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what's the point of comparing hackintoshes and real mac pro ? :rolleyes:

spending XXXX dollars to install a hacked version of OSX while OSX runs smoothly and has frequent updates on genuine hardware is really futile
 
Hasn't this always been the case.

Fundamentally mac workstations in general have 'always' been comparably priced with likewise matching hardware; but again by the same token that doesn't make it an inexpensive computer, they have always been on the expensive side because hey 'its an expensive piece of kit to build'.....

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what's the point of comparing hackintoshes and real mac pro ? :rolleyes:

None.
 
Wait...so if the Apple computer is $700 less it's "competitively priced" but if the PC is $700 less it's "far less expensive?" :confused:

This sounds like a Rob Enderle piece.

Actually, to truly be competitive with the HP... you have to add 1k and change to the D700. :cool:

Then it is only roughly 300$ cheaper than the dual GPU version.
 
No. I gave an concise explaination of something you're failing to grasp, providing a link that explains the advantages of PCIe flash just incase it was still too difficult. You've now decided to back track so there's no point in continuing this discussion because you're incapable of reading for comprehension.

There was no backtracking considering you still failed to explain to me how you know Apple is using two raided SATA based SSD's. You can't & won't answer the question because you don't know.

You seem to be putting up a huge smokescreen in an attempt to hide that fact.
 
Those Titans are not officially supported and can be broken with the next .x Mavericks upgrade.
I wasn't suggesting that you use two Titans in an old Mac Pro or Hackintosh setup. Was just referencing the "test" in which they tried to build a PC that was comparable to nMP. I'm assuming they were building a Windows PC, in which case, two Titans would be an awesome setup. IMO, much better than two FirePros in almost every app except FCP-X (which you wouldn't care about if you were using a Windows machine).
 
Here is some comparable build to base new Mac Pro, and that's just building it off Amazon, eBay and Newegg.

i7-4820K $314
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=i7-4820K

X79-DELUXE $404
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-X79-DELU...TF8&qid=1388595915&sr=8-1&keywords=X79-DELUXE

Crucial 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) X2 Unit: $104 Total: $208
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148640

Radeon R9 280x $391
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Radeon-4...=UTF8&qid=1388597078&sr=8-1&keywords=AMD+280X

Samsung 840 EVO250GB RAID0 Unit: $160 Total: $320
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Elect...&qid=1388597227&sr=8-1&keywords=840+EVO+250GB

Fractal DesignDEFINE XL R2 $133
http://www.amazon.com/Fractal-Desig...7&sr=8-1&keywords=fractal+design+define+xl+r2

Noctua NH-D14 $75
http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D14...&qid=1388597929&sr=8-2&keywords=noctua+nh-d14

Seasonic SS-750KM3 $149
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SeaSonic-SS...-/290961979562?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item43beaf78aa


TOTAL: $1953
Leftovers in the bank $1050

HGST Ultrastar 4TB - $313
Samsung 840 EVO 1TB - $585
Eizo CG232W = $1,100
Dell UltraSharp U3014 = $1,200
Logitech T620 + K810 = $100
Logitech MX Performance = $70
3Dconnexion Space Mouse Wireless = $130
AVID Artist MC Color Controller = $1,400
AJA LHe Plus = $995
BMD DeckLink 4K Extreme = $995
Akai MAX49 = $500
.. Or simply buy more RAM and GPU!
 
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No, that isn't comparable at all. What you've built is a gamer rig with ECC ram. The Mac Pro uses all workstation parts, and should be compared against PC workstation parts.

Off the top of my head, an i7 isn't directly comparable to a Xeon, and your solid state drive uses a SATA connection, not one that interfaces directly through PCIe. A PCIe SSD alone costs around $900 entry level. Plus, you're using a consumer GPU Radeon instead of a workstation FirePro, and then only one. That alone will rack up an extra $500 for the W5000 (which I believe is the equivalent of a D300 in the entry level MP).

So when all is said and done, you're looking at a machine that's roughly a little more expensive.
 
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No, that isn't comparable at all. What you've built is a gamer rig with ECC ram. The Mac Pro uses all workstation parts, and should be compared against PC workstation parts.

Off the top of my head, an i7 isn't directly comparable to a Xeon, and your solid state drive uses a SATA connection, not one that interfaces directly through PCIe. A PCIe SSD alone costs around $900 entry level.

That i7 is comparable, but no reason to use it when the E5-1620 V2 used in the Mac Pro is $285 at superbiiz.

As for PCI-E: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820785002
 
That product with 960GB would really be great for either MP or PC

If you have a board with enough PCI-E slots you can RAID them and they boot off UEFI. The read/write scales nicely with the cards so you could get double the performance of the Mac Pro's PCI-E SSD with three.
 
No, I think you'll find he specifically DID say the PCIe Flash in the Mac Pro ARE an Apple innovation and then failed to grasp what PCIe Flash actually is, regardless of manufacturer after several concise explainations from not just me.

He originally posted posted this.



followed by the following explainations from other people which they also refused to acknowledge.



(Which is wrong because the Mac Pro benchmarks are 950Mb/s not 95Mb/s)

I saw what he originally posted.
What he said was the equivalent of saying "the PCIe SSDs that Apple uses." In any case, your comments were pretty uncalled for.
 
This is the first model of a new type of a Mac Pro. The second model will most likely be more refined.with all the issues resolved and improvement in benchmarks We've seen this happen in with many New Apple products
 
In case anyone missed it, it's actually explicit in the OP/article.



B

aye it was mentioned explicitly ... I thought about editing my post to reflect that, but thought ... nah, people will see it ... and someone did :)
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
Here is some comparable build to base new Mac Pro, and that's just building it off Amazon, eBay and Newegg.

i7-4820K $314
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=i7-4820K

X79-DELUXE $404
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-X79-DELU...TF8&qid=1388595915&sr=8-1&keywords=X79-DELUXE

Crucial 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) X2 Unit: $104 Total: $208
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148640

Radeon R9 280x $391
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Radeon-4...=UTF8&qid=1388597078&sr=8-1&keywords=AMD+280X

Samsung 840 EVO250GB RAID0 Unit: $160 Total: $320
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Elect...&qid=1388597227&sr=8-1&keywords=840+EVO+250GB

Fractal DesignDEFINE XL R2 $133
http://www.amazon.com/Fractal-Desig...7&sr=8-1&keywords=fractal+design+define+xl+r2

Noctua NH-D14 $75
http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D14...&qid=1388597929&sr=8-2&keywords=noctua+nh-d14

Seasonic SS-750KM3 $149
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SeaSonic-SS...-/290961979562?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item43beaf78aa


TOTAL: $1953
Leftovers in the bank $1050

HGST Ultrastar 4TB - $313
Samsung 840 EVO 1TB - $585
Eizo CG232W = $1,100
Dell UltraSharp U3014 = $1,200
Logitech T620 + K810 = $100
Logitech MX Performance = $70
3Dconnexion Space Mouse Wireless = $130
AVID Artist MC Color Controller = $1,400
AJA LHe Plus = $995
BMD DeckLink 4K Extreme = $995
Akai MAX49 = $500
.. Or simply buy more RAM and GPU!



Talk about missing the mark completely. This is a workstation for professionals not some kind of gaming machine for kids to be playing on at home... You are comparing apples to oranges when you are starting to mix consumer grade hardware with workstation / server grade ones. It's like telling Amazon to start running their servers 24 / 7 on non-server hardware, or telling them to start using Belkin routers instead of Cisco Enterprise ones because they are cheaper and might be comparable in a performance only situation.

These are workstations tended for studios and professions, its something that upscale studios like Disney Pixar, WETA Digital and the like use to render their animations on, something that larger television networks are using for editing their content before its being broadcast.


For situations like this its often more expensive to have a few hours of unnecessary downtime due to software and hardware issues than its to pay the premium for workstation grade hardware. That's why we have workstation grade hardware in the first place, they are cherry picked by the manufacture, tested and verified to handle 24 / 7 usage without hiccups and large scale companies are willing to pay the price premium for this.


Starting to compare with consumer grade hardware is just silly, and you also include ECC registered memory even though the CPU you have chosen does not feature a ECC compatible memory controller.. And no company in their right mind would ever do any kind of serious workload on a system running non-ecc memory to begin with. You SSD isn't even running of SLC flash so it's basically useless for anything write heavy related workloads as those kinds of consumer SSD's are not design for this kind of workflow and would normally fail within the first year depending on how big the workload would end up being.

Your motherboard does not feature any kind of workstation grade chipset, doesn't come with any Thunderbolt ports and features dreadful Marvell chipset for the additional SATA ports which is as far from workstation grade as you'd get with this kind of thing.

You also behave like the R9 280x is anywhere near the computing and opencl peformance of a D700 which it's not by any stretch of the imagination. It's like saying a GeForce GT 620 is just as capable as a GTX 780 Ti to a gamer. You also include a display which is not featuring good enough calibration for the kind of work pro workstation like the Mac Pro is supposed to be handling.


Good luck next time is all I can say to this rubbish.
 
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No, the value of a computer is by how fast and effortless it lets you do your work. For a specialised workstation which is sued to run one or two specialised applications all of the time, the OS does not really matter, true.

Still, for things I do, OS X is just much more convenient than Windows. And as to 'most advanced OS in the world' - well, it kind of is. But you only realise this when you start programming for it.

Yeah, it is beyond you like windows or you like mac.
The big question is do you like adware and viruses?!!
I've never used virus protection on my macs and my windows friends come to me with their year old pcs to get them working again and they have
the anti virus ware on them!
 
I would love to hear the reasons for your conclusion. Why do you think anything other than a Mac Pro is a better solution? I suppose it depends what your doing but Matlab and R both using GPUs now. The Mac Pro has great thermal characteristics. What's the issue? Just don't like Apple?

I find it odd that someone would make such a bold claim about something they also say they know nothing about.

It's not a terribly bold claim. I think Apple makes some brilliant designs, and I'm very impressed with their engineering.

But if compute is that important to you, I'd imagine getting access to a more modular, scalable supercomputer will probably be more efficient.

The Mac Pro is not designed to be a scalable platform. It is indeed very good at what it is designed for, but my claim is merely that it doesn't seem to be a very good fit if you're running calculations that take days to finish.

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Which Xeon and which i7 did you compare? A desktop quad Haswell i7 beat the s*** out of quad Xeon E5 for less dollars.

Xeon is a huge markup from Intel, simple as that. For multithreading, sure a single hex Xeon would kill an i7 though not by much. But for what it's worth, I'll stick with i7.

So, I don't really know what do you mean by "i7 is no match for a Xeon", seriously? You maybe fed up by the brand? Xeon indeed sounds more cool and techy. Doesn't mean it's a lot better, though.

Guys, just read the damn article. Anand provides a pretty good analysis of the differences LATER in the article.

If you need serious multi-thread, or series graphics capability, IB-E is the way to go, despite the fact that it is a generation design. The key is the 40 PCIe lanes.

Also, "kill an i7, though not by much" just sounds like an oxymoron.

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Brace yourself, blather about cache size, memory protection and ECC RAM is coming to try and make a Quad Xeon CPU that benches lower than a Quad i7 still be the better option when all people care about is how much CPU power they're getting over their current system :D

Cache size can indeed be important is certain situations, as can ECC RAM.

The bigger deal you're missing is simply the increased number of PCIe lanes coming off the CPU.

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what's the point of comparing hackintoshes and real mac pro ? :rolleyes:

spending XXXX dollars to install a hacked version of OSX while OSX runs smoothly and has frequent updates on genuine hardware is really futile

I wouldn't call it futile, but you're right, it doesn't really make sense to compare the two.
 
some things that may be overlooked

The Mac Pro is more than I need but some of the comparisons may
have missed these items?
The Mac pro is pretty quiet, so you could use it in a control room for recording?
Quite portable compared to the machines in the comparison.
Not 100% sure but I imagine the resale on the mac pro will be better than the hp or the lenvo?
The Mac pro was put together in the US, which obviously will make it more expensive than the competition but also maybe more reliable?
And hey, it is a work of art!:D
 
You also behave like the R9 280x is anywhere near the computing and opencl peformance of a D700 which it's not by any stretch of the imagination. It's like saying a GeForce GT 620 is just as capable as a GTX 780 Ti to a gamer. You also include a display which is not featuring good enough calibration for the kind of work pro workstation like the Mac Pro is supposed to be handling.


Good luck next time is all I can say to this rubbish.

You're on the mark for most of your post, but if I recall, the R9 280x is actually quite similar to the performance of the D700 according to the AnandTech article.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/10

See the first chart. The R9 280x is actually higher specced, except for the amount of onboard memory.

"Depending on thermal conditions the 280X can be as little as 17% faster than the D700 or as much as 30% faster, assuming it's not memory bandwidth limited. In the case of a memory bandwidth limited scenario the gap can shrink to 9%."

Also, why the condescension? Good luck next time is all I can say to this rubbish.
Really?
 
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Which Xeon and which i7 did you compare? A desktop quad Haswell i7 beat the s*** out of quad Xeon E5 for less dollars.

Xeon is a huge markup from Intel, simple as that. For multithreading, sure a single hex Xeon would kill an i7 though not by much. But for what it's worth, I'll stick with i7.

So, I don't really know what do you mean by "i7 is no match for a Xeon", seriously? You maybe fed up by the brand? Xeon indeed sounds more cool and techy. Doesn't mean it's a lot better, though.

Thanks. I'll go into work tomorrow and tell everyone we're overbuying and we'll be switching our servers over to i7's. Cause they are all the same, right? I'm sure our databases and VM environments won't notice the difference. And I'll tell the desktop folks to stop buying workstation class machines where they do because they too are wasting money. (Were not a Mac shop either)

When you get to large workloads, the things Xeon supports, like ECC Memory, large memory, the bus, etc are all tuned for that.

The thing you are forgetting its the Mac Pro is built for large workloads and that is exactly what the Xeon delivers. It's almost always been a server/workstation class machine. It may not be the speed demon at all things but it's like the Diesel truck - won't always win in 0-60 but will move the large loads without drama.
 
Another rubbish article. I read Anandtechs article. DIY system he uses compares a core i7 consumer cpu to a Xeon. No comparison. The Xeon has 40 pcie 3.0 ports and the i7 has 16. The i7 has a 4 core limitation and the Xeon goes up to 12 cores. One is workstation class and the other is not.

So to do a fair comparison the DIY system should be using a way more expensive xeon and the way more expensive motherboard to go with it.
Also more expensive EEC ram.

The article did not do a fair comparison.

Anyone could build a machine that does single thread/cpu performance better than a xeon. But when it comes to multithread/cpu performance the xeon stomps the i7. Because it is designed to work hard indefinitely, and move heavy heavy amounts of data. The i7 is more like a sports car, fast for light loads. The Xeon a Semi. A little bit slower but can move 1000 times more weight daily than that i7, and do it day in and day out. (think rendering video, 3d manipulation).
 
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