Ergonomics between 14 "and 16" Macbooks

[Pokolasko]

For people who have had the opportunity to try both 14 and 16 or who have been using Macbook 16 for a long time. How do you find ergonomics when writing or working with the trackpad?

I only have a Macbook 16 "for two days, but I can't get used to it being taller. I have the right writing technique without leaning my elbows.

I try to figure out if it's just a matter of habit or it will always bother me.

 

[JPack]

A notebook offers poor ergonomics no matter what. This is because you need to tilt your head to look down. The 16-inch offers better ergo because the display is taller and you don’t need to tilt your head down as much.

 

[davedirect]

I also agree that notebooks have terrible ergonomics. They’re incredibly convenient and it’s amazing using an all in one set up, but having your neck cranked downwards will catch up to you eventually. I recently realized that I’ve been reading, playing instruments, cooking, using my phone, using my computer, and what do all of those things typically have in common? Looking down for a large chunk of time. The issue isn’t just one of those things. It’s doing all of those things year and after year, decade after decade, and eventually it will catch up to you. Our necks are not meant to hold up to that much strain looking down that often, for that long. Eventually we develop incorrect muscle patterns and damage in our joints because of it, and it is extremely not fun to get to that point.

The most ergonomic solution would be to raise the laptop so that you aren’t tilting your head down. I plug mine into an external monitor. Then get an external keyboard and mouse so that your back, shoulders, elbows, wrists, and hands are as neutral as possible. Bring the peripherals to you instead of going to the peripherals, as much as possible.

You’ll thank yourself years down the road when you don’t develop severe neck and joint issues.

 

[cababah]

Bring the peripherals to you instead of going to the peripherals, as much as possible.

This (assuming main use case is on the desk)

 

[smirking]

A notebook offers poor ergonomics no matter what. This is because you need to tilt your head to look down. The 16-inch offers better ergo because the display is taller and you don’t need to tilt your head down as much.

Yeah this. I high recommend getting a lap desk to help offset the awkwardness of a laptop on your lap. It'll still leave something to be desired, but bringing the laptop a few inches off your lap and with a slight angle upward really makes what would otherwise be a terrible setup bearable.

 

[jabbr]

you can't beat the ergonomics of an external keyboard + mouse + monitor at eye height, allowing neutral posture. This kinda of thing really adds up over time.

 

[chrismu]

Has any one here used a bigger Macbook without a desk setup for a long time and can share their experience in terms of how bad the ergonomics are long term? I really want to get a "desk setup" with a 16 inch, that I can take anywhere, but only if it is bearable to work on it for a prolonged period of time...

 

[smirking]

Has any one here used a bigger Macbook without a desk setup for a long time and can share their experience in terms of how bad the ergonomics are long term? I really want to get a "desk setup" with a 16 inch, that I can take anywhere, but only if it is bearable to work on it for a prolonged period of time...

It depends on how tall you are. If you're quite tall, it's more challenging because you'll be looking down from a much higher distance. I'm 5'9" so with the 16" MBP and a lap desk, my eyes are just shy of being in line with the top of the display. That's what you should be aiming for. You should want your eyes to be about on an even level with the very top of the monitor.

The lap desk is key though. You only have so much control over how you're able to position the display to be maximally comfortable for your neck, but you can at least put the keyboard in a more comfortable position for typing so you're not double straining your neck through poor shoulder position and poor head position.

 

[chrismu]

Thanks for sharing your experience! I think that wouldn't really work for me, I'm 6'4", and when I want to be able to comfortably type on it, I will definitely have to look down.

 

[Nikhil72]

Have both at home and one odd thing is that I find typing on the 14" keyboard easier than when I'm on the 16".

 

[Fatus_Asticus]

I like my m1 16 but I wouldn't want to use it on a desk all the time. If I did I'd probably elevate it and use an external mouse and keyboard. Since I mostly use it on my lap while lounging its just about perfect for me. I don't find using it on the Desk or table for long periods comfortable though. That goes for any laptop, I'd get an iMac for desk use.

 

[MajorFubar]

Makes me wonder why the market died for computers styled like the Amiga, C64, Spectrum, Atari ST and countless others from 'back in the day', which combined all the electronics into box containing the keyboard, but allowed the end user to choose their own monitor. This allowed better ergonomics than a laptop without eating all your desk space like a PC-style desktop computer.

The options today are either
1...laptop
2...iMac-style device with a built in monitor into which you plug a keyboard, mouse / trackpad
3...Box of electronics (Mac Mini, Mac Pro, every desktop PC) in to which you plug a monitor, keyboard, mouse / trackpad

Maybe I'm in a minority, but if the Mac Mini had always been available as a device with a built-in keyboard like computers of old, likely that's what I would have bought in 2011 instead of my Mac Mini.

 

[smirking]

Maybe I'm in a minority, but if the Mac Mini had always been available as a device with a built-in keyboard like computers of old, likely that's what I would have bought in 2011 instead of my Mac Mini.

Interesting that you'd bring this up because that form factor has been making a comeback recently.

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Personally I don't see the point of this form factor aside from convenience or nostalgia. It'd be the worst of both worlds if you needed a performance computer.

Admittedly, nostalgia alone would be enough to make me consider it as I actually have a working Atari ST right behind me as I type this. Truth be told, I'm tempted to buy that Raspberry PI 400 even though I have no use for it.

I have to say that having grown up with this form factor, I DO like it. I just don't think the tradeoffs that it'd entail would be worth it for our current day, but processors are getting so efficient that most people don't need high performance to do what they need to do. If TVs and displays start getting better at handling external video wirelessly, we very well could see this make a comeback beyond the novelty and low budget market.

 

[amt2002]

I have both 14 & 16 and find typing on the 14 more comfortable. Both on lap and on desk. Not sure why but believe it’s something to do with reaching a bit more over the vast 16” base to reach keyboard.

 

[Usernotmaker]

For people who have had the opportunity to try both 14 and 16 or who have been using Macbook 16 for a long time. How do you find ergonomics when writing or working with the trackpad?

I only have a Macbook 16 "for two days, but I can't get used to it being taller. I have the right writing technique without leaning my elbows.

I try to figure out if it's just a matter of habit or it will always bother me.

Share your concern.

Would go along with some other posters and recommend a monitor if you work long enough in one place.

If you hadn't already bought a 16", a smaller laptop might have made sense as it could be placed with its screen open underneath the monitor (think that might be tricky with the 16"?).

You'd also have the possibility to use a keyboard (with or without a number pad) plus either a mouse or a trackpad. For my space limited installation I have the laptop to the right of my keyboard so that I can use its trackpad.

 

[Pokolasko]

Share your concern.

Would go along with some other posters and recommend a monitor if you work long enough in one place.

If you hadn't already bought a 16", a smaller laptop might have made sense as it could be placed with its screen open underneath the monitor (think that might be tricky with the 16"?).

You'd also have the possibility to use a keyboard (with or without a number pad) plus either a mouse or a trackpad. For my space limited installation I have the laptop to the right of my keyboard so that I can use its trackpad.

When writing, I have to raise my hands too high to reach a neutral position because the MacBook is too tall. When using the trackpad, I feel pain in different parts of my hand, I currently have pinky finger pain. I have no idea why. I don't know if I just need to adapt to the trackpad but it's frustrating because I really want to get used to this new MacBook 16.

 

[Pokolasko]

I have both 14 & 16 and find typing on the 14 more comfortable. Both on lap and on desk. Not sure why but believe it’s something to do with reaching a bit more over the vast 16” base to reach keyboard.

Did that convince you to keep 14 or not decided yet?

 

[amt2002]

Did that convince you to keep 14 or not decided yet?

In terms of overall comfort using it, yes, absolutely. I find the 16" too big and heavy to be comfortable to use, esp on lap. And I came from a 2018 15", which I loved.

Looking forward to getting the 16" boxed up and returned to Apple.

 

[Pokolasko]

In terms of overall comfort using it, yes, absolutely. I find the 16" too big and heavy to be comfortable to use, esp on lap. And I came from a 2018 15", which I loved.

Looking forward to getting the 16" boxed up and returned to Apple.

I thought it was trivial, but I'm also starting to tie it. So I don't mind the weight, but the comfort of use starts to bother me. I don't understand because I have been using macbook 15 ”2013 for 7 years without any problems.

The last time I used a MacBook 16 ”was 3 hours ago and I still feel something like pain in my pinky finger. Does anyone feel pain when using the trackpad?

 

[MajorFubar]

When writing, I have to raise my hands too high to reach a neutral position because the MacBook is too tall.

How did you manage before they invented wafer-thin laptops? What you need to do is lower the height of the supporting surface, or raise your seat.

 

[Usernotmaker]

When writing, I have to raise my hands too high to reach a neutral position because the MacBook is too tall. When using the trackpad, I feel pain in different parts of my hand, I currently have pinky finger pain. I have no idea why. I don't know if I just need to adapt to the trackpad but it's frustrating because I really want to get used to this new MacBook 16.

Perhaps there are two or even three different issues here?

1. height of the machine

When open the new 14" is noticeably higher than the old 13" (approx. 13mm versus 10mm). The extra height is all too evident when moving my right hand from the sloping external keyboard (an old Apple chiclet model with number pad) to the computer's trackpad.
I don't see a height difference between the 14" and the 16" when looking at Apple's website. So will the 14" feel any different to the 16" if the height is the same?

2. placement of the machine

In my space limited installation the 14" sits much closer to the edge of my desk (only 10mm in) so that it can fit under the monitor. This makes it feel even higher and is making me think about using a sloping trackpad with the laptop in clamshell mode. I don't know what size desk or table you use when working but could placement also be a factor?
I haven't travelled since switching to the new machine on Sunday evening so don't know yet how it will feel in other circumstances.

3. use of the trackpad

Are you using the trackpad more than usual at the moment?
Presumably your trackpad settings are the same on the old and the new machines?
Do you feel the same pain if you use a mouse instead of a trackpad?

Lots of questions but hopefully of some help. You're certainly making me look again at my case!

 

[Pokolasko]

Perhaps there are two or even three different issues here?

1. height of the machine

When open the new 14" is noticeably higher than the old 13" (approx. 13mm versus 10mm). The extra height is all too evident when moving my right hand from the sloping external keyboard (an old Apple chiclet model with number pad) to the computer's trackpad.
I don't see a height difference between the 14" and the 16" when looking at Apple's website. So will the 14" feel any different to the 16" if the height is the same?

2. placement of the machine

In my space limited installation the 14" sits much closer to the edge of my desk (only 10mm in) so that it can fit under the monitor. This makes it feel even higher and is making me think about using a sloping trackpad with the laptop in clamshell mode. I don't know what size desk or table you use when working but could placement also be a factor?
I haven't travelled since switching to the new machine on Sunday evening so don't know yet how it will feel in other circumstances.

3. use of the trackpad

Are you using the trackpad more than usual at the moment?
Presumably your trackpad settings are the same on the old and the new machines?
Do you feel the same pain if you use a mouse instead of a trackpad?

Lots of questions but hopefully of some help. You're certainly making me look again at my case!

Hi. thank you for the exact answer. Tomorrow I will answer longer after finishing one video editing on which I tried it out overall. How did they feel with 14?

 

[erkanasu]

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...or-hands.2324275/?post=30648347#post-30648347 check out my thread. personally, I can't use 14" due to wrist pain, it creates pressure on the bottom of my hands.

 

[Usernotmaker]

Hi. thank you for the exact answer. Tomorrow I will answer longer after finishing one video editing on which I tried it out overall. How did they feel with 14?

Since my post on Tuesday I've changed my setup a bit by moving my desk forward a little, moving my monitor as far back as possible (without it falling off the desk!) and sitting my laptop in front of the monitor (menubar aligned with the monitor's bezel) instead of underneath it.
This slightly improves things but doesn't really deal with the extra height issue.
The real solution would be to use a separate, sloping trackpad but I don't want to give up my second screen...
Otherwise a bigger desk but I don't have the space.

 

[smirking]

When using the trackpad, I feel pain in different parts of my hand, I currently have pinky finger pain.

Is it a aching, soreness, or sharp pain? Or is it a weird numb pain?

If it's the latter your setup might be way out of wack and you need to review some ergonomics videos.