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All Devices Enough’s enough

thewhitehart

thewhitehart

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 9, 2005
1,104
607
The town without George Bailey
I’m happy Apple is aggressively fighting these bugs. But honestly, this is a trillion dollar company. It can pay off all mortgages on private property in the state of California. Let’s pity the coders who work for them, but let’s not make excuses for Apple. We’re doing them a favor by providing bug reports. Outside of beta software. That’s the key point there. How much collective productivity has the world lost being unproductive while beta testing their software? We pay good money for Apple devices. What chump wants to work for free?
We all have better things to do, but we like being entertained by you, Apple. Extinguish this dumpster fire.
 
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I skipped 13.0 and went straight to 13.1 on my XS max. On 13.1.1 now. It's been suspiciously great, considering how many bugs I've read about. Same with watchOS 6 on the S5 - I'm having none of the battery life problems others have been talking about.

I count myself lucky in this small regard. I'm not interested in beta testing this stuff.
 
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As a person who works in software quality and testing: there will always be bugs. If you don’t want to experience the rocky start then just skip the first few releases of the OS. Lots of people follow that approach.

And consider this: with concepts like Steam Early Access some people are choosing to pay more to get beta software...
 
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danmart said:
As a person who works in software quality and testing: there will always be bugs. If you don’t want to experience the rocky start then just skip the first few releases of the OS. Lots of people follow that approach.

And consider this: with concepts like Steam Early Access some people are choosing to pay more to get beta software...
Click to expand...

How bout if the industry just not release new products until the bugs are worked out?
Not a good idea?
 
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jay968 said:
How bout if the industry just not release new products until the bugs are worked out?
Not a good idea?
Click to expand...

Or they could delay major IOS updates until they are ready, and sell new hardware even if it means its still on the older major iOS version for a bit. iPad has done this, I don't see why iPhone cant. iPad 1 on 3.2 and iPad Pro 2017's on iOS 10.3 and mini 5 on 12.2.

Forcibly releasing major overhauls every year is an unrealistic timeline to hit year over year ESPECIALLY for the Mac where people don't upgrade as often / laptop physically looks the same for many years. But still, I think the amount of bugs average users experience and perceive, has gotten relatively speaking completely out of control.
 
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I have been using computers ever since the days of the Timex Sinclair and Commodore 32. And cell phones since the days of the bag phones.
I can honestly say that through the decades, due to constant upgrades and chasing after bugs with each one, I would much rather still be using a rock solid, no bug iteration of Windows 3.0 than having to deal with the CONSTANT upgrading of bug fixes month after month after month for EVERYthing!
Every single time an operating system or something or other has gotten to the point where it works acceptably, the industry feels it's time to upgrade to something newer with more and more features that hardly anyone wants, and more and more bugs come along. Then once they DO get to the point of making it work acceptably, well then a brand new version with brand new bugs comes along and we start all over again!
It's really getting old folks.
 
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jay968 said:
I have been using computers ever since the days of the Timex Sinclair and Commodore 32. And cell phones since the days of the bag phones.
I can honestly say that through the decades, due to constant upgrades and chasing after bugs with each one, I would much rather still be using a rock solid, no bug iteration of Windows 3.0 than having to deal with the CONSTANT upgrading of bug fixes month after month after month for EVERYthing!
Every single time an operating system or something or other has gotten to the point where it works acceptably, the industry feels it's time to upgrade to something newer with more and more features that hardly anyone wants, and more and more bugs come along. Then once they DO get to the point of making it work acceptably, well then a brand new version with brand new bugs comes along and we start all over again!
It's really getting old folks.
Click to expand...
The thing about that is that a lot of people want something "shiny and new" pretty much as often as possible.
 
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jay968 said:
I have been using computers ever since the days of the Timex Sinclair and Commodore 32. And cell phones since the days of the bag phones.
I can honestly say that through the decades, due to constant upgrades and chasing after bugs with each one, I would much rather still be using a rock solid, no bug iteration of Windows 3.0 than having to deal with the CONSTANT upgrading of bug fixes month after month after month for EVERYthing!
Every single time an operating system or something or other has gotten to the point where it works acceptably, the industry feels it's time to upgrade to something newer with more and more features that hardly anyone wants, and more and more bugs come along. Then once they DO get to the point of making it work acceptably, well then a brand new version with brand new bugs comes along and we start all over again!
It's really getting old folks.
Click to expand...

My history is the same. I haven't had a phone that sent or received as good a signal since my 3W Motorola bag phone with a 9" antenna. But the Windows I might talk myself into wanting to go back to would be WFWG 3.11. What a thoroughbred that was...

Anyway, allow me please to B&M about iOS 13. How is it possible to release an OS with so many bugs and essentially turn your installed base into the world's largest beta test group?
 
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Honestly it seems that (and this isn't only cell phones or cell operating systems) pretty much any tech product nowadays is full of bugs and many are just not as good products as their predecessors. I think LTE cell phones are a great example. They seem to be devices designed for download speed at the sake of probably being the poorest phones that have ever been manufactured. I've gone through months wondering why reception seems to have gotten so bad in the past couple of years. You would think that the industry would have matured to the point by now that cell reception would be absolutely reliable and stellar pretty much everywhere. But, no..it stinks. But I guess I am in the minority. I think that most people don't buy these phones anymore to talk on the phone but rather to txt and share pictures...which they do admirably.
As far as ios 13 is concerned, that's the point...why should a company continue to pay for QC departments when they have free QC from millions of end users?
 
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jay968 said:
As far as ios 13 is concerned, that's the point...why should a company continue to pay for QC departments when they have free QC from millions of end users?
Click to expand...
User feedback isn’t the same thing as actual quality engineering.
 
danmart said:
As a person who works in software quality and testing: there will always be bugs. If you don’t want to experience the rocky start then just skip the first few releases of the OS. Lots of people follow that approach.

And consider this: with concepts like Steam Early Access some people are choosing to pay more to get beta software...
Click to expand...
Lol so in your opinion it's acceptable for a public release to be buggy in the first few months of its release?
 
TrenttonY said:
Lol so in your opinion it's acceptable for a public release to be buggy in the first few months of its release?
Click to expand...

This is complex software with many pieces interacting with each other being created by imperfect humans. Despite the best efforts of the people working on the software bugs slip through.

I have run into a few bugs but they have been addressed fast and overall this has been smooth enough.

Count your blessings that you’re worried about 1st world problems. 😀
 
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TrenttonY said:
Lol so in your opinion it's acceptable for a public release to be buggy in the first few months of its release?
Click to expand...

More like it's been the way of doing business ever since the internet became widely adopted. Accepting that fact and taking action to mitigate its effect on your personal life isn't the same as championing buggy software.

And sure, maybe you never had to update your car phones, but you also couldn't see the person you're talking to, or a video feed of the Earth from space, or live vlog to millions of people, or check the expected weather at that foreign country you're travelling to. That's to say, the software you got in your car or pocket these days is plenty more complex than it used to be, even if you don't have need of any of those features.

If you don't like cricket, don't buy a bat. It's not the manufacturer's fault that the bat's not great for fixing your Lada.
 
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EnderBeta said:
This is complex software with many pieces interacting with each other being created by imperfect humans. Despite the best efforts of the people working on the software bugs slip through.

I have run into a few bugs but they have been addressed fast and overall this has been smooth enough.

Count your blessings that you’re worried about 1st world problems. 😀
Click to expand...
My point being: Apple has probably the largest beta tester population of any private company, yet in-still the notion is "well its going to be buggy for the first few months of release." Why should it be that way? Why have a beta at all?

Why release updates that aren't fully ready? Just because it's been a year since the last update?
Which include all the features that's we were supposed to have day 1. In the past few years there have been dozens of major feature pushed back to a .1 update.
 
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TrenttonY said:
My point being: Apple has probably the largest beta tester population of any private company, yet in-still the notion is "well its going to be buggy for the first few months of release." Why should it be that way? Why have a beta at all?

Why release updates that aren't fully ready? Just because it's been a year since the last update?
Which include all the features that's we were supposed to have day 1. In the past few years there have been dozens of major feature pushed back to a .1 update.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately there will be plenty of public outcry if new and shiny things don’t come out as regularly as the general public and the media feels they should. It’s one of those situations where there really isn’t an upside either way, as unfortunately many situations in realty end up being.
 
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Maybe if you all stopped settling for less they would stop giving us less. Should have boycotted at The Notch.
 
TrenttonY said:
My point being: Apple has probably the largest beta tester population of any private company, yet in-still the notion is "well its going to be buggy for the first few months of release." Why should it be that way? Why have a beta at all?

Why release updates that aren't fully ready? Just because it's been a year since the last update?
Which include all the features that's we were supposed to have day 1. In the past few years there have been dozens of major feature pushed back to a .1 update.
Click to expand...

The world of hardware is a world of software and has been that way for a long time now. Annual hardware releases require new software and features to go with them, otherwise customers are less willing to buy. Annual hardware releases, then, are driven by competition in the consumer market; if you sell icecream only on Mondays and Thursdays, your competition's going to make a killing on all the other days and you'll lose customers even on those days you're open.

Public beta tests are intended for catching bugs that surface only at scale or with unpredictable combinations of physical and software environment. No company in the world can test at real-world scale internally.
 
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Puonti said:
The world of hardware is a world of software and has been that way for a long time now. Annual hardware releases require new software and features to go with them, otherwise customers are less willing to buy. Annual hardware releases, then, are driven by competition in the consumer market; if you sell icecream only on Mondays and Thursdays, your competition's going to make a killing on all the other days and you'll lose customers even on those days you're open.

Public beta tests are intended for catching bugs that surface only at scale or with unpredictable combinations of physical and software environment. No company in the world can test at real-world scale internally.
Click to expand...
Hmmm wasn't controlling the hardware and software the selling point? That they could manipulate the product anyway they want, including not having 'unpredictable' bugs?
 
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