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Discussion in 'Current Events' started by rdowns, Dec 22, 2009.
They should be fired and charged with a crime.
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Something here doesn't make sense. Either there's a part of the story missing, or this story is NOT supposed to make sense to normal people. :confuzzled:
It is an odd story... why are there all these on-lookers reporting on the behavior of these two instead of intervening or calling 911, which, admittedly, is what one usually does? Were they wearing EMT uniforms, and were they currently or previously working in the role of EMT? It's a sad case... it's certainly bad publicity for FDNY also, even if it turns out this woman could not have been saved.
P.S. Now this is going to get dragged into the PRSI quite likely, but... does NY still have a "Good Samaritan" statute that punishes failure to deliver reasonable aid? As I understand it, the law also specifically shields those who attempt to help in an emergency from being sued, does it not? In that case, strange to not intervene (although it does seem like many other people were standing around doing nothing).
CNN's version of the story includes a couple of details that these other two have (surprise!) left out:
Phone records will presumably show whether or not Ms. Jackson did in fact call 911. And if what the spokesman says is true, they probably weren't much more prepared than anyone else on the scene to administer medical care.
I'm guessing that as the story unfolds, we'll find out it's not so clear-cut as the initial report would indicate.
Has it been said if they were on duty or off duty? From the excerpts here I haven't read it. It makes it sound like they are.
This will be interesting to see what happens. If they are off duty, well I would really like to see how this plays out. If they were on duty shame on them.
First, this story as presented by the availble media is incomplete. Condemning them on sound bites is premature.
Second, sounds like they are dispatchers...not actively in the field actually dealing with emergencies. Perhaps they were drawn to that position because they didn't like, or were not good at, direct patient care.
Third, you can have all the training in the world, but they have no resuscitation equipment, no oxygen, no defibrillator. In BLS/ACLS, the first thing you do is notify 911.
That having been said, sometimes, unless protected by a comprehensive "Good Sam" law, healthcare workers are sued for care given in the field. Care that is not covered by malpractice insurance. However, right is right. Unfortunately, too many people don't want to get involved. Did teh other patrons of the restaurant help in any way...the articles don't say. Do the employess of the restaruant have an emergency action plan they adhered to...the articles don't say.
We'll see how this plays out...
There probably WAS nothing they could do, especially without any supplies or equipments. At best, they could provide the most rudimentary of assistance. Telling the folks their to call 911 was the right call. But walking out of the cafe while the lady was gasping for air? That just ain't right. They should have stayed and help as best they could until a properly equipped team arrived. The lady probably would have died anyways, but people's opinions would be sky high.
Well the question clearly the media is leaving out is if they were on duty or in uniform. Since it was not stated I am going to assume that they were off duty and out of uniform since they would of reported it other wise because it makes a bigger story.
Assuming off duty and street clothing they did not want to risk a law suit for not having the correct equipment on them. That is money they have to waste on defense. Also add in what he union stated they may of not been qualified to deal with patients which goes back to the law suit
I would point out a member on these boards is an emt and stated that if he was not on duty and in street clothing he tries to not help people for fear of law suits. Sad that them not getting involved more than likely traces back to fear of being sued
If she was "gasping for air" then there was nothing to do but wait. Gasping means (1) the airway is open and (2) she was still concioous. When this happens the standard thing to do is call 911 and wait. But also to observe to watch that things don't get worse and keep the patent comfortable as you can while waiting. If they do get worse then there are things you can do, such as CPR.
Exactly right. There is virtually nothing you ca do besides saying 'keep coughing' which is pretty much useless, as it's not like the person is going to decide to old their breath. I think that everything has become slightly disarrayed in the stress, that 'Jackson' walked out to activate EMS, and 'Green' likely went to assist/provide additional information.
Look, I wasn't there, but I sincerely doubt that any person with even basic medical training would have sauntered out of the shop with coffees in hand as these stories are making it sound like. More than likely stupid witnesses.
I just helps illuminate the American condition.
"How horrible look those guys aren't doing anything to help that lady, I tell you if I wasn't busy texting my GF I would talk about how people should help that lady:.
It's always the responsibility of someone else.
This is messed up.
The media is horrible, but I'm not so sure in this case. True, they couldn't do anything since they probably didn't have anything on them, but they could have at least stayed and provided some comfort?, if not to the victim, to the onlookers.
I used to work right next door, and the Fire department headquarters is about 300 ft. across a courtyard (outdoor open space) from there.
The problem with getting help there is that it is a secure area, meaning barriers / security to get into the vacinity. Someone has to physically remove the barriers in order for them to get to the place.
What's really messed up is that it's a pretty self contained area. You have a tendency to see the same folks all the time.
As others have said, without being there and without knowing the full story, it's very difficult to know if there WAS anything to be done other than call 911.
A few years ago I was having lunch at a terminal food court in an airport. I saw a lady stand up, coughing, obviously choking on something. Someone immediately went and stood behind her, put their arms around and began attempting Heimlich thrusts. While she was still coughing.
Now, my first aid was a little rusty so the only thing I could truly affirm was "that doesn't seem quite right to me". If I had been a little more lucid, I would have stood up immediately and yelled, "HEY! STOP! Let her go!" but in that moment I wasn't sure what to do.
So kudos to whoever that guy was for thinking to stop and help, but he didn't do it right, and could very easily have made the situation worse. What's a guy to do? It's not always an easy call.
Most people expect someone else to "do something". I don't trust anyone in public to help if I have a issue and if they do then it's just a bonus. The EU has some bystander laws that make it a crime to stand there taking pictures with your phone while someone is being hurt or is in an emergency situation. I like this idea because if you aren't helping get the hell away you are not needed. And by helping in the case of the original story it could be as simple as laying her down and sitting with her trying to keep her calm...something ANYONE could do training or not. Taking pictures or stepping over someone with your lunch deserves a reckoning in any case.
Did anyone call 911?
There was a case a few years ago of someone who bled to death on a London bus because noone stopped the bleeding even though the culprit had left the scene. They didn't want to get blood on their clothes .