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szw-mapple fan

macrumors 68040
Jul 28, 2012
3,475
4,336
If that were the case they already would have required it. Sideloading would allow users to bypass controls and access programs China may want banned; having 1 source for programs makes it easier to control what is available.
That hardly makes sense since domestic Android OEMs all operate their own stores instead of using a single Android store like the Play store. If China wanted a single source for apps it would have been mandated already on Android. The fact that Apple is compliant doesn’t mean a domestic App Store wouldn‘t be welcome.
 

jlc1978

macrumors 603
Aug 14, 2009
5,469
4,250
That hardly makes sense since domestic Android OEMs all operate their own stores instead of using a single Android store like the Play store. If China wanted a single source for apps it would have been mandated already on Android. The fact that Apple is compliant doesn’t mean a domestic App Store wouldn‘t be welcome.
Good point. One difference may have been Android side loading was in from day 1. Will be interesting to see how this plays out at any rate.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,205
2,532
No one wins here except Apple competitors. Consumers get a possibly more capable but less stable and less secure device. This law is watering down all the things most people appreciate about their iPhones
No, I may be getting exactly what I want: Apple’s design and ease of use - while also having access to third-party apps without Apple‘s nannying.
Hopefully, Apple makes a separate device for the EU
Yes, would be great if they did.

It will just not play out as you think: First, it’s not going to affect security and privacy nearly as much as the doomsayers (and Apple) want us to believe. Second, once Apple make a more free version of the „EU“ iPhone that will allow apps from other sources, a secondary - or grey - market will emerge to i port this into other countries around the world.
If you want to use App Store hosting, authentication, storage, advertising, payment gateway you get charged 15% (30% if you are big time).
…and if you do not want that… Apple is booting you off the platform.
Well, maybe not anymore, soon.
 
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AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,205
2,532
Apple never wanted it to be complicated, they are the best at making things NOT complicated in the tech space.
…as long as they can charge their big, phat commissions and margins, yes.

I mean, your assertion isn’t entirely true: Apple has already made things complicated:
- Apps that do allow purchases for products and services without using Apple’s IAP/payment processing/commission (Amazon, Booking.com, etc.)
- Video streaming apps, that can allow in-app purchases without Apple’s IAP/payment processing/commission, even for digital services
- „Reader apps“ that can provide paid external content, without it being reviewed by Apple or available on their store.
- …except game streaming apps, that for some carefully crafted rule can’t.
- Introducing a new 27% commission rate in the Netherlands, and requiring separate app binaries for dating app that make use of a regulatory order

These complications all serve just one purpose: $$$
This is going to be a mess. Apple will not give the EU exactly what it wants, it's already proving that in the Netherlands
Given their reaction there, yes I wouldn’t be surprised if they get ever more „creative“ and make things more complicated to circumvent the rules and laws they’re subject to.
 

Razorpit

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2021
1,075
2,232
Or THIS. Apple creates standards. If you don't like them, build your own.

Great example is Tesla charging stations.
They were built for Tesla cars to charge. Tesla put the charging port on the back left of the car. Next gen EVs are creating their own standards and then complaining about not being able to charge at the ubiquitous Tesla chargers. If you buy an XYZ EV with the charging port at the front left, call XYZ to complain about the lack of charging convenience / capacity. Don't force Tesla to build a better charger.

It's not Apple's fault you chose to host your app with them.
Apple could charge every developer in the EU $10/month per app.
Who would this hurt, big companies or little companies?
While I agree with the statement, why did Tesla put the port there? For most charging solutions I always thought front left (for US markets) or front right (for European markets) made the most sense since people generally do head in parking, especially at home.

Yet another Apple fan either blissfully unaware, or in complete denial, that macOS has always allowed sideloading, from the very first Apple I computer that started Apple, all the way to the latest M1 machines. Oh what an inconvenient hole, exposing your entire belief system for the trash it is. Yeah yeah, I know, you're going to reply with "but but but Macs and phones are DiFeReNt." Please do spare me the further delusional mind twists and mouth foaming, attempting to justify the impossible.
True but we aren't talking about IIe's.

Which government in the world has responded to Ukraine correctly?
I could, but I won't.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,205
2,532
Europe will never have a technology empire. It is impossible to build moonshot class products in the EU
Smartphones and App Stores aren‘t moonshot class products anymore.
They‘ve become basic communication devices that everyone has and uses.
Like telephones, decades ago.
China will likely want side loading so domestic companies can set up alternative app stores which are much easier to control.
No need to.
China controls Apple on that already.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,349
2,132
Scandinavia
I find the fine on Global Revenue to be ridiculous and unprecedented. As for iOS the EU should just make it illegal. Apple can close it’s shops, research centers, server farms and put those someplace else. But then the EU would take a pretty big economic hit at a very bad time. Seems like they want to have their cake, and eat it all too.
EU would take close to zero% hitt on its economy if apple closed up shop. Apple doesn’t produce anything in EU, they only sell goods that can be replaced by other consumer consumptions.

Global revenue fines aren’t unprecedented. Google have had those hitting them for a decade now. And the point of global revenue percentage based fines is for them to matter and actually do something instead of them just being ignored and calculated as costs of doing business.

Just as some EU nations give speeding ticket fines based on yearly income instead of small meaningless token cost.
 
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960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,698
1,565
Destin, FL
…and if you do not want that… Apple is booting you off the platform.
Well, maybe not anymore, soon.
Booting seems a strange word to use.
Apps currently hosted by Apple follow the 15% rule for most developers. If you choose to move your hosting somewhere else... no 15% fee ( or at least whatever the cost is, does not go to Apple ).
You choose, no one is getting "booted".

Heck, start your own App Store and start charging whatever you wish.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,205
2,532
If you choose to move your hosting somewhere else... no 15% fee
Don’t conveniently forget to mention that most normal consumers will then be unable to install and use your elsewhere-hosted native app then (also, no, mobile apps aren‘t or aren’t perceived a suitable replacement for many apps „hosted“ by Apple).
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,698
1,565
Destin, FL
Don’t conveniently forget to mention that most normal consumers will then be unable to install and use your elsewhere-hosted native app then (also, no, mobile apps aren‘t or aren’t perceived a suitable replacement for many apps „hosted“ by Apple).
Step 1: iPhone Safari browser navigate to https://app.starbucks.com
Step 2: Tap Square-O
Step 3: Add to Home Screen
Step 4: Very convenient.

no, mobile apps aren‘t or aren’t perceived a suitable replacement for many apps
A valid opinion that cannot be argued. As a developer, I disagree, but that is what makes the world go round.
 
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sideshowuniqueuser

macrumors 68030
Mar 20, 2016
2,833
2,841
Oh, I'm quite aware of that since I was using computers when you were still just a wet dream.

It actually bolsters my points, that sideloading will change the way governments are capable of restricting access and controlling content since there is not a single gatekeeper. Apple and others will no longer bear any responsibility for such apps; and the user data provisions can absolve them of privacy issues as well. In some ways this can be a win for the big tech companies if they use the rules to their advantage; which I have no doubt they will.

Thank you for making my point.

I also remember the heyday of bit copier piracy, and later when jailbreaking helped enable piracy; I suspect developers will not be happy with some of the potential fallout as well.
What are you, 300 years old or something, oh wise one?

Your "points" are so nonsensical it leaves my head spinning.
 
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AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,205
2,532
Step 1: iPhone Safari browser navigate to https://app.starbucks.com
Great example for when a web app is a very good alternative to a native app.

I honestly wish more companies did that (as properly, mobile-friendly, and instead of having proprietary, non-crossplatform apps. Worst offenders are the downloadable apps that are worse in usability than a web site).

Though not for every use case is a web app a suitable replacement / alternative.
 
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960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,698
1,565
Destin, FL
I honestly wish more companies did that (as properly, mobile-friendly, and instead of having proprietary, non-crossplatform apps. Worst offenders are the downloadable apps that are worse in usability than a web site).
I could not agree more.

Though not for every use case is a web app a suitable replacement / alternative.
Absolutely correct. I would estimate that 90% of the "information" apps within the app store could be redesigned to a single source code / team. Unfortunately for the biggest money maker apps ( games ), only the most casual could be converted. Native Swift is still the best choice for now.

I am currently exploring A-Frame for cross-platform VR applications.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,349
2,132
Scandinavia
For the people who aren't very familiair with the EU lawmaking machine, early 2023 actually means 2024 by the earliest and then 2025 before you're gonna see effects because of cooldown periods.
It’s because of the cooldown period it will be implemented in early 2023. It will be voted on in a few months and 8 months cooldown period it will become law.
That's what has been forgotten; and I suspect Apple will simply change its pricing model so that things which now are bundled will be a seperaet charge, hurting small developers. I could see them say, sure, use 3rd party payments, we'll just charge for d/l's instead if you offer subscriptions and fall into certain app categories. There is no reason for Apple to underwrite EPIC's hosting for free. Alternatively, if sideloading is allowed Apple could simply say we do not host apps that can also be sideloaded.
Charging for downloads will very likely be infinitely cheaper than paying 15% of revenue to apple. Microsoft takes 0% for non gaming applications on the Microsoft store. Pay per use is a more fare model.

EU developers pay their taxes and VAT separately not including in their cut.

And if apple want to hurt small developers and chase them away it’s their business choice, might incentivize good competition with alternatives stores such as Epic store and Steam to take apple market share
I wonder how the privacy vs. access to data will play out. If Apple has to handover data and is not allowed to let users choose not to share it, clearly they are not liable for any privacy violations.
GDPR Willa till apply. EU wants to implement apples AppStore data policy for the whole web. But more strict.
I suspect smal developers may get hurt as well depending on how Apple reacts.
That’s upp to apple to do bad or good business decisions.
Not just Apple… the bigger more pricey App suites like Adobe will be hit hard as you can get a cracked version of the suite on the once implemented new iOS version of the “Pirate Bay.”
DRM exist or online requirements or iOS device registration etc. it’s very easy to pirate iOS apps already.
Only wonder if this law bleeds over to iPadOS or is the EU really concerned about devs or do they just want to unlock message encryption on iPhones?
It’s for everyone, it’s not targeting apple, google, Microsoft etc. gate keeper is an objective criteria based on revenue, user base and business users in EU.

This is a double-edged sword here. On the one hand it will be nice to use one app to talk to anyone on any platform. On the other hand iMessage security will only be as strong as the weakest app you are communicating with. Plus not all apps support the same features so the user experience will have to fallback to the lowest common denominator of shared experiences.

This whole thing just feels like government overreach.
The security will be just as strong as the protocol the services use. iMessage with signal will just be as strong as the weakest link.

iMessage with WhatsApp is just as secure as WhatsApp to WhatsApp would be
If companies like Microsoft, Sony, Facebook, Google, etc.. are thinking these sweeping regulations won’t set a legal precedent that impacts their ways of doing business too: They better start Thinking Different™ real soon.

The EU (& US) may intend to single out Apple, but the dominos are going to fall on many others too.
Apple isn’t singled out. All these companies are covered. There is no legal president. It’s because of DMA coveriand DSA.

The DSA will mandate social media platforms such as Facebookc YouTube and twitter etc disclose to regulators how their algorithms work, obligations would create transparency on how decisions to remove content are taken and on the way advertisers target users. This means no more vague decisions and broken rules they don’t tell you about.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,183
23,887
Gotta be in it to win it
EU will take a big economic hit not Apple? That's funny. EU's overall GDP is over 17 trillion/ year. Apple's business in Europe is just a drop in a bucket by comparison. Not to mention apple sells goods that are easily replaceable by goods from other companies. EU is not Botswana, Apple has no power to threaten EU in any way.
Easily replaceable, sure, as a Ferrari is easily replaceable by a civic.
 

M3gatron

Suspended
Sep 2, 2019
799
605
Spain
Easily replaceable, sure, as a Ferrari is easily replaceable by a civic.
Good joke.
Ferrari makes luxury, unnecessary cars that are irrelevant for the vast majority of the auto market.
Next you are going to tell me how irreplaceable Prada bags are.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,183
23,887
Gotta be in it to win it
Good joke.
Ferrari makes luxury, unnecessary cars that are irrelevant for the vast majority of the auto market.
Next you are going to tell me how irreplaceable Prada bags are.
So your opinion is now the arbiter of what the world needs as far as necessary and unnecessary commodities? Because using that logic most goods are not necessary.
 

M3gatron

Suspended
Sep 2, 2019
799
605
Spain
So your opinion is now the arbiter of what the world needs as far as necessary and unnecessary commodities? Because using that logic most goods are not necessary.
No, it's just that your counterexample is a total irrelevant joke that doesn't contradict what I wrote at all.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,183
23,887
Gotta be in it to win it
No, it's just that your counterexample is a total irrelevant joke that doesn't contradict what I wrote at all.
It shows that the iPhone is replaceable on a function by function basis as a civic and Ferrari both move people from point a to b. It’s the form and function that isn’t replaceable.
 

M3gatron

Suspended
Sep 2, 2019
799
605
Spain
It shows that the iPhone is replaceable on a function by function basis as a civic and Ferrari both move people from point a to b. It’s the form and function that isn’t replaceable.
Good for you that you figured out that a smartphone is replaceable by another smartphone.
 
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