EgyptAir flight MS804 may have been brought down by overheating phone chain reaction

Discussion in 'Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices' started by mi7chy, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. mi7chy, Jan 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017

    mi7chy Suspended

    mi7chy

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    #1
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36349096
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_804
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/faulty-pho...yptair-flight-ms804-investigators-say-1600963
    Placement of phone, tablet, alcohol based parfum and aerosol accelerant in cockpit from departing Charles Degaulle airport CCTV
    http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/crash-egyptair-les-mysteres-du-cockpit-13-01-2017-6560793.php
    [​IMG]

    Warnings from ACARS (Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System) air to ground digital datalink.
    [​IMG]

    FCU (flight control unit) diagram
    [​IMG]

    Air brake spoiler numbering
    [​IMG]


    Last moments flight timeline

    According to ATS-B broadcasts it appears to be on autopilot maintaining 37,000 ft up to last broadcast at 00:30Z
    [​IMG]

    http://news.sky.com/story/egyptair-crash-data-shows-smoke-near-cockpit-10289755
    FACTS

    Fire was reported on the Voice Cockpit Recorder and ACARS sensors reported spreading fire damage to flight instrumentation along with smoke spreading to other compartments.

    We know that phone explosion causes extensive smoke and sometimes localized fire that burns itself out but fire doesn't spread.



    On the other hand, liquid alcohol based accelerant from fragrance and aerosols is smokeless but spreads rapidly and can defy normal fires rapidly spreading downwards into other compartments.



    Large 5000+ mAh tablet batteries are incendiary bombs.




    Challenges that the crew had to deal with:

    - cockpit fire

    - loss of internal cockpit visibility from smoke

    - loss of external visibility from window de-icing equipment failure at high altitude

    - loss of some flight controls

    - loss of air speed brake for rapid emergency descent that could lead to break up of aircraft from exceeding design specifications

    - loss of fly-by-wire capability that protects airplane from pilot errors that exceed design specifications

    - apparently loss of communication equipment

    - limited ~13 minute oxygen supply before succumbing to hypoxia above 10,000 ft (flight was originally at 37,000 ft, normal descent is 2,000 ft/min while maximum emergency descent is 10,000 ft/min assuming functional air speed brakes and fly-by-wire protection)
     
  2. Apple 26.2 macrumors 6502a

    Apple 26.2

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Location:
    What up, 212?!
    #2
    Scary stuff, but hey... if I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go... I'm not afraid of that.
     
  3. mi7chy, Jan 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

    mi7chy thread starter Suspended

    mi7chy

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    #3
    An overheating phone by itself on board an airliner has been shown to be manageable but the combined chain reaction effect in close proxmity with four flammable fragrance bottles, two aerosols plus a tablet with 5,124 mAh battery could be overwhelming. It's unfortunate that it seems nothing was learned from recent recalls and incidents. The FAA need to be stricter with safe handling on flights treating all lithium battery the same, requiring certified LiPo bag per device and separation from flammable accelerants especially in critical areas like the cockpit as was discussed here last year.

    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ideas-for-lithium-battery-safety.1992697/
     
  4. Paul Dawkins Suspended

    Paul Dawkins

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Location:
    Stonehenge
    #4
    What do you expect? Ban on batteries of any kind, shape or form on aeroplanes?
     
  5. Tsepz macrumors 68000

    Tsepz

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Location:
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    #5
    Are you telling me this plane was brought down by an Apple iPad and Apple iPhone? Wow! That is quite heavy.
     
  6. flyinmac, Jan 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

    flyinmac macrumors 68040

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #6
    Perhaps it's time for the industry to move on to new technology and abandon lithium ion technology.

    We've had all types of rechargeable batteries for electronic devices: lead-acid, NiCad, NiMH, Lithium Ion, etc....

    Each had their faults and weaknesses. As well as their positive aspects.

    Perhaps it's time for us to move beyond traditional thinking, and get a little more inspired creative thinking applied to the problem.

    We are a commercialized world. And that presents power struggles as dominant companies seek to retain their cash flow by stubbornly sticking to old ideas and fighting against better ideas that would unseat them from their throne.

    Consider the idea that we had vehicles powered by alternative means from the beginning. Yet here we sit with big oil slowing transition away from fossil fuels. Clearly options are there, but gasoline isn't going away anytime soon. Thanks to the powers that be, who get fat on oil money.

    Now, turn back to electronics. While I don't have all the answers, I do know that there are some amazing ideas being explored in options for electrical power. But, again, we have an entrenched industry. What if we opened up and invited all to present their craziest and wildest ideas and worked to revolutionize the world instead of working to keep a few companies rich?

    We can extract power from vegetables. And have been able to do so for as long as I can remember. It's ridiculously simple.

    And no I'm not saying we should hook up a potato to the iPhone. But I'm saying we have all these brilliant scientific minds out there. And if a 6 year old can power a lightbulb from a potato or lemon, or whatever.... then surely these brilliant scientists could unite to design something which provides the power we need, without exploding.
     
  7. Paul Dawkins Suspended

    Paul Dawkins

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Location:
    Stonehenge
    #7
    It's time for many things, but there is that small problem of not having that new technology to replace with.
     
  8. FFR macrumors 68020

    FFR

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Location:
    London
    #8
    Talk about conspiracy theories , good job op.

    Except the op forgot to post this little bit of information:

    "It is understood that the information provided by the Le Parisien source has not been independently verified. While investigators may have at one point probed whether an overheating mobile device started the fire, this line of inquiry has not been advanced."

    The article also mentions the Samsung galaxy note 7.

    "Smartphones containing lithium-ion batteries have been known to explode when exposed to excessive heat or pressure. Samsung was forced to recall its Galaxy Note 7 last year due to widespread reports of the handset catching fire, caused by stressed batteries. This led to a number of airlines banning the phone from flights."


    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/faulty-pho...yptair-flight-ms804-investigators-say-1600963
     
  9. C DM macrumors Westmere

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
  10. Suckfest 9001 macrumors 65816

    Suckfest 9001

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Location:
    Canada
    #10
    Yay, pure conjecture being taken as fact by brand loyalists!

    Nothing says "I'm comfortable and secure in my purchase decisions" like actively posting threads badmouthing the other side, right?
     
  11. macfacts macrumors 68030

    macfacts

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Location:
    Cybertron
    #11
    It mentions the Note 7 as bait click. Note 7 was no where near that plane and never killed anyone.
     
  12. FFR macrumors 68020

    FFR

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Location:
    London
    #12
  13. Paul Dawkins Suspended

    Paul Dawkins

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Location:
    Stonehenge
    #13
    Allegedly.
     
  14. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Location:
    First university coding class = 47 years ago
    #14
    Not sure why you brought that up.

    <-- Heck, the pilot could've had ten Note 7s baking in a microwave.

    But it didn't matter, since the fire supposedly started over on the copilot's iDevice side --->
     
  15. Klyster macrumors 65816

    Klyster

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    #15
    Doesn't anyone else find it strange that the Note 7's haven't had a fire for a while? It's not like there isn't any in the wild still..
     
  16. Paul Dawkins Suspended

    Paul Dawkins

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Location:
    Stonehenge
    #16
    Not strange.
     
  17. Klyster macrumors 65816

    Klyster

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    #17
    Theres 200,000 plus still in the wild, after the initial hoohar, there doesn't seem to be any more immolations.
    I find it kinda strange, the press would be all over it, if one caught fire and if it was reported of course.
     
  18. Paul Dawkins Suspended

    Paul Dawkins

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Location:
    Stonehenge
    #18
    You have no idea how many are there this very second and how many are being used. Obviously they all are not going to burst in flames, that wasn't ever a possibility.
     
  19. Klyster macrumors 65816

    Klyster

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    #19
    Yeah true, the last I heard, until I looked now, was 200k + Note 7's being held onto.

    Still, the fires seemed to stop happening pretty abruptly and with Verizon saying they still have thousands of users still using Note 7's, it's easy to assume there would be many thousands more globally.
    It's not like they aren't being used.
     
  20. Paul Dawkins Suspended

    Paul Dawkins

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Location:
    Stonehenge
    #20
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
     
  21. Klyster macrumors 65816

    Klyster

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    #21
  22. Paul Dawkins Suspended

    Paul Dawkins

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Location:
    Stonehenge
    #22
    I thought it will be useful in the future.
     
  23. Klyster macrumors 65816

    Klyster

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    #23
    Thanks, enjoy it up there ;)
     

Share This Page