I never thought that the metadata associated with the files is not stored. Interesting observation.
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Empty the trash PARTLY
- Thread starter duskdawn
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I never thought that the metadata associated with the files is not stored. Interesting observation.
Hmmm...
Yeah, but I don't toss things in the recycle bin with plans to take them out later. Trash, garbage and recycle bins eliminate stuff for me. Sure, some stuff is recycled, but I sure as hell don't know the difference.
So your saying Apple CAN'T add any features because the name has it locked in for 25 years and it would defy logic? What if Apple changed the name, would it then be possible to add a feature or two?
Also "urban neighborhoods as well as apartment buildings" have a garbage bin and not likely to have a trash bin (since most people don't know trash from garbage).
Yeah, but I don't toss things in the recycle bin with plans to take them out later. Trash, garbage and recycle bins eliminate stuff for me. Sure, some stuff is recycled, but I sure as hell don't know the difference.
That's why they should have kept the Recycle concept from NeXTSTEP -- which is what OS X is.
Before we changed to locked burn-bins, I had occaisionally pulled paperwork from the trash that I realized was not actually trash yet
But this one-delete-fits-all concept is outdated with with removable media. It's not uncommon to leave files in the Trash for some time, until I'm sure I want to delete them. But, with a flash drive, I need to delete it immediately to free up space on it. With OS X, deleting files on a thumb drive requires I delete all files in the trash. There's no logic there.
By your logic, I must empty the trash in every waste bin in my house if I want to solely empty the one in my office. Logically I should be able to empty but one of my various trash bins.
I don't know why some Mac users get so bent out of shape over adding this feature. It takes nothing away from normal usage. It is transparent and gracefully reverts to traditional behavior. But would offer more modern convenience and power to those want it.
I would welcome the feature, however, I think the habit people have of putting things in the trash/recycle/garbage that they're not really ever going to delete is very dangerous. The people that think of it as storage really need to rethink where they keep things.
Personally, I can't stand anything in my trash can and normally empty it as soon as I add something to it. CMD+DEL, SHIFT-CMD+DEL. Just like that.
Personally, I can't stand anything in my trash can and normally empty it as soon as I add something to it. CMD+DEL, SHIFT-CMD+DEL. Just like that.
good idea man! i now have Stuff > Junk > Trash
when i used Windows i used shift-delete a lot which deletes a file bypassing the recycle bin and i got into a habit of using and deleted an important folder. i had to buy recovery software to get it back
now cmd+delete and then cmd+shift+delete (with the Trash warning disabled) is getting into a habit. your junk folder idea will eliminate any permanent deletes. thanks! i couldnt even think of this!
You're preaching to the choir here. It doesn't matter if certain Mac users get bent out of shape over adding features or not, we are not the ones you need to convince.
Voice your concerns to Apple.
But to answer your question, it's because most switchers want to add Windows' features rather than make suggestions for something new and original to the Mac OS. If I want to run Windows I'll buy a Dell.
Who needs a Windows Recycle Bin when you've got Time Machine? It'll save things more important than inadvertently trashed items (but it will do that, too).
But the question still remains: why on earth would someone intentionally place something in a space called "Trash" when they weren't really done with it? I don't think that's a fault of the Mac OS not having a "feature," it's a matter of Windows engendering inappropriate habits.
Or, what part of >rm filename.ext don't you understand?
But the question still remains: why on earth would someone intentionally place something in a space called "Trash" when they weren't really done with it? I don't think that's a fault of the Mac OS not having a "feature," it's a matter of Windows engendering inappropriate habits.
Or, what part of >rm filename.ext don't you understand?
That's a counterproductive attitude: refusing new features simply because they came from Windows. Even if they're better than what OS X currently has.
If you had never seen these features in Windows, would you like them? If Mac innovated partial delete in Trash, would you proudly use it then? Is it only because Windows does it, or you really think that it's a poor idea?
It's not that it's coming from "Windows" that annoys me it's the excessive feature requests that are coming from recent Windows switchers. Honestly I don't understand why any of the recent switchers left Windows to come to the Mac? The problem is they basically want the Mac to be Windows and at some point they need to get over it that the Mac OS is not Windows. Was there something wrong with Windows that made them switch because it certainly was when I switched.
New features and ideas to make the system more productive are always welcome and I fully support it but when I buy a Garmin I don't want it to run like a TomTom.
Features from a different product don't necessarily make the system better, it just satisfies certain people. I would like to see new features be implemented.
This is why it gets annoying sometimes about switchers wanting Windows features, it's not just the Trash it's all the rest:
Finder-they want it more like Explorer. They also prefer a start menu.
Green Button-they want it to act like the Windows maximize button.
The close button-they want it to quit every app like Windows does it.
Dock-they want it to act like the Task Bar.
Drag N Drop-they want it to Cut N Paste instead like Windows.
Right Click-they feel that double tap is not enough, the trackpad button should have 2 buttons like Windows PC's.
Menu Bar-they want the menus to reside on the apps like the way Windows does it.
I could go on and I'm sure you've seen all these plus more so I hope you see where I'm getting at? It never stops.
I welcome change especially when it comes to computers, I'm not at all hell bent on keeping the Mac OS exactly as it is but I left Windows because I was dissatisfied with the way it is, I'm not getting why the recent switchers leave Windows?
If something works for me I am not going to switch to something else. The only reason I would switch is if the bad outweighs the good and if that's the case I don't care what I have to give up as long as I get something better. I don't see that same attitude coming from recent switchers. Their attitude is, "I want a Mac but I want it to act like Windows".
How about suggesting something new for the Mac OS? Is there anything wrong with that??
I don't know why others switched; I switched for the sake of switching and thinking OS X would be an improvement for personal use. It has been. But here's a little secret: Windows does some things better and OS X would be improved by learning from Windows. The list you mention shows that:
Finder - Finder has real weaknesses and could learn some powerful tricks from Explorer, like remembering every folder's unique settings. This is a core feature of OS X that has been criticized since OS X 10.0 by Mac users smarter than me.
Green Button - green button doesn't work as intended and can only be improved with revision
Red Button - No complaints here. It makes sense.
Dock - The Dock has some weirdnesses and should be scrubbed. It violates basic Apple rules of physical stability and Fitts' law.
Drag N Drop - Spring Loaded folders are great. But I still miss keyboard cut/past for file manipulation.
Right Click - I like the single-button laptop and two-finger tap. But I understand how people can miss hardware that's been in use for 20+ years to great effect
Menu Bar - With large and multiple monitor displays becoming common, this needs to be rethought. You lose the Fitts law efficiency when the menu is 2000 pixels away and across a resolution jump of different monitors.
OS X is great, but not ideal. This trash issue is one of several features where it trails Windows. If there is a better way, then Apple should do it. Failing that, simply copying Windows would be a real improvement.
And as for commenting to Apple: interestingly, they make it hard to find their bug / feature submission page. Hmm... But I've hunted it down and submitted several glaring problems with iMovie, Time Machine, and Numbers. I guess I should make a comment on Trash
Hey guys, I have it all worked out. But first I want to compliment Juiien on Jul 2 for telling it like it is - PC recycle has it hands down over the mac. Anyway, do this -- in applications create a new folder called "TEMP TRASH". Then drag it to desktop and set it right alongside the trash basket and keep it there forever. Then whatever you delete, delete to TEMP TRASH, and rename the trash basket (you have to do this in your mind) rename it the TOILET BOWL. Now all of your trash is in the TEMP TRASH, which is flexible. You can drag any or all of the files you want to the "toilet bowl", pull the handle (that is, click empty trash) and they are flushed away forever. Here it would be good to add the sound effect of flushing a toilet. Let's work on that. martyaa
Hmm...
No, because it still doesn't make sense. Trash is for files not to be used any more. If you want to keep it, don't put it in the trash.
Really don't see what the argument is here.
Sure, I suppose the computer 'recycles' the files it trashes into open space on the hard drive, but I still like the trash idea better.
No, because it still doesn't make sense. Trash is for files not to be used any more. If you want to keep it, don't put it in the trash.
Really don't see what the argument is here.
Sure, I suppose the computer 'recycles' the files it trashes into open space on the hard drive, but I still like the trash idea better.
It's not about a place to store files, it's about ACCIDENTALLY deleting a file (maybe you are perfect and don't make a mistake or need Trash but for the rest of us) and needing to recover and restore it. Using your argument you don't need Trash at all but just a delete file command and it is 100% gone for good (the way MS-DOS was before Windows). Trash was invented to have a backup way to recover files you ACCIDENTALLY deleted (what else is it there for?). So what is the big deal about improving upon what you intended in the first place (to be able to recover ACCIDENTLY deleted files). After all MS took Apple's Trash idea and added to Windows while improving upon it.
Last month when I switch and was moving my files from Vista to OS X I ACCIDENTALLY deleted 4 different and unrelated files. I was somewhat surprised that I could not just select the 3 files and restore them. Not a big deal but why not make OS X better (or at least as good) in every way?
It's not blasphemy to point out a weakness (however small or insignificant it may be to you) that OS X has over Windows.
Actually Trash and Recycle Bin work about the same way. The files are keep just as they are intact and in the same place (not moved). The names are just deleted and removed from the folder.
Yeah...
There are very, very few times when a file is accidentally deleted. The very act of moving an unused file to the trash (or with a key command) makes it a deliberate act.
And yes, I've been fortunate never to have needed to use file recovery, as that's really what backups are for. I can see having to use it because of hard drive failure, which is TRULY an accident.
I mean, I get the way the Recycle Bin on Windows works, I just don't understand the need to have a computer intelligently manage your trash folder. Unless you desperately need the space, trashing files isn't even all that necessary.
There are very, very few times when a file is accidentally deleted. The very act of moving an unused file to the trash (or with a key command) makes it a deliberate act.
And yes, I've been fortunate never to have needed to use file recovery, as that's really what backups are for. I can see having to use it because of hard drive failure, which is TRULY an accident.
I mean, I get the way the Recycle Bin on Windows works, I just don't understand the need to have a computer intelligently manage your trash folder. Unless you desperately need the space, trashing files isn't even all that necessary.
Dave my friend you are indeed one of the people that I don't get at all. You switched for the sake of switching?? Did you even check out OS X before buying? Your list of issues with OS X are quite extensive and the fact you would even say that voicing your concerns to Apple is a complete waste of time just shows that you switching from Windows made no sense.
You barely mentioned anything positive about the Mac OS system rather you found many more reasons to stay on Windows. Personally I think you wasted your money using a Mac and it sounds like you are much better off running the Windows system as it works better for you.
You are definitely one of the people I question as to why you left Windows. Leaving a system that "works" for you in favor of a system that "doesn't work" you and you tolerate for whatever reason is counter-productive.
If you know for you sure that Apple ignores any suggestions from customers (which is not true based on the translucent menus being changed
) then voicing what we all hate about Macs on this forum is also counter-productive unless you're asking someone for a solution. Unfortunately most switchers come to this forum to complain rather than ask for a solution.So how much praise for OS X must one heap on before you are allowed a criticism (or can OS X be criticized at all without a ritual beheading?)?
If I list 10 things that I love about OS X can I then mention 1 that I think needs improvement? How about a 50 to 1 ratio? I love OS X but it's not (and never) will be perfect. There is and always will be room for improvement (even for OS X).Just do be clear, I love everything about my Mac. Every single feature, I prefer over Windows. Everything. There is not one bit of Windows that I prefer. I would lose a part of my body before I gave up my Mac.
I love the fact that the Trash forces people to use it correctly, and if they want to use it improperly they have to use the Terminal. I love the Terminal! I just absolutely am in love with Mac OS X.
I have to use Windows at work. I have nothing but problems all day long. Coming home to my Mac always makes my day.
I love the fact that the Trash forces people to use it correctly, and if they want to use it improperly they have to use the Terminal. I love the Terminal! I just absolutely am in love with Mac OS X.
I have to use Windows at work. I have nothing but problems all day long.
Coming home to my Mac always makes my day.
So how much praise for OS X must one heap on before you are allowed a criticism (or can OS X be criticized at all without a ritual beheading?)?
Seems to me that a lot of the consternation over a lot of changes or "improvements" being suggested is for what has already been stated, in that they're not so much necessarily improvements (in that it really does work just fine, nothing's really broken here), but changes to make the OS more Windows-like.
It's the same in any competitive marketplace, regardless of the subject whether it be cars or airlines or toasters or phones. A manufacturer decides to do things in a certain way, and while they can and will always seek ways to improve the product and make it more competitive, they will certainly not match the competition, feature-for-feature, else they end up having no competitive distinction.
If you were (for example) a Chevy owner all your life, then decided to "switch" to Ford, what would make more sense: constantly seeking things you don't like about the Ford (like switch placement, controls, etc.), going back to Chevy, or just learning how the Ford does things and moving on? Would it be reasonable to expect that Ford should change the dashboard to match Chevy's because some switchers missed their old layout?
OS (and all product) choice is always a matter of compromise, and always on the user's part. To gain some things you feel you need, you have to give up others. Not to say that there isn't a feature or capability that 80% of the users want and shouldn't be added, but when the feature set a switcher demands is basically a description of the left-behind OS, than it's reasonable to ask why they switched in the first place.
I am not saying you're wrong, or that you should just accept what Apple provides, just trying to give some points to ponder.
Anyone ever try creating a new folder in Windows with a keyboard command? There is no simply command for new folder, but you can delete a file just by pressing one key... I don't get it. By the way, the only way to make a new folder in Windows XP is to press all of these keys in the correct order: First hit the contextual menu button, then press w, then press f. Whew, too many keys to press. Also, I hate how if you start typing too quickly after a new folder has been made, it doesn't take the first key stroke.... grrrrr.... I hate using Windows! (But that's not the only reason)
Yes, I switched for sake of switching. I've used many of the consumer computer system over the years, and realized that I was stagnating with XP. Computers were no longer fun. Worse, the promised Vista features that would have made for an amazing system were dropped. I've played with Macs over the years, used NeXT in college and my wife has an OS X system. I researched it and concluded that I wanted a 10.5 system. It was delayed and I had to buy a 10.4 system, then upgraded to Leopard and iLife 08 three months later. (I also bought XP Home for Bootcamp / Parallels to ease the transition.)
I like OS X a lot. I recommend it to friends and coworkers. Time Machine is the kller app and unlike many, prefer iMovie 08 to 06. Expose and Dashboard are true productivity features for me and I miss them at work.
But OS X isn't perfect. It has minor (green button) and major (Finder) weaknesses. And based on Mac Quicken reviews, I must stay with MS Money in Parallels for the forseeable future.
And it boggles me that fans feel they must whitewash the real limitations and must pretend to be superior to Windows in all attributes. Pointing out problems and discussing possible improvements in no way detracts from the real strengths of superior attributes of OS X.
Or you click the New Folder link in the sidebar...
The lack of a keyboard shortcut is a stupid, and long-standing oversight in Windows. I can't fathom why it was never added (maybe in Vista?). So nice having the Mac shortcut.
Or you click the New Folder link in the sidebar...
Yeah, I know but, there is a certain someone where I work that hates the sidebar and always disables it. Plus, then you'd still have to mouse around to make the new folder, then go back to the keyboard to start typing. Imagine if you could hit control-n and already have your hands on the keyboard to start typing the folder name?
Your point is well taken and I agree with you on this part however one thing to understand that in all fairness it's the fault of the people complaining that puts others on the defense.
Example, you said it yourself, Windows does some things better and the Mac OS should have these "Windows" features and the Mac OS could take lessons from Windows...
All of that says, "Windows Is Superior" and it will put (for the lack of a better word) fanboy's on the defense since this is a Mac forum and we are not here to entertain what Windows does better just as Windows' forums don't care to continually entertain what the Mac OS does better, it creates animosity.
I'll bet some of the fanboy's would cool down if you just recommended improvements for OS X without bringing up the superiority of Windows. Remember most of this forum are switchers rather we switched 10 years ago (ME) or recently.
As to why some people don't want to accept that Windows does some things better, well JohnNotBeatle in post #43 said it best.
Sorry, I know the forum topic was about emptying Trash so I hope this discussion ends up there...