Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney Calls Apple's App Store a 'Disservice to Developers'

alexe said:
The argument that the App Store has helped a lot of developers and the argument that Apple's cut is to high are not mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...
But Apple’s cut is not high though?
It’s actually cheaper than most other stores (30%), e.g.: Google’s PlayStore*, Steam, Microsoft Store, Sony’s PS store, Nintendo eStore.
Even stores for physical products e.g. Amazon also takes 30% cut.
If his issue is the cut, I’m confused why he’s taking issue with Apple’s AppStore specifically.

*) PlayStore was 30% for a while, until it was compelled to follow AppStore’s cheaper 15/30% rate
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: tongxinshe, dellaster and strongy
Michael Scrip said:
You raise a good point about PayPal and other payment processors.

Most credit card processors charge 2.9%... plus 30 cents per transaction. <--- People tend to forget about that last part.

So on lower priced apps... that's a big chunk of your revenue going towards fees.

Also... if people are so upset about Apple or Google taking 15% or 30% of your revenue... why haven't people raised up against Youtube for taking 45% of ad sales?

With Apple and Google... you get to keep 70% or 85%

But on Youtube you only get to keep 55%

?
Click to expand...
Because you can have payed sponsorship or product placements and still pay YouTube 0%.
 
bviktor said:
Luckily the app store is for the customers, not for the developers.
Click to expand...

And who do you think is paying the price for that 30% cut Apple takes? The developer or the consumer? Ever thought that developers pass the cost on to you? Ever thought that apps might be cheaper for you if Apple charged less?

It's ALWAYS the consumer who pays in the end.

It always amazes me how naive people are about this topic.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: strongy, PC_tech, robco74 and 4 others
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: PC_tech, Icy1007 and Sophisticatednut
sheepier said:
But Apple’s cut is not high though?
Industry standard is 30% across the board, e.g.: Google’s PlayStore, Steam, Microsoft Store, Sony’s PS store, Nintendo eStore.
Even stores for physical products e.g. Amazon also takes 30% cut.
If his issue is the cut, I’m confused why he’s taking issue with Apple’s AppStore specifically.
Click to expand...

Most of those are newer than the App Store and just copied the precedent Apple created. So you can basically thank Apple for the fees on most digital platforms being so high. And you as a consumer would pay less for all this stuff had Apple not chosen this particular number.

Apple themselves once admitted (I think it was Phil Schiller in an interview) that when they were debating App Store fees, they didn't have any reference points to go by in the digital world, so they just went with a number that felt good to them. There wasn't a whole bunch of calculating going on. It's not that they calculated that they needed that particular fee in order for the App Store to be profitable. They just went with their gut.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PC_tech
alexe said:
And who do you think is paying the price for that 30% cut Apple takes? The developer or the consumer? Ever thought that developers pass the cost on to you? Ever thought that apps might be cheaper for you if Apple charged less?

It always amazes me how naive people are about this topic.
Click to expand...
Even though it costs more to sell via the Epic Store and when we use things like Fast Spring for direct sales, we charge the customer the same price as the Apple AppStore. Customers on the AppStore should be charged less, but then we would have to lower the costs everywhere else and take a big hit or remove titles from other stores.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Argoduck
alexe said:
Most of those are newer than the App Store and copied the precedent Apple created. Apple themselves once admitted (I think it was Phil Schiller in an interview) that when they were debating App Store fees, they didn't have any reference points to go by in the digital world, so they just went with a number that felt good to them. There wasn't a whole bunch of calculating going on. It was only important to them that the fee would definitely not be too low.
Click to expand...
They based their business of Steam that was already very successful. Before Steam and the AppStore you as a developer would be lucky to see 30% and more often our cut was under 20% via publishers like Epic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AgeOfSpiracles, FCX, robco74 and 4 others
People cry unfair when they really just mean “not to their advantage”. What epic really wants is to be able to run their own App Store on Apple devices where they can keep 100% of their app proceeds while also charging developers a cut. Ie: the very thing they are accusing Apple of being guilty of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Argoduck, Zensō, strongy and 6 others
alexe said:
The argument that the App Store has helped a lot of developers and the argument that Apple's cut is to high are not mutually exclusive.

Once a certain fraction of all software globally is sold over your platform and you reach an overwhelming market power (a point that Apple and Google have passed a long time ago), you have to accept the responsibility that comes with it. You're not just responsible to your shareholders. You don't get to keep 30% of every transaction ever made just because you own the platform.

Before the App Store, taking 30% of anything as a digital platform was unthinkable. Imagine if Microsoft had done the same with Windows. Imagine if VISA and MasterCard took 30% of every transaction just because they provide the platform. Everything would be a lot more expensive for consumers only for a handful of corporations to get even richer.

It's just greedy, plain and simple.

I really don't understand why people are defending Apple so fervidly on this topic. It's really not good for anyone that Apple takes such a large cut (same goes for Google, etc. of course). It's not good for developers, it's not good for you as the consumer. It's only good for Apple.

All of you people always complain about Apple's prices for their devices being too high (Studio Display, Airpods Max, etc.), but at the same time you're all going head over heels to defend Apple's taking 30% of every transaction.
Click to expand...
Before the 30% app store, developers were getting a lot less selling in brink and mortar...
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Argoduck, planteater, strongy and 3 others
alexe said:
I really don't understand why people are defending Apple so fervidly on this topic. It's really not good for anyone that Apple takes such a large cut (same goes for Google, etc. of course). It's not good for developers, it's not good for you as the consumer. It's only good for Apple.

All of you people always complain about Apple's prices for their devices being too high (Studio Display, Airpods Max, etc.), but at the same time you're all going head over heels to defend Apple's taking 30% of every transaction.
Click to expand...
Would it be great, if Apple would take a smaller cut? Absolutely.
But calling Appstore "a disservice for developers" is a radical notion, that I just can't agree with.

As an iPhone user of 9+ years, I still rather pay more for IAPs and have a safer, albeit smaller (but still huge) environment then a google store jungle, full of viruses and piracy / hacks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Argoduck, planteater, strongy and 3 others
alexe said:
And who do you think is paying the price for that 30% cut Apple takes? The developer or the consumer? Ever thought that developers pass the cost on to you? Ever thought that apps might be cheaper for you if Apple charged less?

It's ALWAYS the consumer who pays in the end.

It always amazes me how naive people are about this topic.
Click to expand...
If you believe apps would get cheaper, then you must be REALLY naive. 😆
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Argoduck, AgeOfSpiracles, Michael Scrip and 7 others
Relentless Power said:
I gotta hand it to Epic/Tim Sweeney, the amount of energy and resources they’ve invested into battling Apple through the court system, money spent on attorneys and litigation is mind boggling. It’s a losing battle that just won’t turn in their favor, even if they have a valid point about Apple’s App Store.
Click to expand...
I wonder if it cost him as much as the 30% cut from Apple would have, as he has lost a year or two worth of revenue.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: JM and lazyrighteye
Tbh, I get the problem. Innovations like spotify or netflix come from talented devs. Once those get popular, Apple rolls out a competing service. Now Spotify and Netflix have to compete at the same price point, but while Apple gets to keep 100% of the earnings, others have to share their profits with Apple. Tough to survive here. Either earn less or get out.

This is same as Amazon copying an innovative product and selling it cheaper or similar priced on their store.

That said, I absolutely do NOT believe having more, unrestricted app stores will be beneficial for consumers. There is a high level of trust associated with the payment service and overall quality of apps. Some would argue that one can continue to use app store if they want to, I think that's not as simple. Gullible (read: vulnerable) users will suddenly be at risk of being led to use another store and potentially download malware. This possibility doesn't exist now. Android is a very real choice if you want that kind of freedom (rewards and consequences included).

I think Apple should lower its fees for devs to less than 10%. Additionally, fee for apps earning more than $ 1 million should be reduced even further (maybe 5%). I don't understand the backwards pricing Apple has going right now. Devs should be incentivised to sell more, not less.

This may sound unfair to smaller devs, but then it isn't fair to apps like spotify to pay thousands or millions to Apple for the exact same service (hosting their app) that smaller devs get for much less money.

Just my ¢2.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: strongy and Icy1007
alexe said:
The argument that the App Store has helped a lot of developers and the argument that Apple's cut is to high are not mutually exclusive.

Once a certain fraction of all software globally is sold over your platform and you reach an overwhelming market power (a point that Apple and Google have passed a long time ago), you have to accept the responsibility that comes with it. You're not just responsible to your shareholders. You don't get to keep 30% of every transaction ever made just because you own the platform.

Before the App Store, taking 30% of anything as a digital platform was unthinkable. Imagine if Microsoft had done the same with Windows. Imagine if VISA and MasterCard took 30% of every transaction just because they provide the platform. Everything would be a lot more expensive for consumers only for a handful of corporations to get even richer.

It's just greedy, plain and simple.

I really don't understand why people are defending Apple so fervidly on this topic. It's really not good for anyone that Apple takes such a large cut (same goes for Google, etc. of course). It's not good for developers, it's not good for you as the consumer. It's only good for Apple.

All of you people always complain about Apple's prices for their devices being too high (Studio Display, Airpods Max, etc.), but at the same time you're all going head over heels to defend Apple's taking 30% of every transaction.
Click to expand...
It’s just simple math. The 30% is not all profit. It pays for the FREE high quality developer tools that young people wouldn’t normally able to afford if it cost a price. In effect helping educate them about coding and development. This makes coding and development more accessible to young people and to schools. It helps pay for employees to create those developer tools and it pays for the service to run in data centers hardware/software engineers, energy consumption and the enormous data bandwidth required to allow people to download apps. Add all that plus a lot more and you get a superior quality service that customers actually want and demand.

As a developer myself I have no problem with the 30% fee it at all. It makes the entire experience for my customers to securely, safely download my apps fast knowing they have a quality secure ethically moral service that has their backs.

Breaking this up would be going backward and less advanced
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Argoduck, planteater, strongy and 6 others
I started out on Windows 3.11 PCs, I’ve been on computers a long time. There are many flaws with closed systems, but what I like about the App Store (and the console equivalents that, for obvious financial reasons, he hasn’t gone after) is:

1. I can give my payment info to one company that I trust, and from there on payments are frictionless, versus having to give them to every software company I buy apps from.
2. Downloading, installing, updating and uninstalling software is equally frictionless. I don’t have a disparate array of launchers that all forget my credentials regularly, uninstalling doesn’t leave behind files spread across my hard drive, and so on.
3. I can guarantee every app I install is compatible with my hardware, adheres to a common set of principles, and won’t ask me to weaken system security to grant it privileges it doesn’t actually need.

I don’t think I have a lack of choice - iOS has a million options for most apps I need, priced reasonably.

Tim, being older than me, comes from an even wilder west of bulletin boards and mail order shareware. He likes that about the PC ecosystem, I hated it. I should not be forced back to that hell just because he is desperate to drain as many credit cards as he can with stupid Fortnite bucks.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Argoduck, LenticularTapir, strongy and 7 others
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back