Elon Musk Says Apple's Electric Car Project is an 'Open Secret'

[ChrisA]

Looking forward to seeing this car, hopefully it will be "affordable" though even for the most die hard fans who can afford apple products, may never be able to afford this one.

Apple may have plans to make a car that is "disruptive". In other words it will change the way the car market works. For example, just maybe Apple will not sell their cars to individuals. Perhaps they are starting a car-share company. This is where you pay a monthly fee then get to use any of the cars. Think of it like you pay $350 a month then get unlimited use of Uber. You would never need to own a car. But what if Apple supplies "Ubers" but with no driver. The car drives itself. What would you pay per month to buy into as-neededuse of a self driving car? It might be a very low fee because the car would be shared between many people. Actually a shared self driving car is better then owning one because You WOULD NEVER HAVE To PARK it. Apple could solve the parking problem. Today many people who own cars might use a taxi (or Uber) just so they don't have to park. This happens in many big cities.

I REALLY hope Apple has a very different business model then selling cars. Renting them by the hour or many even they only sell to Taxi companies? They need to do something very different for this is even make sense.

From a bussenis point of view selling shares in a shared car service is a good idea for Apple. They could start small in a small city like San Fransisco, then as they build more and more cars they expand their service area until they cover the entire world.

Tesla took the other approach and I think Apple might not want to compete directly with Telsa. Tessa's problem is there are a limited number of people who can afford their product. But a car-share service is affordable to even students and might even be cheaper then owning a car. The potential market is HUGE. And Apple would not have to ever sell even one car.

 

[Dranix]

car sharing doesn't work - 2 main reasons:

1) most people need their cars at the same time, for example to drive to work and home

2) people hate shared transport because always someone is a dirty bastard and people don't like sitting in dirt

 

[MH01]

Apple may have plans to make a car that is "disruptive". In other words it will change the way the car market works. For example, just maybe Apple will not sell their cars to individuals. Perhaps they are starting a car-share company. This is where you pay a monthly fee then get to use any of the cars. Think of it like you pay $350 a month then get unlimited use of Uber. You would never need to own a car. But what if Apple supplies "Ubers" but with no driver. The car drives itself. What would you pay per month to buy into as-neededuse of a self driving car? It might be a very low fee because the car would be shared between many people. Actually a shared self driving car is better then owning one because You WOULD NEVER HAVE To PARK it. Apple could solve the parking problem. Today many people who own cars might use a taxi (or Uber) just so they don't have to park. This happens in many big cities.

I REALLY hope Apple has a very different business model then selling cars. Renting them by the hour or many even they only sell to Taxi companies? They need to do something very different for this is even make sense.

From a bussenis point of view selling shares in a shared car service is a good idea for Apple. They could start small in a small city like San Fransisco, then as they build more and more cars they expand their service area until they cover the entire world.

Tesla took the other approach and I think Apple might not want to compete directly with Telsa. Tessa's problem is there are a limited number of people who can afford their product. But a car-share service is affordable to even students and might even be cheaper then owning a car. The potential market is HUGE. And Apple would not have to ever sell even one car.

That's a really interesting point of view on the subject. I hope you are correct and Apple approaches this from another angle other than selling a very expansive car.

 

[KnighsTalker]

I say it's a red herring to cover up for a Jetsons type flying car!

 

[oldmacs]

Its gonna be funny when Car OS 8.0.1 has a bug that disables the engine

 

[Alenore]

Kinda nuts that a site called Macrumors would have a pro-Apple crowd, right?

Kind of nuts people on a site related to Apple news wouldn't praise everything they do and see the opposite as being the Devil itself?

We might be interested in Apple and their products, them being the leader and a very good vector of innovation in the industry, but it doesn't mean we have to blindly agree with all their choices or see the competition as being greedy companies just wanting your d4t4zz and nothing else.

Some time ago, the saying was "if it's free, you're the product". Yet I don't see that applied to Beats 1, iWork, OS X upgrades, or even stock Apple apps. Double standards much?

 

[chromite]

Mobile Me? try the one button mouse!! That was a huge mistake by Steve. He definitely had issues (so I have read), but he did have moments of brilliants. I haven't seen Tim shine, I think of him as a one button mouse right now.

Haven't seen Tim shine? The current state of Apple is proof enough that he's shining. Apple is the largest public company on the planet right now with a cash pile that Steve wouldn't have thought possible. Apple has repeatedly broken its own records year after year since Tim has taken over. Can you explain what you would like to see Tim doing differently?

 

[Keirasplace]

car sharing doesn't work - 2 main reasons:

1) most people need their cars at the same time, for example to drive to work and home

2) people hate shared transport because always someone is a dirty bastard and people don't like sitting in dirt

Yet, car sharing is getting ever more popular... And people in places like NYC use taxis all the time.

You know what people also don't like, paying 5 times more money than they need for a service.

If the cars are cleaned each day; there is generally no problem, and if there is, in this case, you'd know who is
doing the messing, and you could fine them (per contract), or simply remove them from the service.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Tesla is an "errand getter"? Ha. What a joke. Furthermore, you really should review your pricing. With tax credits (in the US), you can get into a Tesla Model S or X for under $70K and they definitely seat more than 2 people. Model S seats 5. Model X seats 7. They haven't made a 2 seater in years.

Models S 70D, the entry level model, starts at $75K. Model X 70D starts at $80K. There is a $7500 Federal tax credit. Some states offer additional credits. When you configure on Tesla's site, they also calculate gas savings. They put the price of a Model X 70D at $61,000 if you live in California ($80K base price - $7500 federal tax credit - $2500 CA incentive - $9000 fuel savings).

I would guess that most people don't drive more than 100 miles per day, but that is definitely a more restrictive range. No argument. ~250 miles is very reasonable even for long drives considering the Supercharger can provide ~70% of a charge in about 40 minutes.

You seem a tad sensitive. Yes, a Tesla, like any other impractical car, is an errand getter; i.e., useful only for short trips. Doesn't matter if it's a Tesla or a Merc S550 or a SmartCar. An errand getter can be amazing car, beautifully designed, inside and out, they can excel at a specific task, but that doesn't make them practical for "most purposes," as is generally desired in a car. It doesn't pass the "it could be my/our only car" test.

You talk about how the tax credit gets the Tesla down to $60K as if that wasn't still 2x more expensive than the average family car. And $9K in fuel savings, but then you eventually have to buy another battery in 5 years. Hey! You got the cost of ownership down to $50K, maybe.

But you still can't take it on a road trip. Fact - there are about 6.5x more gas stations in the U.S. than charging station. That means unless you are traveling to a major city it's likely you are going to run dry. Either that or you have to route to a fuel station then wait 40 minutes for it to charge. Compared to 4 min. to refuel a gas car that is a huge discrepancy. The vast majority of consumers are not willing to take that risk or waste that time to recharge on the road.

So, yes, electric has a long way to go before being a practical consumer product. Right now its still in the proof of concept stage, owned by early adopters and trophy lovers. Also there is still the issue of what to do with all the dead batteries once electric does gain in popularity, an issue no less problematic than carbon emissions from gas cars.

(BTW yes, a Model S is a 2 seater for all practical purposes. Sure it has 4 seats like my BMW 435i, but they are not comfortable for any one older than 10. I've sat in the backseat of a Tesla and it's pure torture after about 15 minutes. Certainly not something you'd ask guests to travel in on a day trip to the countryside.)

 

[diipii]

In an interview with the BBC, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said it is an "open secret" that Apple is developing an electric car. Musk made the statement when asked if he had heard anything about Apple's car development plans and went on to highlight the huge number of hires Apple has made as evidence.

"Well, it's pretty hard to hide something if you hire over a thousand engineers to do it," he said, before adding that he believed Apple was serious about the project. "This is an open secret."

Musk went on to say Tesla welcomes participation by any company that wants to create electric vehicles, but he cautioned that it's "quite hard to do." He brushed off the interviewer's question of whether an Apple car would be a threat to Tesla, and said that he believes Apple will develop a "compelling" electric car because "it seems like the obvious thing to do."

Musk is aware of Apple's hiring efforts because Apple has made an effort to hire former Tesla employees for its car project. The two companies have developed something of a rivalry as they compete for talent, leading Musk to take a jab at Apple in an October interview, saying "If you don't make it at Tesla, you go work at Apple," a statement he later retracted.

The first rumors surrounding Apple's car project, allegedly codenamed "Project Titan," surfaced in early 2015. Since then, Apple has recruited dozens of engineers and researchers from the automotive industry and other car-related fields, poaching employees from companies like Tesla, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Volkswagen, Samsung, and more.


Over the past few months, there's been a growing body of evidence pointing towards work on a car. Apple sought out a secure testing facility for testing electric vehicles in May of 2015, and met with DMV officials to discuss the laws and regulations surrounding self-driving vehicles in California in September. Most recently, Apple registered three auto-related top-level domain names, including apple.car, apple.cars, and apple.auto.

Little is known about Apple's car project, but the company is rumored to be working on an electric vehicle. Rumors have disagreed on the topic of autonomy, but the most recent information suggests that while Apple is exploring self-driving technology, it is a feature that may come in a later version of the Apple Car.

Article Link: Elon Musk Says Apple's Electric Car Project is an 'Open Secret'

Manufacturers will spend gazillions developing this, lobby governments to make it compulsory and we will just switch it off.

 

[igorsky]

Kind of nuts people on a site related to Apple news wouldn't praise everything they do and see the opposite as being the Devil itself?

We might be interested in Apple and their products, them being the leader and a very good vector of innovation in the industry, but it doesn't mean we have to blindly agree with all their choices or see the competition as being greedy companies just wanting your d4t4zz and nothing else.

Some time ago, the saying was "if it's free, you're the product". Yet I don't see that applied to Beats 1, iWork, OS X upgrades, or even stock Apple apps. Double standards much?

Read through this three times and still not sure what your complaint is. No one is forcing you to "blindly agree"...you vote with your wallet and are free to not buy their products. And what's this hangup people have about them making money, like every other corporation on this planet? Buy some Apple stock and them making money won't upset you anymore.

 

[Alenore]

Read through this three times and still not sure what your complaint is. Is it that they're out to make money like every other corporation on the planet? Or is it that they give you a choice to buy into or not to buy into their decisions buy purchasing or not purchasing their products?

There's absolutely no complaint about Apple. It's a company, it's here to make profit.
My point was, someone is bashing Google and when I use the same argument about Apple, it's totally wrong and baseless

 

[igorsky]

There's absolutely no complaint about Apple. It's a company, it's here to make profit.
My point was, someone is bashing Google and when I use the same argument about Apple, it's totally wrong and baseless

Sounds like you're saying we're a cult

 

[igorsky]

I'm saying that a car has motors, requires service, requires garages, requires a completely different kind of "tech support", etc, etc, etc. And no, designing a consumer electronics device isn't anything like designing a car. Do some of the same skills apply? Sure. But that doesn't = success. I don't use "hubris" as an insult, but as a caution. Excessive pride. Maybe you think that's a good thing? I don't. There's nothing pessimistic about my attitude. I'm cautious. The auto industry is a deeply entrenched one. When you consider Tesla's success, it's actually quite amazing. Everything has been a battle for them. You have no perspective. If you really knew Apple, the company, and its REAL history, not your cheerleader history, you'd realize that they failed many times and made many bad decisions, some of which were driven by hubris. If history is going to remember Tim Cook as anyone other than "the guy who took over from the visionary founder Steve Jobs", he needs to blow everyone's mind and he obviously thinks a car is the way to do that.

I think you're confusing your own beliefs with reality. Your beliefs regarding what Apple is as a company and who Tim Cook is as a leader don't match actual results, at all. Me believing that the current incarnation of Apple is a resounding success is not "cheerleading", it's pointing out reality to someone who refused to believe it because of his personal expectations.
[doublepost=1452704226][/doublepost]

I think the Watch is pretty big fail, not because of sales (which seem to be pretty good within the wearables category), but for middling design and a lack of any significant stand-out feature. The Apple Watch, technically speaking, is not much better than every other smart watch out there. Yes, it has a better OS, an App Store, etc. and these are all compelling features, but they are evolutionary and were totally expected. Before the Watch was released, many people (plenty on here!) swore up and down that the Apple Watch would feature some amazing, one-of-a-kind feature when it was finally released. Guess what? It didn't. And the design itself is weak. It's very tech-y looking, not "fine jewelry", and already looks dated. For all of the constant, endless ego stroking Jony gets, I expected much better. Instead of a beautiful piece of jewelry, what did we get? Essentially something that looks like a mini iPhone on the wrist. BORING. And worse, it looks cheap, especially paired with a hideous rubber sport band. Like you said, it does not instill much confidence.

This right here is a great example of why Apple's stock is undervalued...people attempt infuse their own expectations and preferences into the real world. In the real world, the AW has sold anywhere from 8-15 million units (depending on estimates) with revenue in excess of $1 billion. And then you proceed to nitpick with criticisms that represent your personal taste. The AW is a "big fail" in fantasy land.

 

[robbyx]

I think you're confusing your own beliefs with reality. Your beliefs regarding what Apple is as a company and who Tim Cook is as a leader don't match actual results, at all. Me believing that the current incarnation of Apple is a resounding success is not "cheerleading", it's pointing out reality to someone who refused to believe it because of his personal expectations.
[doublepost=1452704226][/doublepost]

This right here is a great example of why Apple's stock is undervalued...people attempt infuse their own expectations and preferences into the real world. In the real world, the AW has sold anywhere from 8-15 million units (depending on estimates) with revenue in excess of $1 billion. And then you proceed to nitpick with criticisms that represent your personal taste. The AW is a "big fail" in fantasy land.

I also believe that the current incarnation of Apple is a great success. That success, however, is largely due to Steve Jobs. Apple is riding the iOS wave. Tim has done a great job of building upon that success, but we haven't seen him put his mark on the company like I imagine he intends to do with his transportation initiative. That will be the true test. And yes, I am skeptical, because building, selling, servicing, and supporting a car is a lot different than doing the same for a smart phone. I also have a long history with Apple (33 years and counting) and I've seen them make some pretty huge mistakes, so I'm not foolish enough to believe that, just because things are good today, everything they do will somehow be magically successful.

As for the Watch, I acknowledged that it has sold pretty well, better than any other wearable, less than all the fanboy cheerleaders were claiming it would (who here said it would sell 40 million units the first year? yeah, I'd keep quiet too if I were you...). And I stand by my criticism. The Mac transformed the desktop UI. iTunes+iPod transformed the way we buy and listen to music. The iPhone transformed communications. The Watch didn't even move the needle. It's a nice piece of hardware, but it does nothing better than any other similar product on the market. And that's why I call it a fail. Not because of sales, but because it didn't bring anything new to the table. Furthermore, considering that there are 300+ million iPhones out there that are Watch compatible, the fact that only ~10 million Watches have been sold suggests that most iPhone owners aren't interested in the product. It's a nice little niche accessory to pad the bottom line, that's all.

 

[igorsky]

I also believe that the current incarnation of Apple is a great success. That success, however, is largely due to Steve Jobs. Apple is riding the iOS wave. Tim has done a great job of building upon that success, but we haven't seen him put his mark on the company like I imagine he intends to do with his transportation initiative. That will be the true test. And yes, I am skeptical, because building, selling, servicing, and supporting a car is a lot different than doing the same for a smart phone. I also have a long history with Apple (33 years and counting) and I've seen them make some pretty huge mistakes, so I'm not foolish enough to believe that, just because things are good today, everything they do will somehow be magically successful.

As for the Watch, I acknowledged that it has sold pretty well, better than any other wearable, less than all the fanboy cheerleaders were claiming it would (who here said it would sell 40 million units the first year? yeah, I'd keep quiet too if I were you...). And I stand by my criticism. The Mac transformed the desktop UI. iTunes+iPod transformed the way we buy and listen to music. The iPhone transformed communications. The Watch didn't even move the needle. It's a nice piece of hardware, but it does nothing better than any other similar product on the market. And that's why I call it a fail. Not because of sales, but because it didn't bring anything new to the table.

In your first paragraph you're describing pretty much every company in existence in the history of time. They do some great things, they make some mistakes. They come up with some great ideas, other ideas suck. That's how ideas work. Musk's cars occasionally set on fire in the middle of a highway...$h!t happens.

As far as your comparison between the iPhone and Apple Watch and their respective impacts...you couldn't be more wrong. First of all there's a direct correlation between the drop in Swiss watchmaker's revenue and the release of the Apple Watch. Not only did the AW move the needle, but it moved the needle in an unrelated industry! It took the iPhone years to transform communications and become ubiquitous with smartphones. In it's first year, the AW outsold the original iPhone by 10x, and it is ALREADY ubiquitous with smartwatches having outsold all competitors combined, ever. Not to mention that every company under the sun (including traditional watchmakers!) is now in the smartwatch business and, in your opinion, that has nothing to do with the Apple Watch? That's the very definition of a product that transforms an industry.

As I said, your personal opinion in no way jibes with reality.

 

[robbyx]

In your first paragraph you're describing pretty much every company in existence in the history of time. They do some great things, they make some mistakes. They come up with some great ideas, other ideas suck. That's how ideas work. Musk's cars occasionally set on fire in the middle of highway...$h!t happens.

As far as your comparison between the iPhone and Apple Watch and their respective impacts...you couldn't be more wrong. First of all there's a direct correlation between the drop in Swiss watchmaker's revenue and the release of the Apple Watch. Not only did the AW move the needle, but it moved the needle in an unrelated industry! It took the iPhone years to transform communications and become ubiquitous with smartphones. In it's first year, the AW outsold the original iPhone by 10x, and it is ALREADY ubiquitous with smartwatches having outsold all competitors combined, ever. Not to mention that every company under the sun (including traditional watchmakers!) is now in the smartwatch business and, in your opinion, that has nothing to do with the Apple Watch? That's the very definition of a product that transforms an industry.

As I said, your personal opinion in no way jibes with reality.

Agreed on how companies work. Which is precisely why I don't assume, as many here do, that Apple's transportation initiative will be a runaway success. The transportation business is not in their wheelhouse. Building a car is something of a "bet the farm" type move for Apple. It could be hugely successful, or it could sink them. I also have to wonder why Cooke and company think that getting into the transportation business is a better move than fortifying their position in consumer electronics. It's kind of crazy that Apple can hire 1000+ people to work on a car project, but they can't build bulletproof cloud services for all of their existing customers. When I think of the "Apple Car", I always think of Richard Branson's comment (to paraphrase): "how do you turn a billion dollars into a million dollars? Buy an airline." Or get into the car business.

As for the Watch, I agree with most of what you say. I just don't see it the way you do. When I talk about the iPhone transforming communications, I don't mean that it was a runaway success on day one. I mean that it set a new, really high bar. The Apple Watch did not do that. Yes, it has sold enough to make the Swiss watch industry nervous. Yes, it has prodded them to innovate. I also don't believe that you can compare first year iPhone sales to first year Watch sales for several reasons. It's a specious argument to make and I don't really feel the need to pick apart something that should be so very obvious to you.

As for "every company under the sun" being in the smart watch business, I never said anything about the Apple Watch's impact on other companies' decisions to enter the wearables market. Don't put words in my mouth. I said that the Apple Watch, as a product, brought nothing new to the table. And I stand by that. But let's also be REAL here. Fitbit, Pebble, Motorola, Samsung, Microsoft, etc. were all in the smartwatch/wearables business BEFORE Apple. Since Apple, we've seen some of the high end Swiss companies get nervous, but your suggestion that everyone is in the smartwatch business because of Apple is flat out wrong. Apple is the newcomer. It's your opinion that doesn't jibe with reality.

Finally, no Tesla has caught fire in the middle of a highway for no reason. The well-publicized case of the Model S in Seattle that caught fire was the result of a piece of metal ricocheting and puncturing the battery compartment. In other words, a freak accident.

 

[igorsky]

Agreed on how companies work. Which is precisely why I don't assume, as many here do, that Apple's transportation initiative will be a runaway success. The transportation business is not in their wheelhouse. Building a car is something of a "bet the farm" type move for Apple. It could be hugely successful, or it could sink them. I also have to wonder why Cooke and company think that getting into the transportation business is a better move than fortifying their position in consumer electronics. It's kind of crazy that Apple can hire 1000+ people to work on a car project, but they can't build bulletproof cloud services for all of their existing customers. When I think of the "Apple Car", I always think of Richard Branson's comment (to paraphrase): "how do you turn a billion dollars into a million dollars? Buy an airline." Or get into the car business.

Critics are constantly pushing Apple to find other revenue streams. When they do, they're spreading themselves too thin. Tough crowd, the Apple critics are. And if Apple does manage to build a bulletproof cloud service, they'll be the first to do so.

As for the Watch, I agree with most of what you say. I just don't see it the way you do. When I talk about the iPhone transforming communications, I don't mean that it was a runaway success on day one. I mean that it set a new, really high bar. The Apple Watch did not do that. Yes, it has sold enough to make the Swiss watch industry nervous. Yes, it has prodded them to innovate. I also don't believe that you can compare first year iPhone sales to first year Watch sales for several reasons. It's a specious argument to make and I don't really feel the need to pick apart something that should be so very obvious to you.

Hey thanks for that side of condescension to go along with your fallacious main course. If you can explain to me why this is an "obvious" specious argument then perhaps I can come up with an obvious counter.

As for "every company under the sun" being in the smart watch business, I never said anything about the Apple Watch's impact on other companies' decisions to enter the wearables market. Don't put words in my mouth. I said that the Apple Watch, as a product, brought nothing new to the table. And I stand by that. But let's also be REAL here. Fitbit, Pebble, Motorola, Samsung, Microsoft, etc. were all in the smartwatch/wearables business BEFORE Apple. Since Apple, we've seen some of the high end Swiss companies get nervous, but your suggestion that everyone is in the smartwatch business because of Apple is flat out wrong. Apple is the newcomer.

Nothing was put in your mouth, at least not by me. My point is simply that other companies' decisions were based on the release of the AW. And if we are being REAL, I'll grant you that Pebble beat everyone to the punch while the others released a product as fast as they could once the AW rumors start making their rounds.

Finally, no Tesla has caught fire in the middle of a highway for no reason. The well-publicized case of the Model S in Seattle that caught fire was the result of a piece of metal ricocheting and puncturing the battery compartment. In other words, a freak accident.

I stand corrected. Tesla still remains the current leader in the electronic vehicle industry.


How about we take a break and just agree to disagree? Judging from some of your comments in this topic, you're clearly in need of a Snickers Bar. We have a good 3-5 years to see how the Apple Car pans out.

 

[robbyx]

Critics are constantly pushing Apple to find other revenue streams. When they do, they're spreading themselves too thin. Tough crowd, the Apple critics are. And if Apple does manage to build a bulletproof cloud service, they'll be the first to do so.

Well, considering Apple cloud services have been a huge FAIL for over a decade now, they sure are taking their sweet time! Google, Amazon and Microsoft run circles around them today. Apple's cloud offerings are notoriously faulty, from contacts and appointments being erased randomly to iTunes Match wiping out libraries to iCloud Photo Library trashing pictures. Apple's cloud services are unreliable. iCloud Photo Library trashed my photos. Luckily I had a recent backup. I know several people whose music libraries were trashed by iTunes Match/iCloud Music Library. And I know quite a few people who have lost contacts and appointments. Not reliable.

Hey thanks for that side of condescension to go along with your fallacious main course. If you can explain to me why this is an "obvious" specious argument then perhaps I can come up with an obvious counter.

Like I said, if you can't see it, you can't see it. And no matter what I say will be wrong in your eyes anyway, so I really don't care.

Nothing was put in your mouth, at least not by me. My point is simply that other companies' decisions were based on the release of the AW. And if we are being REAL, I'll grant you that Pebble beat everyone to the punch while the others released a product as fast as they could once the AW rumors start making their rounds.

All of the companies I mentioned had actual products in stores before the Apple Watch was released, not just Pebble. Samsung released its first Galaxy smartwatch over a year before Apple even announced, much less shipped, the Apple Watch. Microsoft shipped the Band one month after the Apple Watch was announced.

Oh, but I see, it's the RUMOR that got all of these big companies to jump into the smart watch business. Uh huh, sure. So I guess that means that every company that is releasing electric cars today or in the near future is only doing so because of the RUMOR that Apple is building a car? Not only is Apple solely responsible for building the smart watch industry, it is now also responsible for the electric car industry! Go Apple!

Your capacity for revisionist history is nothing short of astounding.

How about we take a break and just agree to disagree? Judging from some of your comments in this topic, you're clearly in need of a Snickers Bar. We have a good 3-5 years to see how the Apple Car pans out.

And judging by yours, you need to remove your Apple rose colored glasses and deal in reality, not fanboy fiction.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Look, you're wrong. Get over yourself.

Says the pot to the kettle. Go back and read my first post on this thread. It's positive to Tesla. All I have said is electric car tech is still in early stages and has a ways to go to matching the utility of gas powered cars. I'm not sure why someone stating that gets your goat but clearly a discussion here isn't possible.

 

[Soccertess]

Haven't seen Tim shine? The current state of Apple is proof enough that he's shining. Apple is the largest public company on the planet right now with a cash pile that Steve wouldn't have thought possible. Apple has repeatedly broken its own records year after year since Tim has taken over. Can you explain what you would like to see Tim doing differently?

Really? This is all Tim? Tim built the company, launched the iphone, Apple TV, macbook air, and Ipad? All under Tim's leadership?

The only new product that Tim can say was released under his watch is the Apple watch How is that going for him...

 

[ke-iron]

My employer has the top of the line P85+ that Tesla first rolled out and my dad has the more recent P85D.

They spent the same amount of cash, but only my dad's is autopilot ready. He has TONS of hardware not available a mere 2-3 years later. So much for software updates.

The older cars still got tons of software updates that added useful features regardless. You can't expect it to have all new features.

 

[gimikinc]

This seems to be the default comment "Arrogant" I don't see that at all. He is good at what he does and has a good time doing it. You are reading what ever you want to see into it.

That is your opinion, not sure I agree. "They have hired people we've fired," and calling Apple the Tesla graveyard....arrogant and "...good at what he does and has a good time doing it..." are mutually exclusive.

 

[spacemnspiff]

I would like to say that history repeats itself. There is lot of talk who are against the electric car from people who resembles folks who wanted to keep their horses when the Model T came around. Those people made lot of excuses to keep their horses and keep the laws from being changed in favor of the automobile. They made excuses against automobiles, like

• Cars are air and noise polluters
  
• They break down frequently
  
• Few gas stations
  
• Require too much maintenance

While horses on the other hand - you just have to feed them, no maintenance. We all know how that ended.

Electric car along with self driving capability has too much promise to dismiss easily, it holds the possibility of upending the car industry, car ownership, definition of commute, delivery services - the list is just too long.

The current car industry along with so called innovative European car companies are in for a rude awakening. They have spent the past 100 years improving the thermal efficiency of the IC Engine from 10% to probably 30%, that means 70% is still wasted. All they did was take the easy way out - example - want more horsepower, add more displacement. They were late on foreseeing the benefits of hybrids, electric drive-train etc. A simpler electric car has far too much going for it than against.

 

[oliversl]

A car made in China? They could not build it in the US and keep the secret, until it is the owner of Faraday Future ...