certainly not accusing you of anything, but based on the circumstances you should get the computer back and give him a refund.

Whether you can get insurance payment for the damage doesn't involve him. Hopefully you can get it to boot up by fiddling around with it. If it was the HD, then the computer still should have booted up to an error screen. If the computer was truly padded on all sides, then as long as the envelope wasn't ripped then it still should have been okay. I don't know if you taped up the ends though to prevent the MacBook from sliding.

1) If he claims its broken, ask for it back, and pay the postage...you have this right..check Ebay rules

2) To claim insurance you need to have posted it in a box with at least 6 inches of foam around the Macbook on all sides, so yeah the buyer is right here

3) The buyer should have read the selling description properly about the software, thats definately his fault

 

[HiFiGuy528]

I have experience with Pay Pal dispute process. All commuications between you and buyer MUST be done on Pay Pal. Pay Pal should have given you a min. of $200 converage, but may be more. See us a link to your listing and I can tell you what you have. Pay Pal will cover UP TO coverage amount. If you bought shipping insurance and it is more than Pay Pal's coverage, you can claim through shipping company. KEEP IN MIND that Pay Pal WILL NOT pay you if the shipping company pays you. So you have to decide which is better for you to claim.

 

[AppleMatt]

Hi. I've been selling on eBay UK for 8 years.

Firstly, did he contact you before opening the dispute?

Regardless of the above, I'd recommend saying you've had a think about it and he's clearly not happy with what he has bought and you're not happy with him having it, so ask he boxes it up and returns it. You will pay the postage.

When it's back, check it's the same machine (serial number etc), then check for sabotage, then try and power it on. If it all looks legit, refund him + his costs, and take it as a lesson learnt. If he refuses to send it back, or it's a different machine, you're screwed and will probably have to cut your losses (don't ever look to eBay or PayPal for help or you'll be sorely disappointed). You could try a letter to him stating you'll claim for it, but he probably knows you won't bother.

AppleMatt

 

[nicnic77]

Shipping a notebook computer in a padded envelope really wasn't a good idea at all.

Yep, I'm having a few stupid moments of late, not least managing to dint my new MBP Unibody within the first few weeks! Quoted £150 to fix :-s

I didn't tape up the sides, but there was plenty of padding, or so it seemed. But, God knows what happens at those Royal Mail depots. 'Special Delivery' obviously carries no extra handling care!

Do you think this could be more serious like the screen has blown?

 

[nicnic77]

I have experience with Pay Pal dispute process. All commuications between you and buyer MUST be done on Pay Pal. Pay Pal should have given you a min. of $200 converage, but may be more. See us a link to your listing and I can tell you what you have. Pay Pal will cover UP TO coverage amount. If you bought shipping insurance and it is more than Pay Pal's coverage, you can claim through shipping company. KEEP IN MIND that Pay Pal WILL NOT pay you if the shipping company pays you. So you have to decide which is better for you to claim.

Here is the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&item=320337166262

 

[drewsof07]

If it were me, I would ask the buyer for pictures of the machine, and the serial number before going any further.
I sold a copy of Tiger here awhile back and the guy WHOA overpaid for it (should've been my first indication he was playing me) Then he gets it and tells me the disk is snapped and wants a full refund because he had to throw it away and can't send it back. I asked for pictures of the broken disk to prove his claim, and needless to say I didn't hear from him again.

 

[AppleMatt]

but paypal were intolerable to deal with.

Seconded. Absolutely appalling companies. When my credit card was cloned (which I'm very protective over), one of the first questions the credit card company asked me was 'have you used it on PayPal before?'

In disputes they've come back with truly bizarre responses. On one occasion, both myself and the buyer in the same dispute emailed to say we'd mutually withdrawn, I re-listed the (one of a kind) item and provided the link, but they still didn't refund the fees and came back broken-english replies; essentially bullying the money out of you by making it impossible to communicate with them.

They've also been recently smashed down in Australia for double-dipping on fees (eBay/PayPal) - if only that would happen over here. It's a shame, because it used to be so good to sell on there. Now sellers of small low-value items are suffering with the relentless fee structures etc.

AppleMatt

 

[AppleMatt]

Here is the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&item=320337166262

I'd usually strongly recommend against ever putting the serial number in an auction, but if he is playing you this could turn out to be a golden bullet.

AppleMatt

 

[kastenbrust]

Seconded. Absolutely appalling companies. When my credit card was cloned (which I'm very protective over), one of the first questions the credit card company asked me was 'have you used it on PayPal before?'

In disputes they've come back with truly bizarre responses. On one occasion, both myself and the buyer in the same dispute emailed to say we'd mutually withdrawn, I re-listed the (one of a kind) item and provided the link, but they still didn't refund the fees and came back broken-english replies; essentially bullying the money out of you by making it impossible to communicate with them.

They've also been recently smashed down in Australia for double-dipping on fees (eBay/PayPal) - if only that would happen over here. It's a shame, because it used to be so good to sell on there. Now sellers of small low-value items are suffering with the relentless fee structures etc.

AppleMatt

Paypal shouldn't even exist in Europe due to consumer protection and monopoly laws but it does, its so unfair that theres no official alternative, they suck, especially if your a seller, and now even buyers who spend more than £300 ($500) have to do stupid authentication of address stuff!!! what a waste of time, it takes 2 months for the authentication letter to arrive, and you get no warning before commiting to an Ebay purchase that your nearing your £300 pre-authentication spend limit. So basically you are guaranteed an unpaid item strike. And if I have a credit card i think my bank knows where i live anyway thanks. Its the sole and only reason for the downfall Ebay has suffered over recent years, and im glad its loosing money every year. ok rant over.

 

[nicnic77]

I'd usually strongly recommend against ever putting the serial number in an auction, but if he is playing you this could turn out to be a golden bullet.

AppleMatt

Well perhaps I've arguably done something right

 

[taylorwilsdon]

It probably is broken due to insufficient packaging. You violated ebay's terms by including pirated software on the computer, so you won't find much recourse there.

Frankly, I can't say anything but that you deserved it. I'm sympathetic, sure, but the buyer is being completely reasonable and within his rights to do this. I would be pissed off if I received a computer in a frickin' padded envelope.

 

[ashjamben]

theres plenty of other advice on here, but this is my advice:

contact him by phone and ask him to pack the item up again, and ask him to pack it alot better than you did yourself and offer to pay for the postage, packaging and maybe something for his trouble of going out and buying the packaging.

after that i'd apologise to him and say you can't sell him the laptop. cut your losses and get it fixed (if it is indeed broken) and sell again.

you have to be careful when packing things with royal mail. i live near a post office and i often just see the guys throwing things into the back of vansm so i always charge abit more for postage and go out and buy s**t loads of bubble wrap and cardboard.

 

[Unspeaked]

theres plenty of other advice on here, but this is my advice:

contact him by phone and ask him to pack the item up again, and ask him to pack it alot better than you did yourself and offer to pay for the postage, packaging and maybe something for his trouble of going out and buying the packaging.

after that i'd apologise to him and say you can't sell him the laptop. cut your losses and get it fixed (if it is indeed broken) and sell again.

you have to be careful when packing things with royal mail. i live near a post office and i often just see the guys throwing things into the back of vansm so i always charge abit more for postage and go out and buy s**t loads of bubble wrap and cardboard.

This advice hits the nail on the head.

About the best you can hope for at this point is to be where you started, only with a broken laptop and out return postage costs. From there, you can try to relist it broken, fix it and relist is repaired, or whatever.

Because of eBay/PayPal's system, all the cards for any dispute are in the buyers hands, and you're always at the mercy of the buyer.

Personally, though, it sounds to me like he's probably sincere. It was probably damaged in transit and he probably didn't bother reading your line about discs, as most buyers skip over all but the most basic information (which is where you get people spending hundreds of dollars for a PS3 box and such).

 

[HiFiGuy528]

From what I can see in your listing, you are FULLY protected by Pay Pal. You MUST read and follow the dispute process step by step. DO NOT communicate with the buyer by any other methods other than Pay Pal dispute system. Each email correspondence should be review by Pay Pal on their system and process. It will take some time. If you fail to follow the steps, you will NOT be reimbursed by Pay Pal.

 

[Unspeaked]

From what I can see in your listing, you are FULLY protected by Pay Pal. You MUST read and follow the dispute process step by step. DO NOT communicate with the buyer by any other methods other than Pay Pal dispute system. Each email correspondence should be review by Pay Pal on their system and process. It will take some time. If you fail to follow the steps, you will NOT be reimbursed by Pay Pal.

You are so wrong...

 

[reclusivemonkey]

Google SO needs to go after eBay. I used them for a few items before they started to treat their customers (buyers and sellers) like dirt. I wouldn't go there now if my life depended on it. Sorry I don't have anything more helpful than that :-S

 

[Unspeaked]

Google SO needs to go after eBay. I used them for a few items before they started to treat their customers (buyers and sellers) like dirt. I wouldn't go there now if my life depended on it. Sorry I don't have anything more helpful than that :-S

Google went after eBay's payment system - the only glimmer of hope sellers have had in recent memory as far as competitors go - and landed on their behinds.

(The book is still open on that one, of course, but it isn't a very happy story thus far...)

I think there's something to be said for eBay when a great many of the buyers and sellers on the site are both unhappy with them, have been for ages, continue to dislike changes being made over the course of months and even years yet STILL use the site. That shows what a stranglehold eBay has on the online auction business.

It was one of those once-in-a-lifetime perfect storms that gave it its power (like Microsoft with the OS thing) and I think it has an even safer cushion on its position than Windows does because buyers will never leave so long as the sellers are there and sellers will never leave so long as the buyers are there, etc, etc, etc.