EU Opens Non-Compliance Investigations into Apple, Meta, and Google

[nuff_said]

20% of worldwide turnover as a penalty? I would say that is a good enough reason to exit that region.

Why didn't Tim Cook just start selling Android phones instead in the EU? The solution is so simple. Then it is Google their problem.

“exit that region” is not an option. Unclear why it’s proposed here often like a viable solution. Imagine the CEO of any company telling staff, vendors, shareholders, and the board I’m pulling out of this region because of X, Y, and Z. The backlash would be terrible.

 

[wilhoitm]

Perhaps Apple should just sell iPhones with nothing installed.
Let the EU users work out what to load and how?

Or a button... load standard iOS/standard Android.

Consumers given the ultimate choice then.
EU cant complain about any preinstalled apps or defaults.

Let's not be naive, they would just come up with something else to come after these companies for like all of the "on" buttons should all be in the same place! It is clear that they out of control and drunk with power!

 

[dbrose]

The main issue as I see it is if you want the openness go to Android. If you like the walled garden you go with Apple. It is choice and the choice is there. I wish the EU would stop turning each company in to each other.

 

[Zest28]

“exit that region” is not an option. Unclear why it’s proposed here often like a viable solution. Imagine the CEO of any company telling staff, vendors, shareholders, and the board I’m pulling out of this region because of X, Y, and Z. The backlash would be terrible.

In the EU, Android dominates with nearly a 70% market share. If Apple starts selling Android phones, it is basically giving what the EU consumer wants while not risking a penalty of 20% of your worldwide turnover.

And what you are missing is that other countries such as Australia and possibly now the USA will want the same thing Apple did for the EU.

If Apple looses the USA, they are in big trouble.

 

[wbeasley]

The main issue as I see it is if you want the openness go to Android. If you like the walled garden you go with Apple. It is choice and the choice is there. I wish the EU would stop turning each company in to each other.

they are turning one US company against another US company because they have no viable alternative.
Poor Nokia failing to see the trends and collapsing lost their interest in phones...
perhaps they are still a bit salty over the world choosing alternative OSes?

 

[wbeasley]

Let's not be naive, they would just come up with something else to come after these companies for like all of the "on" buttons should all be in the same place! It is clear that they out of control and drunk with power!

i agree. they wont ever be happy unless there is a EU OS and phone dominating worldwide sales again 😉

 

[Doodah7]

Who says. If that were true then the changes made for Europe would have come to UK. I’m far from being a brexiteer. I would vote for any party that would promise a referendum to rejoin.

The inference in your original message was that as the DMA doesn't affect the UK that was a benefit of Brexit and Apple 'leaving' Europe would not include the UK.

Unfortunately, the UK has made its bed and must lie in it.

What I do find, in equal parts farcical and hilarious, is all the non-EU Apple fanbois on this site who get hysterical about EU rules that have absolutely no effect on them!! I'm not the only one of course, the commenters on the likes of The Verge and Ars Technica also find it highly amusing!

 

[nuff_said]

If a company can get around the laws on day 1, then the new laws were not written well. Better lawyers are needed to write tighter wording on the laws.

The problem isn’t with how the law is written but how the law is interpreted. Regardless of how well you wordsmith the requirement, a well paid lawyer will find a way around it.
It’s clear what the DMA states but corporate lawyers are paid insane sums of money to interpret the law how they see fit and then prove they followed it.

 

[sw1tcher]

I told you guys this would get out of control! All of us are being told what we can and cannot do like characters in the movie "The Matrix".

So you'd rather be told what you can and cannot do with the devices you paid for by the device maker?

All of you guys who thought this was great are going to ultimately hate it! Governments should not be picking winners and losers and telling companies what they can and cannot do! Absolute power! Corrupts absolutely!

Right on!

The U.S. should not have gone after Martin Shkreli. He absolutely should be alowed to raise drug prices by 5,400% if he wants to.

The U.S. should not be picking winners by spending taxpayer money to incentivize chip companies to bring chip manufacturing back to the U.S. and build advanced chip fabs. If China invades Taiwan and takes over Taiwan Semiconductor, preventing companies like Apple and Nvidia from getting their hands on advanced chips, we should blame U.S. chip makers like Intel and Global Foundries for not being competitive enough.

The U.S. tariffs placed on all foreign steel and aluminum (except from Canada and Mexico) is another case of picking winners and losers. Yes, having a strong steel and aluminum industry is vital to the U.S.'s national security, but if U.S. steel and aluminum producers can't compete on pricing with foreign products, it's just too bad. Right?

 

[Lethal-Bacon]

why? if it costs too much to do business and affects profits, then retreat could be a best case scenario. Until EU buyers revolt against the EU lawmakers. Politicians still need votes to maintain their power base...

Because all of these companies make a lot of money from the EU continent and enough for board/shareholders to simply fire every exec that things not complying with DMA in good faith is a good idea.
As much as shareholders and board members love these CEO's like Tim, they love money and profits more, so they would sacrifice him just so the company does not bleed unnecesarry money because of bad or not full compliance with all the laws of any country they operate in.

If this was any other continent, singular country apart from USA, EU, China they would have pulled out but from these 3 they will never pull out.

 

[neuropsychguy]

What? You suggest that they should skip the investigation and move straight to summary judgement? Get real.

I responded to a commenter who said, "yes people, the rules are perfectly clear." I countered and said the rules are not clear. This means there is no skipping of the investigation. If the rules were perfectly clear as the other commenter suggested, any investigation would already be over. The EU would tell the companies how exactly they were breaking the law and tell them to change or face legal consequences.

Apple at that point could decide to fight in court but if the laws are perfectly clear and it’s clear Apple is breaking the laws, Apple would not fight the laws; that is unless by so doing they could get the laws changed by some entity that found the rules against the EU Constitution. That’s not likely so it wouldn't be likely Apple would challenge in court if everything was as perfectly clear as some random commenter seems to think.

 

[Zest28]

So you'd rather be told what you can and cannot do with the devices you paid for by the device maker?


Right on!

The U.S. should not have gone after Martin Shkreli. He absolutely should be alowed to raise drug prices by 5,400% if he wants to.

The U.S. should not be picking winners by spending taxpayer money to incentivize chip companies to bring chip manufacturing back to the U.S. and build advanced chip fabs. If China invades Taiwan and takes over Taiwan Semiconductor, preventing companies like Apple and Nvidia from getting their hands on advanced chips, we should blame U.S. chip makers like Intel and Global Foundries for not being competitive enough.

Actually, they should bring chip production to the USA. We all have seen during the pandemic what happens if we are too dependent on China.

And who says that China might not put a stop to TSMC making technologies for the western world. China already started banning Intel, AMD and Microsoft.

 

[dbrose]

The inference in your original message was that as the DMA doesn't affect the UK that was a benefit of Brexit and Apple 'leaving' Europe would not include the UK.

Unfortunately, the UK has made its bed and must lie in it.

What I do find, in equal parts farcical and hilarious, is all the non-EU Apple fanbois on this site who get hysterical about EU rules that have absolutely no effect on them!! I'm not the only one of course, the commenters on the likes of The Verge and Ars Technica also find it highly amusing!

I think it is more concern that it could get us next. The UK will stamp its own “DMA” on the tech companies and with our government they will want to go a step further just to ars*s. You’d think we would want the choice that DMA is insisting on EU I think it is more of a hindrance and not why people buy iPhones.

 

[MNGR]

What? You suggest that they should skip the investigation and move straight to summary judgement? Get real.

It is a foregone conclusion.
They have already decided.
And the next step is allowing IOS to be uninstalled.

 

[one more]

This news has now reached the main news channels, so it will be interesting to see how Apple responds. IMO, the most straightforward solution would still be bringing iOS and iPadOS on par with macOS, as far as “user’s choice” is concerned. They have one year to get it right, so no major rush.

 

[wbeasley]

The inference in your original message was that as the DMA doesn't affect the UK that was a benefit of Brexit and Apple 'leaving' Europe would not include the UK.

Unfortunately, the UK has made its bed and must lie in it.

What I do find, in equal parts farcical and hilarious, is all the non-EU Apple fanbois on this site who get hysterical about EU rules that have absolutely no effect on them!! I'm not the only one of course, the commenters on the likes of The Verge and Ars Technica also find it highly amusing!

well EU are calculating fines on worldwide sales so that would affect everyone not just EU customers.

and the code changes for iOS are included in the same release for everyone.
it's just a geo switch in action.
so anyone with 17.4 has the modified code sitting there waiting for a bad agent to utilise it in a way Apple didnt think about.

you will of course claim it is an optional switch. it is. but the code is there.

i have yet to see anywhere what happens when people move in and out of the EU.
some references about grace periods. a month or two?
then apps installed outside the official app store are turned off or uninstalled or what?

 

[DaPhox]

This must be a field day for the usual suspects in love with governmental control. Continue cheering this on! In time EU et al will have milked these companies dry. Own nothing.

 

[wbeasley]

Because all of these companies make a lot of money from the EU continent and enough for board/shareholders to simply fire every exec that things not complying with DMA in good faith is a good idea.
As much as shareholders and board members love these CEO's like Tim, they love money and profits more, so they would sacrifice him just so the company does not bleed unnecesarry money because of bad or not full compliance with all the laws of any country they operate in.

If this was any other continent, singular country apart from USA, EU, China they would have pulled out but from these 3 they will never pull out.

given it is a US company, it is doubtful they will ever pull out of US.

China... hmmm, they need manufacturing there so need to keep working there until the find a way to mass produce items with less labour.

EU does nothing but create grief. Eventually it could cause enough grief to make it not worthwhile. It is probably the easiest region. Look at the number of Apple Stores. Most are in the UK. Apple could pull stores in the EU and people have a quick holiday in the UK and pick up a phone or whatever... 😉

 

[VulchR]

Europe is in the end, the smallest market who is in decline as their countries are in recession. Europe is simply not as important as the USA and Asia.

To do it for Asia, it makes sense as it is literally the biggest market in the world.

The EU has a market of ~450 million people, far larger than the US in terms of potential customers.

Still, I find it interesting that only US companies are being investigated like this. I think the EU might want to consider how this might play in the upcoming US elections, which will determine, among other things, US trade policy and US engagement with NATO. I suppose we'll see.

 

[sw1tcher]

Actually, they should bring chip production to the USA. We all have seen during the pandemic what happens if we are too dependent on China.

And who says that China might not put a stop to TSMC making technologies for the western world. China already started banning Intel, AMD and Microsoft.

But the CHIPS and Science Act is the U.S. picking winners and losers. @wilhoitm is against such things. We all should be. Let the free market China decide if U.S. companies get the chips they need or not.



(yes, I'm still being sarcastic in case you didn't catch it the first time)

 

[Lethal-Bacon]

given it is a US company, it is doubtful they will ever pull out of US.

China... hmmm, they need manufacturing there so need to keep working there until the find a way to mass produce items with less labour.

EU does nothing but create grief. Eventually it could cause enough grief to make it not worthwhile. It is probably the easiest region. Look at the number of Apple Stores. Most are in the UK. Apple could pull stores in the EU and people have a quick holiday in the UK and pick up a phone or whatever... 😉

Well then take a look and see if it is possible for them to even pull out... its easy to talk and imagine the scenario, but the moment company is publicly traded and has a board/shareholders to answer to they are simply unable to do such big costly moves.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/382175/quarterly-revenue-of-apple-by-geograhical-region/

 

[robvalentine]

Perhaps Apple should just sell iPhones with nothing installed.
Let the EU users work out what to load and how?

Or a button... load standard iOS/standard Android.

Consumers given the ultimate choice then.
EU cant complain about any preinstalled apps or defaults.

So I can get android on apple hardware? Win win.

 

[Zest28]

But the CHIPS and Science Act is the U.S. picking winners and losers. @wilhoitm is against such things. We all should be. Let the free market China decide if U.S. companies get the chips they need or not.



(yes, I'm still being sarcastic in case you didn't catch it the first time)

China is not a free market. It comes from the Chinese government that Chinese technologies should be used over Intel, AMD and Windows.

The only way to convince TSMC to come to the USA to build their chips is to bribe them with money and it is in our best interest to do so.

edit: never mind, i see you were being sarcastic 😛

 

[wilhoitm]

So you'd rather be told what you can and cannot do with the devices you paid for by the device maker?


Right on!

The U.S. should not have gone after Martin Shkreli. He absolutely should be alowed to raise drug prices by 5,400% if he wants to.

The U.S. should not be picking winners by spending taxpayer money to incentivize chip companies to bring chip manufacturing back to the U.S. and build advanced chip fabs. If China invades Taiwan and takes over Taiwan Semiconductor, preventing companies like Apple and Nvidia from getting their hands on advanced chips, we should blame U.S. chip makers like Intel and Global Foundries for not being competitive enough.

Yes, it is called the free market system! It works every well! Consumers are ultimately already making the decision with their purchasing power. Governments cannot artificially reward and punish companies, that is called communism and it does not work! They are trying to kill the goose that laid the golden egg when other companies would have never laid a golden eggs in the first place! It is woefully misguided creative destruction! Apple will prevail in the end!

 

[truthsteve]

Then maybe Apple should've complied in good faith.

The new rule itself is a waste of engineering resources.