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What if you shoot someone during the journalistic activities?

A crime is a crime. The shield laws makes "not revealing the source" not a crime. It does not excuse other crimes.

egad buddy .. i think you're taking this a little too personally and going a bit far here

guessing you probably haven't had much life experience quite yet if you're getting into the shooting people extreme on a story like this .. what's next - the hitler analogies?
 
I don't think Gizmodo is in the wrong in anyway. They knew it was lost property and purchased it, which would be illegal. However, they had every intention of giving it to Apple. They simply took the time before Apple asked for it to document the crap out of it, not illegal. As soon as Apple asked for it back Gizmodo happily gave it up.

So really they paid $5,000 for a story, not a phone since they gave the phone up willingly.
 
That depends on if Apple confirms that the phone is, in fact, theirs (which they did). At this point, I do see problems for Gizmodo possibly, given that once Apple did identify it as such, they should have taken said articles related to the phone itself, down.

With regards to "trade secrets", Wikipedia has this: "In the United States, trade secrets are not protected by law in the same manner as trademarks or patents."

Now, granted, Wikipedia can be freely-edited, so the accuracy of that statement can be disputed. There's also a reference to the two conditions under which someone can potentially be held criminally responsible for trade secret theft/revelation, with regards to the Economic Espionage Act of 1996 "which makes the theft or misappropriation of a trade secret a federal crime. This law contains two provisions criminalizing two sorts of activity. The first, 18 U.S.C. § 1831(a), criminalizes the theft of trade secrets to benefit foreign powers. The second, 18 U.S.C. § 1832, criminalizes their theft for commercial or economic purposes."

However, I think the second law would more apply to the individual who found it and sold it to Gizmodo, since he received financial compensation for the device.

I guess someone could also try to make the argument that Gizmodo did it for financial purposes, given the publicity it brought in, but that seems like a stretch...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_secret

That phone includes hundreds of new patents.
 
there's 30 people on the sidewalk .. who am i going to turn the money over to? .. "oh yeah thanks .. why yes i did lose $25"

don't get me wrong - i'm all for doing the right thing .. it's just that sometimes the lines are a little fuzzy and you can't just simply apply a universal "X" is the right thing to do

in this particular case - the issue seems more to be about evading apple's super secrecy to get a story out to people more than hungry to eat it up .. what's the difference between this and a national enquirer style rag or TMZ with somewhat questionable paparazzi photos or videos

Intention is not an issue in the land of law. You either did make reasonable effort to find the owner, or not.

If you found a wallet with the guy's business card in it, you'd better call him to return it. Otherwise, you are a thief.

And an iPhone has the contact app, phone, SMS, email, facebook.....and owner's full name......

If you are a "journalist" or blogger and you want the story so badly that you are willing to break the law to get the story, then don't complain when you end up in jail.
 
What does "seeking to do good" have to do with journalism? Journalists are narcissists not saviors of humanity. They want attention and awards and recognition. They are not doing anonymous good deeds.

This is a silly statement. There's no possible way you could make this determination about all journalists.
 
I don't think Gizmodo is in the wrong in anyway. They knew it was lost property and purchased it, which would be illegal. However, they had every intention of giving it to Apple. They simply took the time before Apple asked for it to document the crap out of it, not illegal. As soon as Apple asked for it back Gizmodo happily gave it up.

So really they paid $5,000 for a story, not a phone since they gave the phone up willingly.

The law considers actions, not intentions.
 
The city of New York's law enforcement agencies puts $25 dollars lost on the street at the bottom of priorities.

The city of New York's law enforcement agencies puts a multi-billion dollar future phone product at the top of it's priorities.

erm .. not quite .. more like the stability of certain multi-billion financial firms that happen to be under investigation by the SEC

the SEC on the other hand seems to put surfing pr0n at it's highest priority .. perhaps if they had a better phone with a reliable and fast connection
 
If the alleged crime is clearly irrelevant to the journalism (say, shooting someone) then that makes sense. If the alleged crime was committed during the journalistic activities, that's a harder call, especially for such unclear crimes (purchasing possibly stolen goods for journalistic purposes and waiting two weeks to return them). I myself don't want a system where journalistic protections can be evaded if you can find just the right crime the journalist committed in pursuit of his journalism. After all, the guy still has to go to court; he just gets a subpoena rather than a warrant.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.369:

That is what Shield is designed to do. It does not protect a journalist who is suspected of committing a crime themselves, nor does it entitle them to special rights to help cover up said crime. In this case requesting that he provide the law enforcement agents with his computers via subpoena (of which he could refuse and be held in contempt for) provides a situation where he could very easily erase the system and make the data unrecoverable. It would be equivalent of the police contacting an escaped convict and telling him they would be over to pick him up in 30 minutes.

In your argument if a journalist was charged with a crime to circumvent that any lawyer would most likely be able to get any evidence found thrown out once they were acquitted of the crime. And obviously if he was not acquitted of a crime then he is legally responsible for those actions regardless if they were committed while performing journalistic activities.

To turn that around would you like to live in a world where a "journalist" broke into your house and bugged your room to catch you cheating on your wife to be protected because he was acting with journalistic intent?
 
egad buddy .. i think you're taking this a little too personally and going a bit far here

guessing you probably haven't had much life experience quite yet if you're getting into the shooting people extreme on a story like this .. what's next - the hitler analogies?

Personal attack is the first sign of weakness in argument.

Using extreme examples is an easy way to judge whether an arguement is valid. If you think shooting people during journalism is not excusable, then stealing (or buying stolen goods) is not excusable, because the language of shield law does not distinguish them.
 
If those of you siding with the police on this one, should spend a few minutes reading about the "Pentagon Papers" story from the 1971.

In that case, the New York times obtained and published highly classified documents about the Vietnam war. Clearly everyone at the newspaper knew the documents were classified and dissemination of them was unlawful.

However, nobody's home was ever raided in that case or was anyone charged with a crime. Furthermore, the Supreme Court stated that NY Times could not be prevented from publishing their story.

Obviously, I don't know the complete facts in this case, but it can be easily argued that Gizmodo didn't purchase the phone as much as they purchased the "story" from the person who found the phone.

Finally, Jason Chen is an employee of Gizmodo, therefore I don't see he can be charged with a crime, when it was his employer who obviously paid for the phone.
 
I don't think Gizmodo is in the wrong in anyway. They knew it was lost property and purchased it, which would be illegal. However, they had every intention of giving it to Apple. They simply took the time before Apple asked for it to document the crap out of it, not illegal. As soon as Apple asked for it back Gizmodo happily gave it up.

So really they paid $5,000 for a story, not a phone since they gave the phone up willingly.


Except that all evidence is that they didn't intend to give it back to Apple, until they asked for it back.
 
Obviously, I don't know the complete facts in this case, but it can be easily argued that Gizmodo didn't purchase the phone as much as they purchased the "story" from the person who found the phone.

They could have bought the "story" without taking possession of the phone.
 
Intention is not an issue in the land of law. You either did make reasonable effort to find the owner, or not.

[...]

If you are a "journalist" or blogger and you want the story so badly that you are willing to break the law to get the story, then don't complain when you end up in jail.
+1

People forget is that that phone is worth billions of dollars. Or, put another way, by doing what they did they gave the competition a billion-dollar head start.

It it were a billion-dollar diamond that was the most famous thing in the world, and some guy pocketed it and later sold it to a blogger, no one would claim "journalistic protection".

Fanboys need to get out of the reality distortion field and realize that in the real world, real laws apply to real people. Just because we all read the blog post and were all tittilated, it doesn't suddenly make this guy a "journalist" who is subject to the protections of reporters who do stories about the mafia.

If they stretch the journalistic protection law to cover this crap, that law will become a farce.
 
Intention is not an issue in the land of law. You either did make reasonable effort to find the owner, or not.

If you found a wallet with the guy's business card in it, you'd better call him to return it. Otherwise, you are a thief.

And an iPhone has the contact app, phone, SMS, email, facebook.....and owner's full name......

If you are a "journalist" or blogger and you want the story so badly that you are willing to break the law to get the story, then don't complain when you end up in jail.

sure .. and i've done that with a wallet, and had that done for me as well (hard to board a plane when you leave a wallet in the cab) .. it's the right thing to do, but not necessarily the expected thing to do .. i wouldn't equate it to theivery though particularly if i just looked at it, took some pictures of it and wrote about it to people that were interested in a wallet with someone's info .. i mean what would you do if you found Bill Gates' driver's license in a cab? you wouldn't tell anyone about it, or perhaps take a picture of it?

paying for the view and responsibility of dealing with the "lost" (not necessarily stolen) device is the crux of the issue here
 
If those of you siding with the police on this one, should spend a few minutes reading about the "Pentagon Papers" story from the 1971.

In that case, the New York times obtained and published highly classified documents about the Vietnam war. Clearly everyone at the newspaper knew the documents were classified and dissemination of them was unlawful.

However, nobody's home was ever raided in that case or was anyone charged with a crime. Furthermore, the Supreme Court stated that NY Times could not be prevented from publishing their story.

Obviously, I don't know the complete facts in this case, but it can be easily argued that Gizmodo didn't purchase the phone as much as they purchased the "story" from the person who found the phone.

Finally, Jason Chen is an employee of Gizmodo, therefore I don't see he can be charged with a crime, when it was his employer who obviously paid for the phone.

A possible argument that may or may not hold water if Giz is actually protected under the law. However, even after "purchasing" the story, they disclosed trade secrets about the device which is most likely illegal.
 
One of my favorite quotes from the film Casino, regarding the slots manager's failure to swiftly react to an obvious scam when players hit the jackpot on three machines within the span of a few minutes. Sam Rothstein (played by Robert Deniro) berates the slots manager for his incompetence and then fires him.

"If you didn't know you're too dumb, if you did know then you're in on it. Either way, you're out."

Some things are too dumb to exist. Gawker is one of those things.
 
If those of you siding with the police on this one, should spend a few minutes reading about the "Pentagon Papers" story from the 1971.

In that case, the New York times obtained and published highly classified documents about the Vietnam war. Clearly everyone at the newspaper knew the documents were classified and dissemination of them was unlawful.

No, it is not unlawful to publish classified information (except in time of war, or if it hurts national security).

http://uchicagolaw.typepad.com/faculty/2006/05/classified_info.html

It is against government rules to leak classified information.

So, that case shows exactly what the shield law is for - to protect the source.
 
Personal attack is the first sign of weakness in argument.

Using extreme examples is an easy way to judge whether an arguement is valid. If you think shooting people during journalism is not excusable, then stealing (or buying stolen goods) is not excusable, because the language of shield law does not distinguish them.

sorry - not a personal attack at all .. just a guess based on what I've seen and experienced .. personally i find over-defensiveness and muted negative implications to be much weaker in an argument than a direct statement of opinion
 
No they also contacted Apple and Apple had been contacted by the guy who found it.

The finder called Apple support. Hardly an attempt at contact and who knows if it is true since it is coming from Gizmodo. If it is true, Apple know who the finder is unless the finder didn't leave any contact information, in which case there was no reasonable effort.

I don't know if Gizmodo contacted Apple first.
 
what would you do if you found Bill Gates' driver's license in a cab? you wouldn't tell anyone about it, or perhaps take a picture of it?

paying for the view and responsibility of dealing with the "lost" (not necessarily stolen) device is the crux of the issue here

Do whatever you want, but don't complain if you end up in jail.
 
sorry - not a personal attack at all .. just a guess based on what I've seen and experienced .. personally i find over-defensiveness and muted negative implications to be much weaker in an argument than a direct statement of opinion

Well stated about your own posts.
 
About this "journalist" issue:

Ok I just did some research and:

1. Bloggers aren't part of the protected class in the shield law:

http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/09/shield-law-definition-of-journalist-gets-professionalized/

2. The shield law still wouldn't apply because most likely the subject of the investigation is Chen/Gizmodo/Gawker and even if they were found to be Journalists, the shield law's main intent is to protect the press from divulging sources by search. Not the protect the journalists themselves if they have committed a crime. In this case, either purchasing stolen property or divulging trade secrets or both.

Huh? The author of that article is concerned with "student journalists as well as bloggers with a day job"--not people like Jason Chen.

What does "seeking to do good" have to do with journalism? Journalists are narcissists not saviors of humanity. They want attention and awards and recognition. They are not doing anonymous good deeds.

I agree, sort of. As much as I disapprove of his actions, and as much as I hate soiling the term, I do think Jason Chen is a "journalist." In any case, I don't think this is the crux of the defense. This is about stolen property.
 
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