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Greater explanation would be useful.

As in:

"I just don't get shot."

Now, does that mean

a) I'm immune to bullets.
b) I am Neo, and to me there are no bullets.
c) No one has ever tried to shoot me, if they had I'd be deader than a parrot in a Monty Python sketch.
d) All of the above.

It's very useful to know if we are safe, or just lucky! ;)

Voted "Best post of the day"

PS. Don't forget ".... I'm not dead yet!", "yes you are", "No I'm not! I feel HAPPY, I feel..." <THUD>
 
thers really only one way to make a secure computer........

.......:D




thats to have it in a room secluded away from everything and everyone with the power cables in the bin
 
Greater explanation would be useful.

As in:

"I just don't get shot."

Now, does that mean

a) I'm immune to bullets.
b) I am Neo, and to me there are no bullets.
c) No one has ever tried to shoot me, if they had I'd be deader than a parrot in a Monty Python sketch.
d) All of the above.

It's very useful to know if we are safe, or just lucky! ;)
Post of the day but I'm not sure you can beat this one.
 
As in:

"I just don't get shot."

Now, does that mean

a) I'm immune to bullets.
b) I am Neo, and to me there are no bullets.
c) No one has ever tried to shoot me, if they had I'd be deader than a parrot in a Monty Python sketch.
d) All of the above.

It's very useful to know if we are safe, or just lucky! ;)

Touche.
Yes but people understand how a gun works. My point is that the intricacies of a computer virus infecting a given OS is based around some complicated matters.

If I say a computer virus doesn't infect a Mac because the kernel is coded to not accept unauthorized access (kinda making that up) vs. I don't get shot because I don't hang out with people with guns, which of the two would your average Joe most likely understand/relate to?

I guess to be more specific "They just don't get viruses, because the OS has got you covered."
 
I don't want to burst any bubbles, but Mac's CAN get viruses, and here's why.

1. They are a computer. They run whatever code they are told to run.
2. They are machines with hardware & software developed by humans.
3. Humans are imperfect.
4. Humans are also deviant.
5. Deviant humans will always find a way...

If that isn't reason enough, apply simpler logic:

1. Macs are based on Unix.
2. Unix has viruses. Click here

Just my opinion.
 
I'd hope that if a dangerous virus ever did hit the Mac platform, Apple would immediately issue a security patch to fill in the hole in the OS. But I don't think viruses will hit Mac OS X. The security of the system is what makes it immune - changing anything major asks for admin password. KeyChain is quite secure and requires authorisation before taking a password from it.
 
I'd hope that if a dangerous virus ever did hit the Mac platform, Apple would immediately issue a security patch to fill in the hole in the OS. But I don't think viruses will hit Mac OS X. The security of the system is what makes it immune - changing anything major asks for admin password. KeyChain is quite secure and requires authorisation before taking a password from it.

yes that is true, i reckon that if a virus did come out (that was effecting a severe security hole in the mac firewall or something) apple would release a software update immediately. im sure that M$ would probably do the same (or maybe not?? :confused:)
 
yes that is true, i reckon that if a virus did come out (that was effecting a severe security hole in the mac firewall or something) apple would release a software update immediately. im sure that M$ would probably do the same (or maybe not?? :confused:)

Microsoft do release updates on security threats, but Windows is just a big wobbly stack of Vista built on XP built on 2000 built on 98..
 
there are a few viruses actually. But you'd have to be pretty stupid to fall for them.

There are about 5 word macro viruses, and a couple of codec viruses - "please download this codec to watch russian teenagers" sort of thing.

Basically you don't need to worry about viruses on a mac, but lets not be smug and complacent about this, as macs get more popular, more advanced viruses will come our way.

I wouldn't recommend installing antivirus software yet though as they really slow your computer down; they scan everything and every file that moves through your system, all the time. They're a real drain on system resources.

But don't think that macs will always be virus free...


I have VirusBarrier X4. There is an option to turn off background scanning.
Even it is on, I don't notice any decrease in performance.
 
I really don't want to delay the ending of this discussion, but a lot of people argue that changing anything major in the OSX system asks for admin password making it impossible to run any "unwanted" code. But a virus/worm/trojan could be implemented in any program of an unofficial source (e.g. file sharing). For instance, if I download Quicktime from a torrent site, I have to enter my password at the time of the installation, so this is not a real barrier for a virus, is it?
 
I really don't want to delay the ending of this discussion, but a lot of people argue that changing anything major in the OSX system asks for admin password making it impossible to run any "unwanted" code. But a virus/worm/trojan could be implemented in any program of an unofficial source (e.g. file sharing). For instance, if I download Quicktime from a torrent site, I have to enter my password at the time of the installation, so this is not a real barrier for a virus, is it?

Stay up to date on current events. If/when a REAL virus appears for Mac OS X, it'll be all over. Don't install zero day warez that you downloaded from illegitimate places (wait a few days :p ) and you should be fine.
 
No, that is user stupidity.

Of course it is stupid not to use official websites. But there is a lot of freeware and widgets especially for Mac users and people are sharing small programs every day. I mean on principle, the admin password is not really a strong argument.
 
I really don't want to delay the ending of this discussion,

Ha! Like you have any control over that. You should now realize why starting any thread having to do with OS X and viruses is synonymous with "The Official Never Ending Argument" thread. That's why my first post was so to the point, but I was foolish to think anyone would give me the last word (especially on the first post).
 
Virus discussion should be "beginning", not "ending", as its a problem of current and immediate future, not past.

stop arguing about apple's reputation, start caring about real users.
 
... stop arguing about apple's reputation, start caring about real users.
It is not about reputations, it is about the facts. The facts are that there are no MacOS X viruses. In the seven years that MacOS X has been an Apple commercial product, there have been no MacOS X viruses.

The thing that you don't seem to get is that viruses don't spontaneously generate. They are written by human beings. At least two events must occur. Design weakness in the OS must be discovered. Virus developers must then find ways to exploit the weaknesses into a virus. For more than seven years, they have been unsuccessful.

There is no evidence that they will be any more successful over the next seven years. Unexploited weaknesses in MacOS X have been discovered and fixed. This means that the unbreached fort that is MacOS X has become even stronger over time. This means that it is less likely that anyone will write a virus for MacOS X in the future than it was in the past.
 
As you mentioned, weaknesses have been discovered and fixed, except they were not discovered by virus developers, so they were never exploited. That doesn't mean it wasn't possible.

While Mac OS X is less susceptible to attacks, it is not immune. Right now, there is no reason to worry because there are no significant attacks in the wild, but that will change if Macs become more popular.
 
This means that the unbreached fort that is MacOS X has become even stronger over time.

As you mentioned, weaknesses have been discovered and fixed, except they were not discovered by virus developers, so they were never exploited. That doesn't mean it wasn't possible.

Both of you have good points to this (though I don't know how you verify the weaknesses not being discovered by virus creators). Ultimately these are both good examples of the "Never ending discussion" about Macs and viruses.
I motion for this thread to be closed.
 
Design weakness in the OS must be discovered. Virus developers must then find ways to exploit the weaknesses into a virus. For more than seven years, they have been unsuccessful

There is no evidence that they will be any more successful over the next seven years. Unexploited weaknesses in MacOS X have been discovered and fixed. This means that the unbreached fort that is MacOS X has become even stronger over time. This means that it is less likely that anyone will write a virus for MacOS X in the future than it was in the past.

you are actually compareing past 7 years and future 7 years? did you not see the doubled market share recently in US? did u not know in past 6 years pretty much nobody care about mac? if thats not blind confidance, i dont know what is then.

weakness has been discovered and fixed? do you know how much more code in leopard than tiger? you patched old weakness, but you wrote more code! are you guaranteeing the perfection of new codes?

i would like to see the crystal ball you have, making so many future predictions.
 
I cannot really see this thread going anywhere good.

Everybody take a step back and breath a bit.

There aren't really any malware in the wild for OS X. There used to be a few for pre OS X Mac OS, most memorable was one distributed via a Mac magazine disk.

The good old macro viruses can still cause some trouble for the MS Office suite, especially the old ones, but that's not going to do any harm to anything but the normal.dot file.

There have been a couple of proof-of-concept trojans, which under certain conditions, and with much aid of the user could do a bit of damage, most prominently (from memory):
- One, a while back which tried to infest as many apps as possible and send itself to all iChat contacts almost succeeded, but a bug in the trojan made it harmless
- Another, more recently, masked itself as a porn-video-codec, that tricked the user to install it.

Since the term virus, in addition to being a specific kind of malware with distinct properties also is being used more loosely as a generic term spanning all kinds of viruses, worms, trojans, etc, all the s*** that anti-virus programs traditionally protect us from (excluding most spyware, adware, tracking cookies, etc.), taking the discussion down to a level of semantics ('it's a trojan, not a virus') just isn't funny anymore...it might be correct, but very little constructive and border-lining off topic when taken to the extreme.

Are OS X safe from virus attacks for all foreseeable future? Nope. Not at all. The first successful OS X virus could be spreading as we speak. Does this make you need to run any anti-virus apps? That's a personal choice. I, personally, don't think so, as I'm pretty sure the existing AV programs for Mac OS X wouldn't detect a revolutionary new virus, anyway**. If you want that extra security, go for it...

** I think "common sense", having current backups, keeping the firewall up, stay away from dodgy websites and not open any downloaded apps/emailed attachments/IM-exchanged files/etc you're not absolutely sure about, will probably protect me better than any AV-program. ;)

My wish for the next virus for os x/anti-virus thread her on MR, and we all know that won't be until that pops up, is this: Calm down and think/read over your posts an extra time. I know it's not easy, this is a controversial topic, but try to take the high road. Both sides.

Thanks! :)



Oh, and if anyone want's to protest the closing of this thread, just report this post and the case will be reviewed...
 
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