ebay macbook software dispute - please help!

Discussion in 'Buying Tips and Advice' started by mattdnb, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. mattdnb macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    #1
    so my girlfriend wanted a macbook for christmas with adobe photoshop, illustrator, and all the other CS software, but specifically photoshop and illustrator. also she wanted ms office w/ outlook, excel, word, access, etc. i search for macbooks on ebay with these specific applications and would not consider ones without them. so i win an auction that stated plainly that it had all these applications (and many more). got it on tuesday and it's in really good shape cosmetically and functionally. so i was happy about that. but when i started poking around in the applications, i couldn't find illustrator, outlook or access! emailed the guy and he responded quickly on how i might find the applications (i'm not the most mac savvy). so i tried to find them using his methods (namely, using the magnifying glass which i didn't know about). searching outlook and access i get nothing. searching illustrator i did see various mostly empty folders w/ settings, "read me" files, etc....but no illustrator application. so it seems as if illustrator was indeed once installed but is no more. so i respond and the guy is now MIA, not returning any of my emails. here's my dilemma: i like the laptop, it runs/looks great. but it just doesn't have the software as advertised. now my girl can probably live w/o the outlook + access. but the illustrator is essential to why she wanted the laptop. the problem is, if i file a dispute i believe paypal will want me to simply return it and get the $$ back. but what i really want is for the guy to send me the software that i know he has (he auctioned off the cds/licences to these programs seperately). heck, i'd even settle for him sending me the adobe illustrator and not ms office. but he's now not responding to my emails. any ideas?? :confused:
     
  2. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #2
    You tried to buy software without a license, and yet you got scammed. I have absolutely no sympathy.
     
  3. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    #3
    Ouch

    ---

    OP: In addition to the fact that you tried to buy a "fully loaded" computer, you had to have seen this coming if you did an ounce of research. I blame the GF for this one because if she wanted a mac then I would have hoped she would have done her homework.

    Outlook: Does not exist for Mac. The replacement is Entourage.
    Access: Does not exactly exist for Mac.
    Illustrator: Exists for a Mac but you were clearly scammed.

    You can call Adobe and report the seller. Advise the seller you are doing just this, however, my guess is it'll be a pot meet kettle situation. The auction probably didn't advertise the Mac would come with the appropriate install discs and therefore you had to have known (cue common sense) that the licenses weren't going to be valid. What would you have done if the Mac had issues and you had to reinstall the OS? The software would be gone.

    While your gift is very sweet, you cannot simply get thousands of dollars in computer equipment and software for virtually nothing on eBay (or anywhere) legally.

    My other recommendation would be to return the Mac to the seller, before doing so file a dispute with PayPal. Next time do your research before you buy and remember, caveat emptor.

    PS: Paragraphs and punctuation, exist on a Mac and PC.
     
  4. mattdnb thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 12, 2008
    #4
    i asked the guy before i bought it if the software was purchased legally and legitimately and he responded that it indeed was. he purchased with a student discount. if i am buying a laptop that has legal/licenced software on it, please explain to me how i bought w/o a licence? the software was paid for, it is just under a different user now.
     
  5. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #5

    No, you don't buy the software license when you essentially get an installed copy of the software on the machine. You don't have the EULA, the transferred registration, the serial number, or even a legitimate receipt... You have no leg to stand on.

    Paypal and eBay will not stand by either buyer or seller in this instance. Your best hope is to buy a licensed copy of Illustrator.

    In fact, with an edu copy of Illustrator, he's not even supposed to sell it on unless it's to a registered student or teacher.
     
  6. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    #6
    This is exactly the case.
    Semantics my friend. Does this computer come with and will this computer come with the install discs can yield two very different answers and possibly dissuade you from buying all together.

    Now let's review again, Outlook doesn't come on a Mac. If the seller said IN WRITING, that this computer came with Outlook, that may be your ONLY leg to stand on. But again, you made a critical error that will end up costing you some additional cash no doubt. Did the Mac come with the Tiger/Leopard install discs?
     
  7. mattdnb thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    #7
    Ok, point taken, I should have known and done more research; caveat emptor indeed. Now I'm just wondering why ebay allows these types of auctions to continue. Believe me, my purchase is not the exception but rather the rule on ebay. There are *multiple* auctions marketed and commenced in the same manner each and every day. And yes all the aforementioned software programs were advertised IN WRITING in the auction.

    That being said, sure, in terms of the Outlook and Access software not even existing on Macs, and the Illustrator not being installed, I got hosed. I got scammed by all accounts. But let me explain something to you guys: The auctions for macbooks on ebay with or without extra software go for about the same price, all else being the same. A macbook with no extra software will be bid only slightly less and more importantly is a lot less common. So from that standpoint it doesn't really cost me much. Furthermore, what was I supposed to do had I known, demand that the guy remove the software programs before he shipped?

    Yes, it came with all the install discs that came with the laptop originally from Apple. It also came with the charger. It came with the remote. It even came with the original box. All the more reason I thought this guy was trustworthy. But I guess as fendol stated, I didn't spend time roaming the net to know that this had potential to blow up in my face.

    ..So after carefully reviewing your responses and advice I have decided to purchase the lastest version of Illustrator and just leave the guy negative feedback. Contrary to what some may I think I am generally a good person and I have no problem paying for software. In fact, I've never bought anything computer related used. I simply thought purchasing a used laptop with software on ebay was a legal, environmentally responsible, cost conscious, and normal thing to do. This was an honest mistake from a guy who just wanted to get a nice present for his girlfriend for Christmas. Thank you for your responses and Merry Christmas.

    PS: Tough crowd on the punctuation thing. But I am happy to oblige as you may have noticed. And by the way, this site is littered with bad punctuation so good luck getting that cleaned up. Also, while we're on the subject, you guys (save BV) may want to capitalize your names...just saying...

    Matt
     
  8. mdgolom macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    #8

    Is it possible that the computer is set up for Bootcamp or parallels and the software exists under Windows? This could explain why Access would exist.

    Also, I've found most people who advertise computers with software on eBay normally say it doesn't include installation disks.
     
  9. socco macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    #9
    Yes he does. That's part of what he bought. He bought the computer, and he bought those programs.

    I disagree. He bought something that was not as described. He's not the one responsible for the description, the seller is. He would most likely be able to get his money back, but it might not be worth the hassle.
     
  10. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    #10
    mattdnb, pot meet kettle. ;)
    All I wanted was paragraphs. Good luck in your future eBay auctions.
     
  11. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #11
    No. An installed copy of a piece of software is not a legitimate license to trade. Let's be absolutely clear on this and it's the main reason why we have specific rules about this in our forum's marketplace. I've also had to manage site licenses dealing with FAST, Adobe and Quark's EULAs... there is no provision for a legitimate transfer of software without the necessary documentation and installation disc.
     
  12. socco macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    #12
    Why do you assume (based on the item's description) that the necessary documentation and installation disc were not going to be included. It's the seller's responsibility to legally transfer that software to the buyer. If he doesn't, as in this case, then the buyer absolutely has recourse with eBay/PayPal as the item was not as described.
     
  13. castanzarules macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Location:
    A2
    #13
    On an unrelated note...

    I've learned quite a bit about software licenses, EULA's, ebay auctions etc. just from reading this thread.

    Thanks guys!
     
  14. winninganthem macrumors 6502a

    winninganthem

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    #14
    All those apps preinstalled on those systems and sold on eBay were pirated in the first place anyway.
     
  15. FieryFurnace macrumors 6502

    FieryFurnace

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    Sep 19, 2008
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    #15
    That ebay seller sold a MacBook with the software to someone and then ALSO sold the cds/licenses seperately to someone else,... :rolleyes:
     
  16. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    Jul 4, 2004
    #16

    Because the buyer said in the first post:

    :rolleyes:
     
  17. SDLSteve macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    #17
    File a dispute with paypal and see where it goes. It would be helpful to see your ebay. Unlike blue velvet, I do have sympathy for your plight if you purchased the macbook with an understanding that the software was included (with the implication that you would be given the license). He seems to want to make his point of software rules yada yada yada without knowing all the facts

    You have two things going for you. One you have the original auction description and two you have the email communication that has asked for the software.

    My assumption was that the seller sold the software AFTER you purchased the macbook leaving you without anything.

    The worst thing that could happen would be that you would be asked to send the laptop back but who knows.

    Good luck.
     
  18. SDLSteve macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    #18
    It could if you have a separate windows boot. Again, it would be helpful to all if we could see the actual auction link. We are all speculating on what it actually said.

    I also hope you are not listening to any music that may have been left on the computer because that would be illegal too.
     
  19. DesignerOnMac macrumors 6502a

    DesignerOnMac

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #19
    The original owner of the software, (seller), owns the licenses for all software. It is NOT transferable! Period!

    You have to purchase and install all software....
     
  20. alphaod macrumors Core

    alphaod

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    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #20
    I want to point out that you can open a dispute again the seller for selling you a computer with software without the install discs.
     
  21. DesignerOnMac macrumors 6502a

    DesignerOnMac

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #21
    I have seen where eBay has pulled an auction because of software being loaded on a desktop or laptop computer.

    Saying that however, he could press the seller through PayPal, etc., but he has no legs to stand on with preinstalled software on a computer being sold.
     
  22. SDLSteve macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    #22
    WRONG!!!!

    Adobe allows for transfer of ownership. Look it up for yourself.

    I can not speak for Microsoft as I haven't looked into it but I won't show my ignorance and making a blanket statement for ALL software.
     
  23. alphaod macrumors Core

    alphaod

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    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #23
    That's like saying the original purchaser of a car is the only person who can drive it.
     

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