Epic Games, Spotify, and Tile Form 'Coalition for App Fairness' to 'Fight Back' Against Apple

[movielad]

Point #2 is incorrect. You can no longer buy Journeyman (time travel TV show that I enjoyed because, time travel) or Farscape The Peacekeeper Wars, but I still have those in my library to download and watch.

Nope. Because I hadn't downloaded a movie which was subsequently removed from the UK iTunes Store by the distributor - I had completely lost access to the movie. It's no longer in my library. No refunds. Nothing. If I only had an Apple TV device (and maybe an iPhone/iPad) and had a very large (> 512Gb) collection and little storage space on my iOS/iPadOS device(s) - how does Apple expect me to back everything up? And even then, if the title was available in 4K and/or had iTunes Extras, how do back those up? You can't.

Is iTunes a streaming service or downloads service? It essentially became a streaming service when Apple launched the Apple TV device. With 32Gb/64Gb of storage, there's definitely no scope to have large film or TV collections!

I have titles which aren't available to purchase that are still in my library (and haven't downloaded), but if the distributor decides to pull it from iTunes, I've lost it for good.

See:

Apple Responds To Disappearing iTunes Movie Purchases Issue

It’s complicated. Very complicated.

www.forbes.com

and

You know all those movies you bought from Apple? Um, well, think different: You didn't

As the licensing terms change, your 'purchase' can vanish

www.theregister.co.uk

But this leads itself to the point that if a developer is kicked out of the App Store for violating the rules, or a developer removes a paid app from the App Store - are you entitled to a refund? If so, why doesn't that apply to iTunes content? Licensing terms, of course, are going to vary between them - but what gets me is that there is a lot of ambiguity to the terms of service in relation to iTunes movies and TV purchases.

 

[cupcakes2000]

ProtonMail is a non-profit. Their sole existence behind the idea of freedom of everything, complete privacy, and are very anti-corporate and monopoly. I am a happy ProtonMail user.

ProtonMail (ProtonTechnologies AG) are very much a ‘for profit’ company.

Link

*edit- can’t get the link to work but it’s a searchable truth.

 

[MacBH928]

ProtonMail (ProtonTechnologies AG) are very much a ‘for profit’ company.

Link

*edit- can’t get the link to work but it’s a searchable truth.

I went back and deleted that from my post. I will still have to double check on that. This seems weird.

They started with a kickstarter campaign and still actually accepts donations(can you do that with for profit?!) they also offer perfectly functioning full free tier of all their services which does not sound a for-profit corporation activity. They actually sell merchandise to support their business and on continuous growth path of adding more VPN servers. Corporations usually try to squeeze every last buck.

 

[cupcakes2000]

I went back and deleted that from my post. I will still have to double check on that. This seems weird.

They started with a kickstarter campaign and still actually accepts donations(can you do that with for profit?!) they also offer perfectly functioning full free tier of all their services which does not sound a for-profit corporation activity. They actually sell merchandise to support their business and on continuous growth path of adding more VPN servers. Corporations usually try to squeeze every last buck.

Well not all corporations are evil, and all businesses reinvest into their own infrastructure.
Making a bit of money along the way whilst trying to fight the good fight isn’t uncommon. You don’t need to be a non profit company to stand for something.

Side note, they offer a feee tier but both the vpn and the email free tier are massively limited in comparison to the paid tier. Not a criticism of them, but thats just the same as any other company. Full free services would be more akin to a not for profit.

I know you don’t like reading (as per another thread) but you should read more about protonmail. I use them, and like their ethics in general, but they do have a dark side and a few of their choices are bizarre contradictions of their stated model

 

[Doomtomb]

Apple just has to let this drag on then reduce fee to say 20% or 15% then these guys look stupid if they keep campaigning after that.

 

[TiggrToo]

That's a quite simplistic view of the situation. Spotify wants Apple to compete fairly with them, which they are currently not since Apple Music does not have to pay 30%. Reading through these comments Apple fans want Apple to crush their competition, which is quite literally the definition of monopolistic behavior.

How much does Google pay itself to use GCP? Amazon to use AWS? Microsoft for Azure?

These are the benefits you have on investing and owning supporting architecture.

 

[MacBH928]

Well not all corporations are evil, and all businesses reinvest into their own infrastructure.
Making a bit of money along the way whilst trying to fight the good fight isn’t uncommon. You don’t need to be a non profit company to stand for something.

Side note, they offer a feee tier but both the vpn and the email free tier are massively limited in comparison to the paid tier. Not a criticism of them, but thats just the same as any other company. Full free services would be more akin to a not for profit.

I know you don’t like reading (as per another thread) but you should read more about protonmail. I use them, and like their ethics in general, but they do have a dark side and a few of their choices are bizarre contradictions of their stated model

For profit companies that contribute to ethics and society are rare. Those who do, do it as an advertisement to increase their profit going back to square one. A non-profit can generate profit, but it doesn't go back to any owners or board members. It goes to be re-invested or used by the organization.

Their free tiers are great free options, and other companies that offer you a free service they are in fact gaining something from you either by tracking(Google, Facebook) or advertising (YouTube, MacRumors). Proton does not advertise no track no sell data or ads. Its out of their free good will. I too am a happy Proton user and glad we have an option finally to move away from Big Brother.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Everyone? Epic charges 12%.

Epic's store isn't the same as iOS/Android.

 

[GizmoDVD]

it's going on now, and Epic is getting slammed hard. They claim iOS Fortnite users don't play anywhere else,

 

[hanske68]

There are things that definitely should be locked down or provided at the OS level and not an app. What if the "Finder" app suddenly breaks? Its getting an error when uninstalling and trying to reinstall too. But at the OS level, its baked right in.

I really don't understand this argument people have. Apple built the OS and can provide defaults and keep some things locked down. Should we allow developers to interact more at a lower level instead of APIs? How will that work with malware of looking at the secure enclave?

We developers should be able to add apps like file managers (Finder) as well. Same applies for several other apps Apple offers. They should bake that in the OS and offer decent API's. On the application level, others should be able to use those API's. Finder is on the application level. Or at least: it should be.

Too many half-baked apps from apple could use a better UI, so developers should be able to create decent applications for the OS. Apple is shielding that now, opposing rules and regulations that make it impossible to create something like the Finder, just because Apple is allowed to use private api's and they darn well make sure you cannot provide a "competing" experience by building something better, just because they do not offer the API's for it. Many API's are crippled, or totally undocumented. For a reason, I assume.

 

[UrbanJoe1]

Most countries? Don’t be ridiculous.

I’m not ridiculous. Do some homework.

 

[I7guy]

The article says 85% of apps in the store are free. There I wonder what would happen if the 15% of app's that generate the money, changed their apps so there was no in app payments, thereby ensuring that 100% of the apps in the store were free. I wonder how long Apple would allow it be that way, no app generating any money for Apple.

So the dev and Apple wouldn't make any money. Sounds like a lose/lose, but more for the dev who is working for free.

Whilst it is accepted that Epic is losing money due to their stance, it has to be noted that Apple is also losing money from the 30% it would usually be taking from Epic due to in app purchases. All Epic has to do is convince the app stores other biggest developers to cease in app purchases and instantly Apple loses more billions a month. Apple maybe able to handle the loss of the billions it gets from Epic but how long could it handle the loss of the billions it gets from the next biggests app store developers. If Epic can convince these other big developers to side with them, Apple would be in serious trouble of losing a lot lot more money. Such a move would force Apple to change it's ways.

Deep pockets Apple can go one for years with it's huge cash reserves, whilst developers get nothing for their hard work. It's like telling your employer that you will work for free.

Apple won't change it's ways, because the way the app store is structured $99 gets you everything (except the knowledge to code an app, that's on you) to find a marketplace for a unique app without worrying about servers, infrastructure, VAT or anything else, all while providing good management tools. Epic for $99 to Apple made hundreds of millions of dollars. (sure they had to foot the bill for development, office space, etc..but that is not on Apple)

Striking against Apple hurts the devs more than Apple, imo.

 

[I7guy]

They kinda have to use Apple resources to reach iPhone users. Right? It’s more about market share and access. Increasingly important since iPhone & apps etc. have disrupted pretty much EVERYTHING. Neither party is all right/wrong but somebody has to push back on Apple since they are content with their position and have the power & money to remain unmoved. It takes a form of class action to get a company like Apple to budge one micrometer. Apple is wealthier than most counties.

A class action lawsuit doesn't guarantee anything, especially if there is no legal standing for the suit.