European Union Requesting Examinations of Apple's Warranty Advertising Practices

[Tanax]

Another idiotic lawsuit. So Apple has to spend their money to have special advertising for the morons who live in Europe and don't know that the law there makes all manufacturers give you a 2 year warranty. And who gets the money from the lawsuit... probably the government. These stupid laws and stupid lawsuits really make me sick. A company should be free to have whatever warranty period they wish, and if the consumer wants more then they can buy more coverage or not by the product. Let market demand and competition dictate what is needed.

Edit: I'm not implying that all Europeans are morons... I'm meaning the morons who don't know the law about 2 year warranties, which should be common knowledge if all companies are required to provide it in Europe. After reading what I wrote, just wanted to be clear.

I hardly think it will be very difficult nor very pricey for Apple to add a little more text on their European websites.

Apple is an American company trying to sell to the European market. _They_ are the ones who has to abide by the European rules, not the other way around. And out of interest, why do you care about what they have to do to be able to sell to us? This doesn't apply to you in the US so I really don't see the point in bitching about that Apple is being forced to do certain things for the European market. These rules may be new to you or different than the ones you have in the US, but they are all perfectly natural to us and we expect all companies to abide by them.

Personally I think it's great that they might be forced to clear this up. And as I said, what does this matter to you anyway? Not everyone are tech savvy or have a lot of knowledge about warranties on tech things. Especially since one of Apple's target-market segment is the "newbie-techies" -segment.

So, I have an iPhone4 with a broken sleep button, over 1 year but under 2, can I get Apple to fix it for free? I am in the UK and bought the phone direct from Apple.
Also those that say everyone should know of this it is not clear at all, my niece had an iPhone over 1 year old, she took it to the Apple Store but had to pay £120 for a replacement reconditioned phone, so is Apple not replacing under warranty like they should? Also her phone was within her 2 year contract but the phone company did not want to know.

Since more than 6 months have passed, you are the one who have to prove to them that the defect was there from the beginning(e.g. a loose spring or bad adhesive or whatever). If it's less than 6 months, it's they who has to prove that the defect WASN'T there from the beginning(e.g. that you dropped it or whatever).

 

[pedrordep]

I think Apple's behaviour is pretty disgusting. Really shameful and quite grating, in fact. I would have expected that a multinational of Apple's size to be capable of understanding the need to conform to local legislation and practices/expectations.

Right now I feel that Apple is engaging in possibly deceptive practices; hence the Italian judgement. There are different specific laws in Europe, and Apple has to obey every single one of them whether they like it or not. For example, here in Portugal the burden of proof does not change from the vendor to the buyer after six months as is the case with the UK. It stays with the vendor, so we get added protection. And Apple has to deliver it even after 12 months. So there!

I did a few test phone calls to Apple in both Portugal and UK. It is clear that in the UK you are more at Apple's mercy after one year since the protection is weaker. I pushed them in several instances and they did show flexibility (e.g. willing to fix a faulty hard drive after 16 months), but it is clearly a slippery and disenchanting process.

Apple are still behaving like scum when it comes to the European guarantees issue whatever flexibility they may show in specific cases. One must judge Apple as a company with fat profit margins and sitting on a obscene and massive pile of cash. To try to short change people like this is ugly, cheap and very much tarnishes their name.

Apple should act responsibly and ethically and just give consumers a two year warranty in Europe and stop the current nonsense.

Pedro

 

[JAT]

So you are well heeled in all the intricacies of all facets of law at both a state AND federal level? And this also holds true for all 200 and not what million people in the US? So there should be no need for things like "Caution: contents may be hot" on paper coffee cups right?

No, there shouldn't. WTF does "coffee is hot" have to do with laws?

Dumbest lawsuit ever.

 

[Flintstone]

Apple iPhones seem to get problems after the first year. For a phone that cost £500 2 years should be a 'fair and reasonable' life. I know 4 people when the phones have broken. Fandroid friends have a good laugh when their phone that cost 1/4 are still fine. With the cost of the phone and profits being made Apple could at least make a phone last lasts 2 years or if not replace it.

 

[Lark.Landon]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the dismal 90 day phone support. If its over 90 days you have to pay Apple extra for them to even talk to you further about the issue Surely phone support should be available all the time like it is at most other companies.

I believe the feeling you are experiencing is, ' Entitlement. '

 

[Tanax]

No, there shouldn't. WTF does "coffee is hot" have to do with laws?

Dumbest lawsuit ever.

He was referring to the fact that people thought it was "stupid" to have to state something(in this case the warranty of 2-years in EU) on a product when it's the "customer's" job to know these things.

E.g. should we then remove those warnings/notifications about that coffee cups can be hot since it's "stupid" to state it due to the fact that everyone should *know* that coffee is hot?

Or should we remove warning-signs in subway not to stand to close to the railway since people should *know* that standing too close to it might make you fall over the edge?

Completely justified lawsuit.
And quite frankly, if you compare it to the lawsuits by Samsung and Apple, going all over the place, this lawsuit makes A HELL OF A LOT more sense than those!

 

[SimonTheSoundMa]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the dismal 90 day phone support. If its over 90 days you have to pay Apple extra for them to even talk to you further about the issue Surely phone support should be available all the time like it is at most other companies.

Apple never enforce the 90 day or out of Apple Care limit. Called about my 2007 MBP the other day, they were more than happy to help.

----------

E.g. should we then remove those warnings/notifications about that coffee cups can be hot since it's "stupid" to state it due to the fact that everyone should *know* that coffee is hot?

Or should we remove warning-signs in subway not to stand to close to the railway since people should *know* that standing too close to it might make you fall over the edge?

Ever sat in a car in America? Stickers all over the place warning you of dangers. Nanny state indeed.

 

[macass]

No..... just no

Talking about the state of US education. Don't know where this guy was schooled but in Economics he was at the bottom of his class. Anyone that thinks anything is free is an idiot. You pay for the extra warrenty. You pay for security. Freedom is also paid for with the risk you take but I would still like to have the choice. That's what Europe gives up with their statest laws. They will always pay more for theie security. They also loose their choice.

 

[SimonTheSoundMa]

It's not, but the Sale Of Goods Act considerably predates EU directive 1999/44/EC - UK consumers get the protection of both.

It is also a directive. Nothing to do with customer or businesses, but between the EU and country governments within the EU. You don't get protection from 1999/44/EC.

If you were to say that to a retailer you would get laughed at. It shows you have no idea what a directive is.

Basically, 1999/44/EC sets out the minimum protection consumers should have next time a government renews their protection laws.

No such thing as European laws. Laws are still set by each member country.

Thankfully SoGA gives better protection than what 1999/44/EC sets out. The only part that has changed is the retailer has to prove it wasn't the customer that damaged the product within the first 6 months. The fit for purpose, durability and made to satisfactory quality etc lasts for 6 years, not 2 which the EU set out.

In no way is 1999/44/EC or SoGA a form of warranty or guarantee. That's just bad journalism from MRs part. Within the 6 years under SoGA you have to be able to seek redress with the retailer If it fails they should fix it, and it doesn't mean for free in most cases. Your £20 mobile phone could fail 9 months after you bought it and you would have to pay for a repair. If it was a £2,000 laptop you should expect it to last longer as it is a premium product, a court may favour the retailer to get it fixed at no charge to the customer.

Many Apple products in the UK come with 90 day guarantee. Batteries, chargers, cables, earphones.

 

[Rennir]

If you live in the EU you should know about your laws, no? So why the need for companies to advertise it for them?

Just curious, but if you think consumer's should know all the relevant laws about purchasing a smartphone, say, what about differentiating between two smartphones?

Because from what I see, your argument boils down to the vileness of consumer entitlement and having the law force companies to do all their work for them.

 

[MacSociology]

Any electronics-based product that is supposed to last more than two years are covered for two years in the EU. Including everything in your list.

Actually, it's 5 years for these products in Norway as they are supposed to last more than 2 years. (Which will usually be considered as the sweet spot.)

Every time I've had to contact Apple during the last 10 years I've had an argument with Apple support staff regarding this. It usually ends with my having to send an e-mail to the Apple support staff with a copy of the proper law (Forbrukerkjøpsloven) before they give in.

A couple of years ago the MB on a my 3 year old Dell desktop broke and I called the support. The respons after explaining them the problem was simply: "We'll send you a new PC." And I still use it.

 

[SimonTheSoundMa]

A couple of years ago the MB on a my 3 year old Dell desktop broke and I called the support. The respons after explaining them the problem was simply: "We'll send you a new PC." And I still use it.

PC World in the UK were the same with my Sony monitor, they send me a newer model too. It was 3 years old, came with a 1 year guarantee. They sent out a Sony repair technician who came to site so no posting or having to go anywhere.

Apple have been good. 3.5 year old iMac blew up. Took it to the Apple Store, genius powered it one and it started smoking setting off all the fire alarms. But anyway, they replaced the power supply that blew along with the logic board as a precaution all for free.

80% of electronics failures are power supplies. It's usually a worn out capacitor, opto-isolator or over-heated regulator. No more than £1/$1/€1 in parts and 20 minutes of a repair technicians time. As an electronics engineer it always shocks me how many products get thrown away when the repair is usually so simple. Never known an IC to fail unless the faulty power supply sent a spike though it which is near on impossible with half decent switched mode power supplies. Keep on seeing faulty BGA solders lately, this is a manufacturing fault in all cases. NVIDIA and Sony have had bad BGA plague their products. Samsung, LG and Thompson using counterfeit capacitors.

 

[Erwin-Br]

Talking about the state of US education. Don't know where this guy was schooled but in Economics he was at the bottom of his class. Anyone that thinks anything is free is an idiot. You pay for the extra warrenty. You pay for security. Freedom is also paid for with the risk you take but I would still like to have the choice. Thats what Europe gives up with there statest laws. They will always pay more for there security. They also loose there choice.

You always have the choice to pick another brand that DOES trust their own product to last an acceptable lifespan without making the consumer pay extra for it.

Take auto manufacturer KIA for example. They're the fastest growing car company at the moment. Why? Because their cars are competitively priced PLUS they have a warranty period of SEVEN years. No other car brand offers this. Say what you want about KIA, but they have great faith in their product.

Apple's behavior is more or less saying that they trust their product to last for maybe one year, after that it will likely fail. Which, if true, would be unacceptable for a device in their price range.

 

[peterbaby]

Another US / EU war, you guys are funny!!!

While most of you won't even read this, and continue to argue "Evil US corporations " versus "Stupid European socialists "; let me remind the facts here.

The problem is not whether or not EU customers are stupid enough to ignore their own law, forcing a 2y guarantee for all products for free.
The problem is that Apple is accused of misleading advertisement, for PRETENDING that there is absolutely no coverage after 1 year. Look at the Apple care box at this link

The other fact, however, is that the EU law only forces sellers to ensure products for 2y for manufacturing flaws (present at time of purchase), which is practically impossible to proove as a customer.
The Apple Care however, is a "full blown" fault guarantee; so it DOES provide an advantage.

The point being: this is not a story about the EU doing something different than the US. Misleading advertising is an offense in ANY western country, so don't get fooled in thinking this is a guarantee problem: it is an information problem.

 

[pedrordep]

Talking about the state of US education. Don't know where this guy was schooled but in Economics he was at the bottom of his class. Anyone that thinks anything is free is an idiot. You pay for the extra warrenty. You pay for security. Freedom is also paid for with the risk you take but I would still like to have the choice. Thats what Europe gives up with there statest laws. They will always pay more for there security. They also loose there choice.

Talking about education while posting with repeated spelling mistakes in his own native language. How impressive.

Back to topic -> The rules exist in Europe to improve standards and protect consumer. It is up to companies to decide how they tackle the legislation requirements. But the point remains that in the case of Apple with its fat margins, I think it is a disgrace that they are misbehaving this way.

As far as warranty lengths are concerned, some might prefer one year warranty because they feel they have a greater choice. And if it were 0 months warranty - even more choice, I suppose. But for me this is of secondary concern. The rules are what they are in Europe and Apple needs to step in line.

I think it would be cheaper for Apple to give out 2 year warranties then to fight customers and destroy goodwill and brand. Right now (and on the back of several phone calls in the last few days) I have the feeling that Apple is trying to see what it can get away with. If the European customer is more pliable, then it sticks to the 1 year routine. If the customer applies pressure, then it shows flexibility.

While this might be good for shareholders in the short term, it may be eroding value over the long run. We shall see.

Pedro

 

[Appelschil]

this will only benefit consumers in eu, so idk why people are defending apple lol

 

[pedrordep]

this will only benefit consumers in eu, so idk why people are defending apple lol

Good question.

Perhaps a misplaced sense of patriotism and/or blind adulation of Apple.


Pedro

 

[VenusianSky]

Don't underestimate the EU. Just ask Microsoft.

 

[joris538]

Easy for the Americans to reply 'you should've know'. No. Look at the picture included, it says (gray) "warranty of Apple and free telephone support" and (red) "Extra covering with the Apple Protection Plan", while two years is standard by law.
You may call is socialist, you may say it are simple customers, but you must agree that Apple is acting as if you only have one year warranty standard, while law obeys it is a two year minimum.

 

[69650]

It would be nice if Apple just made two-year warranty standard across their products around the world. But I guess the expense wouldn't make shareholders happy.

It would be nice if Apple cared more about their customers than their shareholders for a change.

EU should just fine them a few billion dollars and they would soon change it.

UK law states that products should work for a "reasonable" amount of time anyway regardless of the warranty you get with the product. If your 2 grand MBP dies after 18 months just take Apple to the small claims court and you'll almost certainly win.

 

[macass]

You always have the choice to pick another brand that DOES trust their own product to last an acceptable lifespan without making the consumer pay extra for it.

Take auto manufacturer KIA for example. They're the fastest growing car company at the moment. Why? Because their cars are competitively priced PLUS they have a warranty period of SEVEN years. No other car brand offers this. Say what you want about KIA, but they have great faith in their product.

Apple's behavior is more or less saying that they trust their product to last for maybe one year, after that it will likely fail. Which, if true, would be unacceptable for a device in their price range.

You always have a choice to buy one brand over the other. That is not the point. KIA made crap cars for years. That has changed in recent years. KIA made a marketing decision to give an unusually long warranty to overcome a very bad name. They were not forced to do so. It made good marketing sense. For Apple to be forced to extend their warranty when they did not need to pushes them to raise there prices on everyone. They are in business to make money.I have never had to use the one year warranty apple offers however, I have had 2 iphones replaced that were damaged by water. They did not have to do it. It was a marketing decision. They want my business. Markets work when they are free to work. When the government gets involved companies become protective and less likely to be generous. Everyone in Europe pays more for products because of these statest laws. Companies become very protective and everyone looses.

 

[JAT]

He was referring to the fact that people thought it was "stupid" to have to state something(in this case the warranty of 2-years in EU) on a product when it's the "customer's" job to know these things.

E.g. should we then remove those warnings/notifications about that coffee cups can be hot since it's "stupid" to state it due to the fact that everyone should *know* that coffee is hot?

Or should we remove warning-signs in subway not to stand to close to the railway since people should *know* that standing too close to it might make you fall over the edge?

Completely justified lawsuit.
And quite frankly, if you compare it to the lawsuits by Samsung and Apple, going all over the place, this lawsuit makes A HELL OF A LOT more sense than those!

I was refering to a famous McDonalds coffee lawsuit.

Someday, humans are going to learn that you can't legislate against stupid. Obviously, it will take longer for some.

 

[macs4nw]

The price we pay has the cost of a 12 month warrantee built into it, if they where to include 24 months coverage we would pay more.

Do people actually believe a warranty is free ? All products can come with a standard two year warranty but the price of the product will increase to fund this.

100% correct.

Wish the US had the same consumer rights that the EU provides!

Careful what you wish for!

Europe is such a nanny state.

Yes, somewhat more socialist leaning than the good old US of A.

Instead of the Apple warranty is 1 year, but EU gives you two years, who doesn't Apple just say they give you a 2 year warranty since the EU requires it? Then offer Apple care to add two more years giving the owner 4 years of coverage? Is that too easy?

My guess is that with four years of coverage, they'd be replacing, under warranty, a lot of iPhone, iPad, iPod and laptop batteries.

 

[Toadstall]

Another idiotic lawsuit. So Apple has to spend their money to have special advertising for the morons who live in Europe and don't know that the law there makes all manufacturers give you a 2 year warranty. And who gets the money from the lawsuit... probably the government. These stupid laws and stupid lawsuits really make me sick. A company should be free to have whatever warranty period they wish, and if the consumer wants more then they can buy more coverage or not by the product. Let market demand and competition dictate what is needed.

Edit: I'm not implying that all Europeans are morons... I'm meaning the morons who don't know the law about 2 year warranties, which should be common knowledge if all companies are required to provide it in Europe. After reading what I wrote, just wanted to be clear.

Oh I think its clear ;-)
I normally buy Apple Care and so could care less about this regulation, esp as it relies upon "proving" defective at point of sale. But being irritated that US company has to abide by regulations and law in different regions is odd and suggests more than your words say.

 

[yellowplum]

Americans don't typically understand because they assume warranty is covered by APPLE (MANUFACTURER). It isn't!

Warranty is dealt with under contract law, where you contract of supply occurred, ergo if you purchased your item from a retailer such as PC World (BestBuy for Americans) then your contract is with the retailer and therefore your contract of supply is with them and you must return to them.

Hence forth why it is not clear what Apple stipulate on the site. Most people don't really understand or interest themselves in contract law. The same applies when you purchase a car, most would assume the manufacturers guarantees the vehicle, they don't! it is the person who sold you the vehicle.

Secondly, EU Legislation (or directives that are implemented by individual countries) differ somewhat to local legislation. What the attempt of this directive was to do is to provide a MINIMUM protection for EU consumers across the EU, therefore if you purchase something in France then it is covered in the UK, or Germany etc.

If you wish to find out more or raise a complaint against a retailer you can - http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/index_en.htm for all 27 member states

Some templates exist that you can write to the retailer with. Most UK retailers don't even understand the legislation let alone do anything with it.

Always pay with a credit card in the UK, anything between £100 and £30,000 is covered (you only have to pay something on your card, even if it's a 1p but the item costs £100 you are covered). - Google CCA 1974 templates if you want those and to understand.