EFF Flew a Banner Over Apple Park During Last Apple Event to Protest CSAM Plans

[quarkysg]

So what? They're not legally required to scan anyway.

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that Apple wouldn't want to be accused on not doing anything when questioned by the authorities when it comes to storing CSAM materials in their properties.

 

[Vlad Soare]

The law is clear. The relevant paragraphs have been posted earlier. They must report it if they find it, but they are not under any obligation to actually search for it.
Now, if they want to be more catholic than the Pope and do more than the law requires, for no other reason than to show off their virtue and brag about how much they "care about the children", that's a different story. And in that case, I think there are many other illegal things which are worse than CSAM and would make good virtue-signalling material. Once you cross this line, there's no reason to stop at CSAM.

 

[mrex]

Well, gee, if you're a CHILD and living with your parents, I think parents should know whether their CHILD is receiving sexually explicit photos, regardless of who is sending them.

But I wasn't even talking about the Messages part of Apple's plan, but rather the CSAM scanning. That's where all the conspiracy theories are coming from.

No, the parents have no rights to violate the child’s/youth’s privacy. The right way is not to add surveillance but teach them use phones safely.

Also nowadays there are online doctors and a teen may want to use those services rather than letting parents knowing about it. Also ”a child” may be 17yo youth and parents should not be able to access the person messages or whatever.. Also child/youth has rights their privacy.

Then there is another point, living in countries where you could be hanged easily. Everything Apple is building now it just wrong. They were thinking only about PR (how marvelous we are protecting our kids, just buy a new phone for them!) , but they didnt think the whole picture at all.

CSAM scanning isnt just scanning pics for known hashes, the plan is to scan everything all the time including messages etc.

 

[usagora]

No, the parents have no rights to violate the child’s/youth’s privacy. The right way is not to add surveillance but teach them use phones safely.

Of course you teach them that, but good parents will also have accountability in place.

This is the entirety of the scope of the technology Apple is intending to implement:

The Messages app will add new tools to warn children and their parents when receiving or sending sexually explicit photos. https://www.apple.com/child-safety/

That's it. This isn't about parents reading all their children's text messages like you seem to think is the goal here. It's ONLY concerning sexually explicit images.

Yes, children should be given a certain level of privacy, especially as they get older, but it's definitely not some absolute right while they are minors and living with their parents. There are some things parent's SHOULD stick their nose in for the well-being of their child. Parents raise children; children don't raise parents.

 

[mrex]

Of course you teach them that, but good parents will also have accountability in place.

This is the entirety of the scope of the technology Apple is intending to implement:



That's it. This isn't about parents reading all their children's text messages like you seem to think is the goal here. It's ONLY concerning sexually explicit images.

Yes, children should be given a certain level of privacy, especially as they get older, but it's definitely not some absolute right while they are minors and living with their parents. There are some things parent's SHOULD stick their nose in for the well-being of their child. Parents raise children; children don't raise parents.

Are you going to walk step by step with your child to be an accountable parent? a teen may buy booze, joint, or just tobacco, have sex, or skip classes…? No, you dont. The same goes with the phone. There is no trust between the child and parents if their parents cant trust their child without surveying.

The scanning happens when sending photos… If apple think that the photo is nude (e.g. a teen using a online doctor service) the parents are let to know about the image. If another teen (boy/girlfriend) send a nude to each other, parents are notified also. That violates the privacy very much. Remember that many ”children” are youth, able to get married, but using phones from their parents who may switch the surveillance on. When this happens on certain countries the teen may even be hanged when the teen is just differend: https://www.advocate.com/world/2016/8/05/teen-executed-gay-sex-iran-latest-long-trend

After Apple introduced this scanning, UK already demanded Apple to scan encrypted messages also, so it didnt take much time when some goverment was asking even more.

 

[usagora]

Are you going to walk step by step with your child to be an accountable parent? a teen may buy booze, joint, or just tobacco, have sex, or skip classes…? No, you dont. The same goes with the phone. There is no trust between the child and parents if their parents cant trust their child without surveying.

Not quite following your logic with the first three sentences. Are you saying parents should not care if their children are doing all those things? If so, "yikes!" and I hope you're not a parent 😮

As for Messages, You are acting like the parents would be reading every single message their child sends/receives. Do you not understand that this is ONLY alerting parents if their child chooses to view or send a sexually explicit image? Additionally, the child is warned before receiving/sending, so they have a chance to back out.

This notion that "surveying" or accountability = "no trust" is silly. Would you let your middle school or high school aged child go to an unsupervised party? I sure hope not! Does that mean there is no trust between you and your child? Of course not - it's simply accountability. The idea is not "I totally distrust my child and just know he/she will do something wrong, so I want to be sure a responsible adult is there to stop them" but rather "I trust my child, but he/she is still young and needs guidance and boundaries, so i want to be sure a responsible adult is there to protect them."