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I would be in support of those who know what they're doing being able to turn them off. I'd also like parental controls to only allow stuff from the App Store (or maybe selected App Stores if multiple exist).
ONLY if they put up the exact same scare screen for their own app store, and parental controls should only be able to block ALL app installs, not selectively allow Apple to get an advantage.

The number of people who don't realize what they're doing when it comes to iPhones and software in general is a lot higher than people who post on MacRumors realize; my mother in a law (who is a very smart person who worked in the White House before she had kids) originally thought Apple made all the apps on the App Store. She just doesn't care about this stuff and has no reason to pay attention.

Informing people who aren't technical that "Hey, that safety and security you're used to on iPhone may not apply on this app" is perfectly reasonable. There's a strong argument to be made that mobile apps are such a big thing BECAUSE Apple got everyone used to apps being safe and secure again after the virus hell that was late 1990s/early 2000s.
I don't think it's reasonable to let Apple claim that their own app store is inherently safer when it's already distributed malware. Thus the scare screen should apply to all or nothing.

Sideloading would accomplish that. Personally, I prefer going through the App Store (to the point that I have a couple of subscriptions that I pay more money for through the App Store than I would if I went through the company's website).

I REALLY don't like the term "sideloading" at all, it implies that normal software installation (a much better term) is somehow shady. And I prefer normal software installation to using an app store, I'd MUCH rather not involve a third party in the process.
 
ONLY if they put up the exact same scare screen for their own app store, and parental controls should only be able to block ALL app installs, not selectively allow Apple to get an advantage.
I don't think the scare screen is warranted for their App Store. Apple has the ability to make it right if an App Store app scams you; they don't have that ability if you download and install an app from ÅppStore dot RU. But I suspect we're never going to agree about this so I'll drop it after this point.

I agree with having the ability for blocking all app installs (which I am pretty sure already is possible, but my kid isn't old enough to have an iDevice so I don't know for sure).

I REALLY don't like the term "sideloading" at all, it implies that normal software installation (a much better term) is somehow shady. And I prefer normal software installation to using an app store, I'd MUCH rather not involve a third party in the process.
As someone who worked providing tech support to end users from 2002-2006, I'd argue that "normal software instillation" is absolutely more dangerous than the App Store.

And as far as not involving third parties, again I think we're just at "different strokes for different folks" again. I prefer not to give developers who I don't trust any information about me unless I have to. As far as I am concerned, developers are not to be trusted, even if they provide a service I like. I don't know their safety stance, security practices, etc. The less information they have about me, the better.

But I think we're just not going to agree. Which is fine. Enjoy the win! Hopefully you're right and I'm wrong that this will be worse for users in the long run :).
 
According to Ben Thompson, it may not yet be over for Apple.
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From what I can see, Fortnite is still not coming back to iOS anytime soon, and Apple still has a chance to overturn said ruling. Before anyone here starts popping champagne prematurely.
The problem is the contempt aspect, this is partially punitive. They might get the 'permanent' part removed but that doesn't mean that they are going to get any payment "for their IP" any time soon.

Furthermore, you and others like to claim that devs are using Apple's IP without paying for it, but why should they pay for something Apple already sold to a customer? IMO Evans and others want to give up on personal property rights and make sure only corporations have any property rights. Individuals aren't allowed to buy things anymore, instead we only license them.

This is all beside the point, Apple wants a cut of each transaction and they want to call this an IP license but this fails as an IP payment because it misses soooooo many apps. It misses advertising monetized apps, it misses apps that never do link out. Apple has granted a weird exemption for apps that sell physical goods and services even though they use just as many of the APIs and just as much of Apple's IP to earn a living as any other dev.

Apple is a monopoly in all the ways that matter (if a dev wants to sell to all possible customers they absolutely have no choice but to sell on iOS). This means that they are almost certainly going to charge for their IP in a FRAND-ish way. Which means they won't be able to single out apps that only offer digital services to pay for everything. They will have to target all apps more evenly. The problem with targeting everyone is that suddenly Apple's platform is a lot less appealing.

People like Ben Evens think Apple's success is solely due to its own hard work when it was also the millions of hours of work that third party devs put in to build great Apps that made the slogan "there's an app for that" work so well.

Apple is in a monopoly position so I expect that even if they introduce a nominal fee devs will pay it, but if the fee is unfairly targeting certain app types expect them to have to go to court again. I also doubt given their behaviour that any devs will be eager to help Apple build their next platform.
 
I agree. I really think what Apple should do is:
  • App Store: if you want to be on the App Store, you follow Apple's rules, or sign some sort of deal with Apple.
  • Sideloading/Alternate stores: Allow sideloading/alternate stores, developers can do what they want. Apple can perform security/API checks, but otherwise have at it. Apple should be allowed to throw up "You're installing an app from an unknown source and we can't vouch for its safety or security"
To be clear I am convinced this will be worse for most users, and will lead to malware and scams. I personally think it's ridiculous Apple is being forced to do so, but the horse is out of the barn and we're not going back to the "one App Store to rule them all" AND have Apple be properly compensated. So Apple should get in front of it. I suspect the benefit of being in the App Store will result in most everyone staying there.
with no core fees or other BS fees that are forced to pay.

  • Sideloading/Alternate stores need to be non apple hosted.
    And like mac OS allow apps not signed by apple as well signed by apple but not in the apple app store.
 
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Furthermore, you and others like to claim that devs are using Apple's IP without paying for it, but why should they pay for something Apple already sold to a customer? IMO Evans and others want to give up on personal property rights and make sure only corporations have any property rights. Individuals aren't allowed to buy things anymore, instead we only license them.
I go back to the Nintendo Switch. I understand many of you will attempt to distinguish between iOS being a "core computing platform" and the Switch being "an optional game console with little impact on the workings of society", but they both work in the same way.

It was Nintendo who pioneered the idea of charging 30%, not Apple. I paid for my Switch, and can only purchase games via their online store, and I am going to out out on a limb and assume that there's really no way of circumventing Nintendo's 30% cut on all apps sold. I haven't really tried, because honestly, from a consumer's POV, I don't really care about a 30% or 15% cut that I am never going to see (it's the developer paying this to Apple / Nintendo / Sony / Steam, not me).

Bad actors like Spotify, Epic, Facebook, Match...they are not the good guys in this story.
This is all beside the point, Apple wants a cut of each transaction and they want to call this an IP license but this fails as an IP payment because it misses soooooo many apps. It misses advertising monetized apps, it misses apps that never do link out. Apple has granted a weird exemption for apps that sell physical goods and services even though they use just as many of the APIs and just as much of Apple's IP to earn a living as any other dev.
I wonder if, in some alternate reality, Apple decided to go with the core technology fee instead of a flat 30% fee. Perhaps that might be better for paid / subscription apps, but it would absolutely decimate free apps.

Apple's logic here makes sense from a certain perspective. First, this lowers the barriers to entry (Apple makes money only when developers make money), meaning more developers are incentivised to release apps for the App Store.

Second, there really is no way Apple can ascertain how much ad revenue apps bring in. Like it or not, iTunes does serve a very practical purpose in streamline the entire payment process, as well as working out how much money to pay to developers.

Third, I can see why Apple makes the distinction between physical and digital goods (and I know many people here would disagree with me). Physical goods (like booking an Uber or ordering food online) have high costs involved, while digital goods are often characterised by high fixed costs and low / zero marginal costs. So taxing the latter makes more financial sense than the former. It's more sustainable at least. Something like IAPs in Fortnite cost the developer nothing, and the assets have already been designed. You are literally just paying to flick a switch from "off" to "on".

Frankly speaking, it's an open secret that the bulk of revenue from the iOS App Store comes from freemium games, and I really hold little sympathy for Apple taxing the likes of Fortnite, Diablo Immortal or Clash of Clans, given the predatory nature of these games. Perhaps Apple could make an exception here. Continue to tax games while making an exception for everything else. The money brought in for the latter is probably a rounding error to Apple anyways.
Apple is a monopoly in all the ways that matter (if a dev wants to sell to all possible customers they absolutely have no choice but to sell on iOS). This means that they are almost certainly going to charge for their IP in a FRAND-ish way. Which means they won't be able to single out apps that only offer digital services to pay for everything. They will have to target all apps more evenly. The problem with targeting everyone is that suddenly Apple's platform is a lot less appealing.
And it is not illegal to be a monopoly. It's debatable that Apple doesn't deserve 30% for what the App Store offers (this appears to be an industry standard). What's harder to defend is that Apple doesn't deserve anything for the role the App Store has played in growing the overall pie for developers, as well as incentivising consumers to trust the download process and buy more apps than they otherwise would have. Or that Apple should be expected to subsidise the cost of operating the App Store via hardware profits.

I have no answer to this, but I agree with Ben Thompson's take that you can't just unilaterally take away Apple's property rights and declare that it's worthless. Let's see how the appeal goes. Either way, this matter is far from over, and we are no closer to seeing Fortnite being allowed back in the App Store (though maybe I just jinxed things by saying this). 😛
 
In app links are annoying. I’m even less enticed to buy something if I have to leave the app, so technically this is losing everybody money if the average consumer feels like me. Dumb idea for epic, just admit Fortnite isn’t that hot and let go
 
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