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eMacs Changing?

There should be a G5 in every model except the eMac and iBook. Hopefully this will happen within the next six months. An all G5 consumer line consisting of a CRT iMac (17" or 19"), Widescreen LCD iMacs(17"and 20") and a G5 Cube would be really good news. The eMac can stick around for a while longer but should be redesigned to be made at even less expense and should be priced much lower. Right now it is stuck at a point where it is still too expensive for education and too underpowered for consumers.
 
the only difference between the "previous generation" and refurbished machines is that those labeled previous generation are new in box, and not just refurbished. Take a look at the ibook G3's listed. There are two sections, one for previous model, and another for refurbished. All this is, is a labeling system to differentiate between new and used. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by ~Shard~
I agree that anyone making such a claim is rather ignorant - why would anyone want to stay with G4s forever? But could you please back up this claim with some posts of people saying specifically that?
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Good luck.

I may lurk, but all I've seen out of Donthurtme on this subject has been this constant rave against Apple and their engineering. For some reason, anyone who even slightly defends the choices Apple has made, and the forces of the market, is an apologist who thinks that macs shouldn't ever be used as gaming machines. Maybe it's never occured to him that companies have to modify the boards to be used in Apple machines, and that an economy of scale applies in these matters. DVI is standard enough, but ADC is not exactly the connector of choice in the PC world. Add into that the consideration of writing OpenGL and OS X compatible drivers that are fast and stable, and you're getting into some major investment by the firms who manufacture cards. I don't know how much of a return they get from what already exists, but I bet it isn't enough for them to decide it's a justifiable expense to make more models available.

Oh, and you know all those wonderful advancements in the mac that we love and cherish? Things like the G5 towers? We wouldn't have them if Apple didn't have the money to keep sinking into R&D. Lower profit margins mean less cash in the short term (at least), and perhaps a gamble that wouldn't pay off to begin with.

In other words, this is not a simple issue of 'Apple Hates Gamers.' Hell, my 700mhz emac runs most games well enough for my tastes, even if I do lust for something better. I'd love to have a 1.6 G5 with a 5200 FX, right about now. Hell, slide me an imac, and I'd still be better off than I am!
 
Originally posted by thatwendigo
Good luck.

I may lurk, but all I've seen out of Donthurtme on this subject has been this constant rave against Apple and their engineering. For some reason, anyone who even slightly defends the choices Apple has made, and the forces of the market, is an apologist who thinks that macs shouldn't ever be used as gaming machines. Maybe it's never occured to him that companies have to modify the boards to be used in Apple machines, and that an economy of scale applies in these matters. DVI is standard enough, but ADC is not exactly the connector of choice in the PC world. Add into that the consideration of writing OpenGL and OS X compatible drivers that are fast and stable, and you're getting into some major investment by the firms who manufacture cards. I don't know how much of a return they get from what already exists, but I bet it isn't enough for them to decide it's a justifiable expense to make more models available.

Oh, and you know all those wonderful advancements in the mac that we love and cherish? Things like the G5 towers? We wouldn't have them if Apple didn't have the money to keep sinking into R&D. Lower profit margins mean less cash in the short term (at least), and perhaps a gamble that wouldn't pay off to begin with.

In other words, this is not a simple issue of 'Apple Hates Gamers.' Hell, my 700mhz emac runs most games well enough for my tastes, even if I do lust for something better. I'd love to have a 1.6 G5 with a 5200 FX, right about now. Hell, slide me an imac, and I'd still be better off than I am!
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Well said thatwendigo, I completely agree with you. I too have become tired reading Donthurtme's narrow, re-hashed comments, and whenever I have replied in detail, as you have done above, I never seem to get a constructive reply back from him - not that I'm surprised.

But, I digress. There are marketing, economics, engineering, economies of scale, R&D and many other important factors in this business of Apple's, and it's refreshing to see another member on this forum who realizes and fully understands these issues. Excellent post.
 
Being a life-long PC user and, well, increasingly hating it day by day, I dove into the Mac world with my purchase of an eMac towards the end of October. I think it's great. It doesn't everything I want it to and more. I don't see a problem with it. And what's more, the price was right. For $1200 I got a beautiful 17" monitor and a Superdrive. If I wanted a 17" display and a superdrive on an iMac, I would have to pay $1800 MINIMUM. That's just out of my budget range. I don't see a freaking problem with the eMac, and I'm satisfied.

In a few years, I'll be able to get something new, so I'll try for something higher on the rack then. Until that time, my eMac is the best damn computer I've ever owned.

I can play Max Payne, Medal of Honor, and a load of other games too, for that matter. That's not an issue.
 
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Well said thatwendigo, I completely agree with you. I too have become tired reading Donthurtme's narrow, re-hashed comments, and whenever I have replied in detail, as you have done above, I never seem to get a constructive reply back from him - not that I'm surprised.

But, I digress. There are marketing, economics, engineering, economies of scale, R&D and many other important factors in this business of Apple's, and it's refreshing to see another member on this forum who realizes and fully understands these issues. Excellent post.
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Let's put it this way, Shard...

I'm a realist in many ways, and that applies to my computer usage, too. I may be younger than many of my fellow posters (though I suspect I'm older than a few, too), but that doesn't bar me from having a grasp of the issues. True, I'm no prosumer or professional user, but I know that the machine on my desk is perfectly good for anything but the most demanding image manipulation and running brand new games at high settings. Oh, and unlike some of my PC-using friends, I knew that this bargain machine I bought wasn't intended to do those things.

That's the thing that doesn't seem to quite sink in. This is the bottom of the Apple line, and was never meant to be competitive with anything but *gasp* the bottom of the line in PCs.
 
Re: Re: I Love The eMac!

Originally posted by natey
You're hilarious. Not everything has to have a G5 in it. It wouldn't be an eMac if it had a G5 in it (at least not now). What you're describing is an iMac, so just get an iMac.

Neither will the iMac or the headless iMac (which I think is totally stupid and inconceivable) will get a G5 until the PowerBooks get them. Apple has to differentiate the iBooks and the PowerBooks. Both lines are too close now. I think it'll be their priority. Go G5 with the Pro line first, later the consumer line.

And Apple's "concept" has always been all-in-one computers for the consumer line. So unless Apple change their concept, you won't see a headless iMac.
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First, in order for Apple to compete they can't keep the pro and consumers lines divided by the processor, processor speed yes, but not the processor. The current G4 is an old design. If they can put a G5 in the iMac they should, even if they can't put it in the PB yet. Apple needs to do what is right for its customer base and shareholders, and that’s to sell systems that customers want.

The iMac is not an All-In-One design; it has external speakers.
 
For those who are interested, this discussion is also taking place here.

Dont Hurt Me actually replied there, Shard, so you might want to hop over and take a look. I don't think you'll be surprised, but you might find something of interest in the other replies.
 
Originally posted by thatwendigo
For those who are interested, this discussion is also taking place here.

Dont Hurt Me actually replied there, Shard, so you might want to hop over and take a look. I don't think you'll be surprised, but you might find something of interest in the other replies.
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Thanks for the head's up - I always like getting into discussions like this. :cool: But it always seems that once a person like you or me responds with a constructive, well thought out, logical post, dissecting the original post, guys like Donthurtme never reply back. I wonder why? ;)

Anyway, I'm off to that other discussion - this should be fun! <This is another one of those times I need an evil happy face emoticon>
 
Re: Re: Re: I Love The eMac!

Originally posted by Lanbrown
First, in order for Apple to compete they can't keep the pro and consumers lines divided by the processor, processor speed yes, but not the processor. The current G4 is an old design. If they can put a G5 in the iMac they should, even if they can't put it in the PB yet. Apple needs to do what is right for its customer base and shareholders, and that’s to sell systems that customers want.

The iMac is not an All-In-One design; it has external speakers.
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thatwendigo is beating the Apple Drum, i like you think there is no reason to keep crippling the consumer line, G4 has crippled apple for the past few years there is no debate its simply fact. They have to build computers that the consumer wants, right now they are not referring to imac. Emac is a good deal because of the low price and what you get. Imac on the other hand is so far back from the pro line its almost sad, Im sure we will get another childish comment from thatwendigo on my post but i dont care. Its a fact that Motorola is at the back of this race and apple doesnt have to keep going and going with this looser. Steve Jobs said the G4 was a tonka toy and he is right. Apples biggest headache has been this company that cant seem to progress or deliver what apple needs. we all know G5s are coming lets just hope it dont take 2 more years to get there. Iam expecting a new emac and imac in 2004. People like thatwendigo apparently dont like to play games on a mac and therefore seem very content with stuff like G4,Fx5200,slow busses,memory being half used,and a monitor you cant keep. Apples hardware has to catch up to the wintel world it just that simple.
 
Ok maybe instead of eMac going G5 how about 19" ?

CRTs may be the least costly type of momitors to use for entry level computers like the eMac. What if Apple introduced a 19" CRT emac with a minimum 1600 X 1200 display , Radeon 9600 graphics, 60 GB 7200rpm hard drive, Firewire 800 and USB 2.0 , 4X Superdrive , 1.4 GHZ G4 and a standard 512 MB Ram ? This would be the top model and would sell for under $1499 . Then around August they could put the 2 GHZ G5 in the iMac and the 19" emac and the 2.4 , 2.6 , and 3.0 GHZ G5 in the PowerMacs and Powerbooks.

January :

19" G4 emac
2.4 GHZ DP PowerMac
2.6 GHZ DP PowerMac

August :

20" 2 GHZ G5 iMac
19" 2 GHZ G5 emac
3 GHZ DP PowerMac

December:

2.4 GHZ Powerbook
 
Re: Ok maybe instead of eMac going G5 how about 19" ?

Originally posted by RichardCarletta
CRTs may be the least costly type of momitors to use for entry level computers like the eMac. What if Apple introduced a 19" CRT emac with a minimum 1600 X 1200 display ....
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Good idea to expand the display area, but with a 19inch CRT, the weight would be too much, I think. When the iMac went to the 20 inch LCD, the additional weight of the LCD combined with the ballasst needed to keep the thing from tipping over basically doubled the weight!

The eMac is already at around 50 pounds. I don't know if they can really sell something that would be much heavier than that.
 
Re: Ok maybe instead of eMac going G5 how about 19" ?

Originally posted by RichardCarletta
CRTs may be the least costly type of momitors to use for entry level computers like the eMac. What if Apple introduced a 19" CRT emac with a minimum 1600 X 1200 display ....
Click to expand...

Good idea to expand the display area, but with a 19inch CRT, the weight would be too much, I think. When the iMac went to the 20 inch LCD, the additional weight of the LCD combined with the ballasst needed to keep the thing from tipping over basically doubled the weight!

The eMac is already at around 50 pounds. I don't know if they can really sell something that would be much heavier than that.
 
Re: Re: Ok maybe instead of eMac going G5 how about 19" ?

Originally posted by montecristo The eMac is already at around 50 pounds. I don't know if they can really sell something that would be much heavier than that.
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My father bought one, and had to carry it upstairs with a lot of help from my mom! These things are heavy.
 
Thats why the schools like them so much, pretty hard to rip off and carry around. This is just my opinion but i think apple could take out that crt and use a lcd in its place with just a slighty smaller enclosure. Lot less heat generated, easier to produce and could put it in a smaller package. they could use say the 15 inch screen that they use in powerbook and cut a deal with the lcd maker by ordering millions! talk about cost savings.
 
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Thats why the schools like them so much, pretty hard to rip off and carry around. This is just my opinion but i think apple could take out that crt and use a lcd in its place with just a slighty smaller enclosure. Lot less heat generated, easier to produce and could put it in a smaller package. they could use say the 15 inch screen that they use in powerbook and cut a deal with the lcd maker by ordering millions! talk about cost savings.
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I just don't see the point.
What is an eMac with an LCD but an iMac?
Unless the iMac becomes a G5 and the eMac stays G4 why would they both become LCD?
 
I agree - I think a LCD eMac would not be a bad thing at all, and is definitely possible with the G5 iMacs coming out in a few months - there will be enough product differentiation to warrant a LCD eMac.

I'm really indifferent as to whether the eMac receives an LCD or not, but definitely could see it happening and wouldn't be opposed.
 
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
But do you really think G5 iMacs are coming out anytime soon?
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Honestly, my hunch is around summer this year - maybe even late spring. We're used to seeing slower release times for things like this, but that was thanks to the Motorola world, and we are now in the IBM world - I see updates and progression happening a lot faster now than what were used to. With the PowerMacs due for speed boosts soon, there is no reason we couldn't see a 1.6 or 1.8 G5 in an iMac, since the PMs will have possibly up to 2.6 GHz at the time, with the 3 GHz G5s around the corner a few months after that. (Just speculating of course!)

But, that's just my opinion. I also think when we do see a G5 iMac, it may completely break the "iMac model" - it may no longer be a consumer-level machine, and become a mid-level machine, between the eMacs (and old G4 iMacs), and the PowerMacs. It might become more of a "digital hub", and actually run $3000-$3500. But it'll have all the goodies the PMs have, just a little more stripped down. Just my crazy speculation and predictions though. :cool:
 
What about a glass panel screen in front of the LCD ?

Put a glass pane barrier in front of the LCD ( like a window pane built in the case ) to protect it . Keep the same case , inset a LCD in the place where the CRT was and mount a pane of glass in front of it in the case. Install a huge fan or two in the space where the CRT would have been . Maybe there would still be space inside to include the board from a Formac Studio HDTV to make it " cable ready " and Install a 2 GHZ G5 . :p
 
Re: What about a glass panel screen in front of the LCD ?

Originally posted by RichardCarletta
Put a glass pane barrier in front of the LCD ( like a window pane built in the case ) to protect it . Keep the same case , inset a LCD in the place where the CRT was and mount a pane of glass in front of it in the case. Install a huge fan or two in the space where the CRT would have been . Maybe there would still be space inside to include the board from a Formac Studio HDTV to make it " cable ready " and Install a 2 GHZ G5 . :p
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You just had to throw that last little detail in there, didn't ya? ;)
 
Originally posted by backspinner
My father bought one, and had to carry it upstairs with a lot of help from my mom! These things are heavy.
Click to expand...

Eh, I carry mine on my own, but I'm a big guy. It is one of the heaviest machines I've ever owned, though, weighing in at. subjectively, a bit more than that 17" monitor I keep around for the legacy hardware that I'm currently restoring. :D

Originally posted by ~Shard~
But, that's just my opinion. I also think when we do see a G5 iMac, it may completely break the "iMac model" - it may no longer be a consumer-level machine, and become a mid-level machine, between the eMacs (and old G4 iMacs), and the PowerMacs. It might become more of a "digital hub", and actually run $3000-$3500. But it'll have all the goodies the PMs have, just a little more stripped down. Just my crazy speculation and predictions though.
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Intriguing idea, Shard. I'm going to take what you and Richard said and run with it for a moment, and see what you two think. This is a game I've played with my dad, through email, ever since I started actively following the Apple hardware lineup and the rumormill.

Apple eMac/iMac lineup, circa Spring-Summer 2004:

eMac
17-inch LCD (glass fronted)
1.33ghz/1.42ghz
256/512MB PC2800 RAM
60/80GB UltraATA
ATI Radeon 8500
Combo/Superdrive
Airport Extreme Ready
2 Firewire, 3 USB
10/100 Ethernet
$799/$1199

iMac
15/17/20-inch LCD
1.6/1.8/1.8ghz G5
256/512/512MB PC3200 RAM
80/120/160GB SATA HD
FX 5200/FX 5200/Radeon 9600
Combo/SuperDrive/SuperDrive
Apple Pro Speakers
Airport Extreme Ready/Airport Extreme Ready/Airport Extreme
Bluetooth Ready
2 Firewire, 1 Firewire 800, 5 USB 2.0
Analog Audio/Analog Audio/Digital Audio
10/100 Ethernet
$1599/$1999/$2399

I went and poked around at component costs to check on the price scale, too. The HD difference is roughly $20-30 for a Maxtor 7200RPM SATA at each jump in the iMacs. The graphics cards are things Apple already has in quantity and possesses the drivers for. I'm not sure how much the onboard audio unit costs, but it seems likely to be something they also have in quantity. The one real, hard guess I have to make is the processor, but stories have placed G5s as being cheaper, per-unit, than G4s. This would almost certainly require either a huge fan or a case redesign, but I'm not opposed to changing the form factor. It also keeps a nice, tight grouping in the product line, with the high end iMac still being lower speced than a bottom powermac. Incidentally, it also makes a nearly contiguous path from emac to imac, since there's a hop of $400 at each step.

Thoughts? Criticism or comments?
 
Incidentally, I'd love to be able to ditch that G4 in the eMac for, say, a 750VX running at 2ghz. That's just me, though.

My god, I want that chip to be real and as amazing as it sounds. For the heat output, you could cram two of them into a portable, and I want a dual-processor laptop. I mean... You want to talk about a Centrino killer? Take two of those "super G4s" and mate them to the higher bus and actual usage of DDR, with a newer ASIC and some faster parts, and you've got a smoking portable processor that doesn't literally smoke the way a G5 would. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by ~Shard~
But, that's just my opinion. I also think when we do see a G5 iMac, it may completely break the "iMac model" - it may no longer be a consumer-level machine, and become a mid-level machine, between the eMacs (and old G4 iMacs), and the PowerMacs.
Click to expand...
I guess this is just a pet peeve of mine, but why is the iMac considered a "consumer" machine. Is it just because it has slower processor, memory, etc. than the PowerMac. Because cost wise it ceased to be a "consumer" long ago in my mind.
When I bought my iMac DV SE some four years ago. $1200 was much less than it would have cost to buy a PowerMac with DVD-ROM drive and a monitor. Now the iMac is ridiculously overpriced for what you get. You can get an refurbished G5 and studio display for ($2300) for barely more that a 17" iMac with the same amount of memory and same size hard drive ($2100).
Are sales figures availible the iMac since it's release to today? When it came out it was a huge product for Apple. Now it is just an overpiced novelty computer.
The iMac line needs a major overhaul. Faster processors, faster memory, and most importantly a lower price.
If you have $2000+ to spend on a computer you can do much better while still buying a Mac!
Just my opinion.
 
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