Enable Quartz 2D Extreme full-time


iBunny

macrumors 65816
Apr 15, 2004
1,254
0
I am a little lost. I have an iBook that is the current generation. I know my video card does not support core image. But Can I / Should I run Quartz 2D Extreme? or is that the same thing as Core Image?

Im a little lost. :( sorry
 

toneloco2881

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2005
357
5
iBunny said:
I am a little lost. I have an iBook that is the current generation. I know my video card does not support core image. But Can I / Should I run Quartz 2D Extreme? or is that the same thing as Core Image?

Im a little lost. :( sorry
Your video card also won't support Quartz 2D.
 

dr_lha

macrumors 68000
Oct 8, 2003
1,587
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toneloco2881 said:
Your video card also won't support Quartz 2D.
Not true I thought. Coreimage needs a shader 2.0 enabled card, but I was under the impression that any card that supported Quartz Extreme would also support Quartz 2D Extreme.

Its a completely different thing from CoreImage.
 

Daveman Deluxe

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jun 17, 2003
1,555
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Corvallis, Oregon
iBunny said:
I am a little lost. I have an iBook that is the current generation. I know my video card does not support core image. But Can I / Should I run Quartz 2D Extreme? or is that the same thing as Core Image?

Im a little lost. :( sorry
Quartz 2D Extreme runs on any GeForce FX GPU and on all ATI Radeon graphics cards numbered 9600 and higher.

iBunny said:
So what is it I run right now with 10.3.9?
You run Quartz Extreme, which differs from Quartz 2D Extreme in that in the former, only the Quartz Compositor is run on the GPU, whereas the latter runs the Quartz Compositor, backing stores, and the Quartz 2D rendering code all on the GPU. This results in decreased processor load since the CPU only has to send instructions to the GPU instead of also being required to render those instructions. It also decreases latency since data does not have to be shuffled in and out of system RAM to draw the screen.

Quartz Extreme runs on any NVIDIA GeForce 2 or higher and also on any ATI Radeon card. It requires 16 MB of VRAM.

SLCentral said:
So, does enabling it make it faster or slower if I have a Core Image capable card (9700 Mobility 128MB)?
The issue is not that your graphics card is Core Image-capable, but that it is a Radeon 9600 or higher. Quartz 2D Extreme should improve frame rates, and it should also free up your CPU to do other processing tasks, thereby making your whole system faster.

Daveway said:
Why would I want to do this? Does it accelerate the GUI even more?
You need to re-launch any running applications to see any difference because an application has to know at launch time that the computer is Quartz 2D Extreme enabled.

I should add the caveat that you may see display artifacts with Quartz 2D Extreme turned on. It is disabled by default in Tiger presumably because Apple could not get it working quite perfectly. I can't imagine this causing any kind of application crashes or loss of data however, but nevertheless run at your own risk.
 

dirtymatt

macrumors member
Apr 27, 2005
36
0
Daveman Deluxe said:
The issue is not that your graphics card is Core Image-capable, but that it is a Radeon 9600 or higher. Quartz 2D Extreme should improve frame rates, and it should also free up your CPU to do other processing tasks, thereby making your whole system faster.
Actually don't both Core Image and Q2DX both require a Shader 2.0 compatible video card. So while they don't depend on each other, they have the same requirements. I have it enabled on my machine (and have rebooted since then to make sure everything saw it). I'd say overall my machine does feel snappier, but maybe I'm just making that up.
 

andrewfee

macrumors 6502
Aug 29, 2004
467
2
While I like the performance increases it gives in some situations, (scrolling in Safari is noticably faster for example) you can definitely see why it's disabled. The dock is noticably slower, and if an icon is bouncing, it slows things right down. (try scrolling in safari as something is bouncing)

The same applies to progress bars being onscreen.

I'm sure Apple will add it in a 10.4.x update when these issues have been fixed.
 

Daveman Deluxe

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jun 17, 2003
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Corvallis, Oregon
dirtymatt said:
Actually don't both Core Image and Q2DX both require a Shader 2.0 compatible video card. So while they don't depend on each other, they have the same requirements. I have it enabled on my machine (and have rebooted since then to make sure everything saw it). I'd say overall my machine does feel snappier, but maybe I'm just making that up.
Ars Technica said:
That brings up perhaps the biggest caveat about Quartz 2D Extreme. Like Quartz Extreme before it, Quartz 2D Extreme is not supported by all video cards. It requires an ATI Radeon 9600 or NVIDIA GeForce FX or better. In terms of technology, Quartz 2D Extreme requires support for the ARB_fragment_program OpenGL extension.
I'm not sure whether all GeForce FXes and all Radeon 9600s and higher have Pixel Shader 2.0--I just know the models of cards that are required. If these happen to correlate, that's fine.
 

Daveman Deluxe

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jun 17, 2003
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Corvallis, Oregon
I've seen a couple of peculiarities when using Quartz 2D Extreme. Sometimes when switching to an application with multiple windows open, the windows will not be stacked properly along the z-axis for a couple of frames. i.e. the bottom window will appear on top briefly.

Also, when using the Command-Tab application switcher, the switcher may not disappear immediately when I release the key combination--sometimes it will stop disappearing when it's partially translucent and then finish the job, sometimes it will remain opaque and then disappear with no transition to transparency.

I have encountered nothing that caused data loss or application crashes.
 

brap

macrumors 68000
May 10, 2004
1,701
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Nottingham
Just come across this hack, and did a few tests with XBench. For this, I used only the video tests -- that is: Quartz, OpenGL and Interface.

Powerbook 1.33/Rev.c FX5200.

Sans hack:
Total score/all three tests -- 155

Hack enabled:
Total score/all three tests -- 175

Both Quartz and Interface tests were vastly quicker with 2D Extreme enabled. Jaw-droppingly so.

The Batman Begins HD H.264 trailer now runs smoothly! :eek: :eek:
Can't seem to replicate the issues andrewfee is talking about regarding the dock, either :)
 

thecrunge

macrumors member
Jun 23, 2003
34
0
Oxnard,CA
Check This Out!

I enabled Quartz 2D Extreme on my iBook 800 G3. It works great, everything
feels a little bit faster! I included a pic so you guys can see.
 

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Fredstar

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2004
595
0
Near London
i decided to turn it off, while i did notice quite big improvements there must be a reason why Apple have it disabled...
Although, just running the same HD H.264 videos in a smaller window only now gives me 15-17 fps compared to a solid 24fps with Q2d enabled and once again 1080p movies are running at 8-10 instead of on average 13-16 fps. Definately big results, but i am just going to wait till 10.4.1 and see if it enables for compatable gfx's.
 

Androit

macrumors member
Apr 4, 2005
33
0
Houston
thecrunge said:
I enabled Quartz 2D Extreme on my iBook 800 G3. It works great, everything
feels a little bit faster! I included a pic so you guys can see.

How did you enable it, when I try it in Quartz Debug it says Quartz 2D Extreme not supported and the option is grayed out.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Androit said:
How did you enable it, when I try it in Quartz Debug it says Quartz 2D Extreme not supported and the option is grayed out.
I think if you use the sudo defaults write method, then you can change the flag whether or not you have support. I don't know if this is somehow actually changing the way a non-supported machine works, or if it's psychological. ;)

I guess, the fact that the iBook G3 doesn't support QE2D would explain why that poster doesn't see any negatives to running it, and so many others report that it's buggy. :D Hmmm...maybe I'll try turning it on, on my iBook G4, for giggles.

EDIT: Executing the command did not have the effect of listing QE2D on my system profile. Do you have to reboot?
 

Fredstar

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2004
595
0
Near London
mkrishnan said:
I think if you use the sudo defaults write method, then you can change the flag whether or not you have support. I don't know if this is somehow actually changing the way Fred's machine works, or if it's psychological. ;)

No offense to Fred, hopefully, but the fact that the iBook G3 doesn't support QE2D would explain why he doesn't see any negatives to running it, and so many others report that it's buggy. :D Hmmm...maybe I'll try turning it on, on my iBook G4, for giggles.

EDIT: Executing the command did not have the effect of listing QE2D on my system profile. Do you have to reboot?
If you are referring to Fred as in me, i have a iMac G5 as below so it is supported.
I just enabled and disabled. There is definately a increase of about 3-5 fps when playing back H.264 high def material - i was using the TobyMac as material.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Fredstar said:
If you are referring to Fred as in me, i have a iMac G5 as below so it is supported.
I just enabled and disabled. There is definately a increase of about 3-5 fps when playing back H.264 high def material - i was using the TobyMac as material.
Oops, sorry! I got your post and thecrunge's mixed up. The person with the G3 and QE2D enabled.... :eek:
 

csubear

macrumors 6502a
Aug 22, 2003
613
0
Fredstar said:
i decided to turn it off, while i did notice quite big improvements there must be a reason why Apple have it disabled...
Although, just running the same HD H.264 videos in a smaller window only now gives me 15-17 fps compared to a solid 24fps with Q2d enabled and once again 1080p movies are running at 8-10 instead of on average 13-16 fps. Definately big results, but i am just going to wait till 10.4.1 and see if it enables for compatable gfx's.
I enabled the Q2DE, and i found that my 720p videos went from 15-20 to 20-24fps on windowed playback. Really good for my little powerbook!
 

thecrunge

macrumors member
Jun 23, 2003
34
0
Oxnard,CA
I've also enabled Quartz 2D Extreme on my QuickSilver and the difference is amazing. Playing halo with everything on high feels alot smoother. Also my xbench scores nearly doubled in the opengl, quartz, and user interface benchmarks! :cool:
 

Lacero

macrumors 604
Jan 20, 2005
6,639
2
I haven't noticed a big change on my PB 12" 1.33Ghz. CPU utilization remains a constant 19% when moving a Finder window whether Q2DE is enabled or not. I do like the promise of moving all elements, such as text characters, over to the GPU to free up cycles on the main cpu.