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Without non-EU tech companies they would have no tech.
…and that’s why the EU should
- lower the reliance on these foreign tech companies
- limit their power to extract money from European companies and Europeans
- prevent them from leveraging their power anticompetitively and
- ensure that European companies depending on said tech companies platforms can compete fairly.
 
…and that’s why the EU should
- lower the reliance on these foreign tech companies
- limit their power to extract money from European companies and Europeans
- prevent them from leveraging their power anticompetitively and
- ensure that European companies depending on said tech companies platforms can compete fairly.

If I were an entrepreneur in the EU, why would I bother trying to nurture a third smartphone or desktop computing platform or even their own social media platform knowing that I would just end up being subject to the DMA as a “reward” for being too successful?

Therein lies the irony, no? EU regulations do not foster the sort of innovation which would allow viable homegrown alternatives to emerge. They have no way of uplifting their own tech industries. They can only drag everyone else down to their level by way of fines and legislation.

The DMA is just not good legislation. I pray that in 2025, more people will start to come round to this realisation.
 
i've said it before, and i'll say it again. I don't remember the EU being this proactive back when european companies nokia and ericsson owned the majority of the market
Get what you're driving for but maybe it's your memory?
 
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The whole Ireland case where the country of Ireland did not want to collect a fine from Apple but were forced to by the EU was also ridiculous.

The point is, Ireland chose to join an Economical Union and behave by a set of (strict, I can admit it) rules set by this Union's establishing treaties.

They could avoid collecting these fines by leaving such an Union
 
That's not a valid conclusion. Of course it's about corporate behavior. Time and time again, it's demonstrated that conservative politicians hate regulations and will slow or stop these kinds of proceedings whenever they can. That has nothing to do with the actual behavior of the corporations.
Who elects these politicians?
 
The EU? More like “the peE-Ugh.” 🤮

Worthless socialists obsessed with terrible healthcare, lame unions, and unwanted USB-C ports. Only America can lead, like in 2017-2021—Trump made life a dream before the election was stolen. The woke mind-virus explains everything.

Europe will implode thanks to side-loading apps, the DMA, and its lack of tech giants. The EU has no corporations, exports, or buying power—just poverty and wokeness. Why U.S. tech companies even humor their regulations is baffling. Apple made the iPhone, not the EU. Apple should set the rules, not the other way around.

With Trump (aka epic gamer Musk’s sock puppet) in office, big tech will thrive, trillions will trickle down, and every American will be rich. Get ready for a big 24/7-365 x 4 USA party EVERY DAY. Woo-hoo!

 
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The point is, Ireland chose to join an Economical Union and behave by a set of (strict, I can admit it) rules set by this Union's establishing treaties.

Interestingly, the decision, as I understand it, was based on treaty provisions that outlaw state aid to corporations that disrupts or distorts competition, not a tax provision. The EU essentially said the favorable tax treatment was an illegal form of state aid; and thus retroactively made changes to Ireland's tax laws.

No matter how you feel about the Apple case, retroactively changing tax laws is, IMHO, bad policy since no company can be assured that any tax treatment it got won't be changed and the change made retroactive, resulting in a large tax bill in the form of a fine. The company was complying with the laws as written and the tax authorities agreed they were compliant, and then all of a sudden you are not.
 
Interestingly, the decision, as I understand it, was based on treaty provisions that outlaw state aid to corporations that disrupts or distorts competition, not a tax provision. The EU essentially said the favorable tax treatment was an illegal form of state aid; and thus retroactively made changes to Ireland's tax laws.

No matter how you feel about the Apple case, retroactively changing tax laws is, IMHO, bad policy since no company can be assured that any tax treatment it got won't be changed and the change made retroactive, resulting in a large tax bill in the form of a fine. The company was complying with the laws as written and the tax authorities agreed they were compliant, and then all of a sudden you are not.
In addition to your point, which is right on the money, the decision was ludicrous on its face - a non-resident company owes taxes to a country on sales made outside of that country? Crazy.
 
Trump is going to put the EU back in it's box and it is Europeans who will be better for it. Bravo!
Trump is going to tweet and play golf just like his 1st term in office. Meanwhile, the GOP will do its standard thing: tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, deregulation for corporations, elimination or privatization of government services, reduction or elimination of personal rights.
 
I hear what you’re saying here, and sure, she had an agenda, but, she was a commissioner, one of many so the question is, how can a single commissioner become that powerful? She must have had support from her peers and the folks she reports into, or is there something else?
When you're after money and/or power, and it looks like you've got a shot at bringing it in, support tends to happen.

Selective enforcement is not a core principle of democracies.
True, but it's a core reality. In the U.S., we have 'sanctuary cities.' This sort of defiance of law can be found to varying degrees on both the Left and the Right. People may talk about 'democracy' (as long as they think their side is favored) and the 'rule of law' (law they like), but actions speak louder than words and all too often, they actions say what they really value is getting their way.

If it isn’t political at all, why the heck are they waiting for “political direction”? Who cares who is in office or not, let alone who is in office in another country to do your job properly?
It shouldn’t matter, it should be continued to be executed as designed, blind and dutiful. Justice is blind as they want to say…
But your boss is not.

The implications of that statement alone amount to politics in a microcosm.

They didn‘t have an important computing platform and didn’t impose a 30% tax on transactions on it.
So the EU is opposed to high tax rates?

I know there's more to it. The irony was just too much.

- Letting duopolies emerge in important supply or platform markets (such as the one for mobile operating systems and application stores AND
- allowing duopolists to impose their charges and business terms on tens of thousands of businesses that depend on them AND ALSO
- letting them leverage their monopoly and platform power anticompetitively to gain advantages in other, related markets (e.g. media streaming)
is notletting everyone compete.
This is a fascinating topic also under consideration in the U.S. as the Dept. of Justice butts heads with Google, controversies erupt over allowing proposed corporate mergers, people rail against Amazon and 'big box stores' (e.g.: Walmart's the poster child) and their effects on small businesses, etc... The supply chain economies of scale and marketing efficiencies, vast selection, rapid service nearly anywhere in the U.S., convenience (even online product reviews and ratings) vs. various other concerns, including 'more competition.'

Are the people served better by a smaller number of companies with immense resources to drive innovation (e.g.: Microsoft, Apple, Alphabet/Google, Meta, Intel/AMD) and a limited number of heavily supported platforms (e.g.: iOS and Android, Mac/Windows/Linux)?

Or would they by government interference in the market creating a Balkanized patchwork of more numerous brands/companies/standards?

I think sometimes the market and user interest favors consolidation. There have long been multiple web browsers, but a handful hold the big majority of the world market, and web designers don't need the hassle of having to support 15 different browsers. There've been many word processors over time, but it's easy to just go with MS Word. Most people pick Windows or Mac for personal and business computer use - Linux is out there. Software companies produce for Windows, MacOS, iOS and/or Android - who wants the OS market to fragment further?

In software, we have a good model. Look at the Apple Ap. Store. There are a huge number of 'no name' vendors, and some make some money. But who is on anywhere near an even footing with Microsoft, Adobe, Apple, Google, various major anti-virus programs, etc...? It's not a duopoly situation, but a modest number of vendors dominate the major genres.

Finally, in terms of major platforms like operating systems, what are the European countries producing today that has any kind of comparable footing with U.S. companies? Honest question - I don't know.
 
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…and that’s why the EU should
- lower the reliance on these foreign tech companies
- limit their power to extract money from European companies and Europeans
- prevent them from leveraging their power anticompetitively and
- ensure that European companies depending on said tech companies platforms can compete fairly.
What is VERY telling in that list is that there’s nothing there that says “Drive the creation of world class tech hardware and software of such high quality that EU citizens and companies would find those EU based solutions more compelling than the non-EU solutions.” Even in this imaginary view, the idea that the EU could actually compete doesn’t even factor into it. :)
 
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I just want to say: please bring iPhone screen mirroring to our European Macs!
The DMA says that if Apple brings that feature, then the feature would have to be able to work with non-Apple phones. So, as long as Apple never offers the feature in the EU, then they don’t have to worry about the headache of trying to be compatible with the myriad different Android options out there.
 
If I were an entrepreneur in the EU, why would I bother trying to nurture a third smartphone or desktop computing platform or even their own social media platform knowing that I would just end up being subject to the DMA as a “reward” for being too successful?

Therein lies the irony, no? EU regulations do not foster the sort of innovation which would allow viable homegrown alternatives to emerge. They have no way of uplifting their own tech industries. They can only drag everyone else down to their level by way of fines and legislation.

The DMA is just not good legislation. I pray that in 2025, more people will start to come round to this realisation.
Yeah, after “And that’s why the EU should” I expected “Invest in the region” or “Update regulations to allow tech companies to flourish”. What I read instead was “And that’s why the EU should remove the profit motive for non-EU companies to do business in the region.” :) Inertia keeps the current state moving forward for a time and their “wins” are short term at best. With every new bit of tech that comes out, those features will be geoblocked from the EU because it’s literally not possible to come to market with something really new and innovative while also being completely compatible with all the crap out there that doesn’t even try to compete.
 
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Or that most devs pay 15%, not 30%; and 15% will be hard for any competitor to match; especially given Apple's App Store's user base.
Steam takes a 30% cut from the revenue generated by game sales on its platform.

Sony's PlayStation Store charges a 30% platform fee on digital sales, similar to other major platforms.

Microsoft's Xbox Store charges a 30% commission on digital game sales and in-app purchases, aligning with industry standards.

Nintendo charges developers a 30% fee for hosting their games on the Nintendo eShop. This fee supports maintaining Nintendo's infrastructure and curating its game library, which includes first-party and third-party titles.

 
The EU? More like “the peE-Ugh.” 🤮

Worthless socialists obsessed with terrible healthcare, lame unions, and unwanted USB-C ports. Only America can lead, like in 2017-2021—Trump made life a dream before the election was stolen. The woke mind-virus explains everything.

Europe will implode thanks to side-loading apps, the DMA, and its lack of tech giants. The EU has no corporations, exports, or buying power—just poverty and wokeness. Why U.S. tech companies even humor their regulations is baffling. Apple made the iPhone, not the EU. Apple should set the rules, not the other way around.

With Trump (aka epic gamer Musk’s sock puppet) in office, big tech will thrive, trillions will trickle down, and every American will be rich. Get ready for a big 24/7-365 x 4 USA party EVERY DAY. Woo-hoo!

Where did you dream up that nonsensical tirade?
The EU are not socialist. Like most western governments it's a mix of capitalism and socialism.
Lame unions, until you need them.
Unwanted USB-C, not unwanted here.
Trump is another way of saying imbecile.
Woke mind virus explains only people that don't have a scooby.
EU imploding - we'll have to wait and see.
Lack if tech giants, depends what you mean by tech giant.
EU has not corporations? Now you're really beginning to do yourself a dis-service.
No exports/buying power? I can't even be bothered with this.
Poverty and wokeness. WTF????
US is there as they want money, they do NOT have to.
So what if Apple made the phone. You could come to my house in your own car and your own equipment. When you get there I might decide that you must wear only a diaper and speak Swahili whilst using your thumb nail as a screwdriver. If you don't like my rules, you can leave or we come to an agreement. THAT is how things work.
As for your last point. The wheel is older than the wall..............
 
The DMA says that if Apple brings that feature, then the feature would have to be able to work with non-Apple phones. So, as long as Apple never offers the feature in the EU, then they don’t have to worry about the headache of trying to be compatible with the myriad different Android options out there.

I'm not so sure since that would be a Mac feature, and the DMA does not have a blanket provisio that everything must be available to non-Apple devices.

Steam takes a 30% cut from the revenue generated by game sales on its platform.

(other examples snipped)

Yes, I was referring to Apple's 30/15% tiers, which is more generous than most stores.
 
Could be scaled back?

Looks like it is a certainty that EU will offer Greenland to the US as an apology gift for launching an investigation against US companies in the first place.
 
I'm not so sure since that would be a Mac feature, and the DMA does not have a blanket provisio that everything must be available to non-Apple devices.
While I don't know for sure, I actually think the reason this isn't available in the EU is the other way around: if Apple allows iPhones to be controlled by Macs they'd have to give access to the same APIs to allow Windows/ChromeOS/Linux/whoever to write an app to control iPhones as well, which is probably a no-go from a security/privacy perspective. I know I don't like the idea that there could be a public API that allows you to completely access literally everything on your iPhone and use it as if you were holding it; I am sure Apple likes the idea of that even less than I do.
 
In the U.S., we have 'sanctuary cities.' This sort of defiance of law can be found to varying degrees on both the Left and the Right. People may talk about 'democracy' (as long as they think their side is favored) and the 'rule of law' (law they like), but actions speak louder than words and all too often, they actions say what they really value is getting their way.

Yes, it is a question of rule of law, not democracy. That was my point. In general though, selective enforcement is a sign of lack of accountability to the people. Authoritarian regimes tend to use politically motivated selective enforcement against those they see as threats and in favor of those they see as supporters and they can get away with it because the enforcement agencies see a greater threat in crossing the strong man than they do in crossing the citizenry.

Probably not worth arguing this too much further as we risk leaving the core topic, but just as a matter of fact I need to correct you on sanctuary cities... You're correct that the sanctuary movement has support on the left and the right (houses of worship have been using their status to protect people from the government based on humanitarian grounds for a very long time). You are incorrect that it is a defiance of law. Boundaries among jurisdictions is an important part of the rule of law. Immigration law is under federal jurisdiction. State and local governments can choose to cooperate and assist federal law enforcement but are not required to. California, for example, is a sanctuary state but immigration enforcement actions continue to happen there under federal jurisdiction-- just without state or local support. Sanctuary cities exist for the same legal reason we don't have a consistent marijuana policy or national speed limits: jurisdictions. When the federal government was trying to enforce a 55mph speed limit nationally by restricting distribution of highway funds, since they don't have enforcement jurisdiction, Montana established a $5 fine that was hardly worth enforcing. Houses of worship are able to give sanctuary because of overlapping laws: immigration policy and the interpretation of the First Amendment that keeps the federal government largely out of religious affairs-- and constitutional laws prevail.

All of this is very different than saying "we have a law, and an offender, but we'll decide whether to prosecute this offender under that law based on political direction we receive." As a practical matter, of course, you can get to the same outcome by politically allocating limited resources to focus on different things and saying "we don't didn't see the violation because our limited financial resources were focused in other areas".

But, again, that's not a characteristic of democracy specifically or even more likely under a democracy. I'm not convinced the current regulatory approach had a lot of popular support anyway. A few vocal people, sure. But how many people would list alternate app stores in their list of top 10 government priorities? A small minority I suspect.
 
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