I have seven HomePod Minis, an ATV 4K (2021), and a Wemo Stage Scene Controller with the Thread firmware update. That’s about the extent of my Thread devices for now. When I open the Thread Network setting in the Eve app, it just stays stuck on “Checking Network Status”. It’s been like that for a long time. Anyone know if Eve requires you to have at least one Eve device to take advantage of this feature in their app? I already tried uninstalling and reinstalling the Eve app but still the same.
![1642932934096.jpeg]( "1642932934096.jpeg")
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HomeKit Eve App Thread Network
- Thread starter Itinj24
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I have the Wemo Stage Scene Controller with the Thread firmware update. The HomePod Mini and ATV 4K 2021 are supposed to be Thread border routers and should show up in the network as I’ve seen in videos. I planned on getting an Eve weather and a few of the Aquas anyway but curious if there has to be an Eve branded device on the network for this app feature to work. Maybe a way to get you to buy their products, which I have no issue with.
This is what the Eve app did for me before I got the Eve Energy smart plug with thread. Once I got that, thread network information such as function, links and signal levels became available.
Ok so that pretty much confirms my suspicion. Thanks for that ?
I don’t disagree with their decision to do this. The app is free as it is and it’s a good app. I’ll drop some coin on their hardware. I planned on it anyway before the Thread hype.
I suspect because of security they need their own connected thread router device to be able to determine this kind of information about your thread network. Otherwise a number other developers would be creating apps to show various details about your thread network.
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And it would keep one from using the app to "spy" on thread networks that they aren't part of.
I have the Eve Weather and due to the device being out of the Thread range, I had to to purchase the Eve Extend to connect to the Eve Weather. The Weather is connected to the Extend via Bluetooth.
I am curious about the Apple devices being the Thread router, I would assume that only one of these device would be the main Thread router and the others will be in standby, according to the picture it would appear that the HomePod Mini is a singular Thread Router and the Eve Energy would be utilised as a Thread network expander.
I wonder if the forthcoming Matter product(s) will enhance these HomeKit Networks as well as providing Alexa / Google Home cross platform capabilities.
To summarize: it's complicated.
All thread devices take one of two ROLES: Router or End Device. There may be many routers on a thread network. To make matters (no pun intended) more complicated, there are two of TYPES of thread devices: Full and Minimal. Full Thread Devices (FTD) are devices that CAN act as routers. Minimal (MTD) can only be endpoints. Just because a device is capable of being a router does not mean it has that role. Roles are determined by the Thread Leader, which is the Router that is in charge assigning router roles. There is also one or more Boarder Routers, which fit the more traditional understanding of a router: sending traffic between two networks, thread to Internet for example. This is all just for managing the Thread network; HomeKit over Thread and Matter have different rules and roles.
(Fascinating reading over here https://openthread.io/guides/thread-primer/node-roles-and-types)
HomePod mini or ATV 4K G2 can be a Thread Leader, normal Router, Boarder Router, or probably an End Device. They are FTDs, as are Eve Energy and some light bulbs, like Nanoleaf A19. All these can be Routers, subject to your network layout. Eve Weather is a "Sleepy End Device" (it runs on a button-cell battery). It can only be an End Device.
Thread is a self-organizing network technology, as an alternative to WiFi, Bluetooth, or Ethernet. Matter and HomeKit provide standards for controlling devices. HomeKit appears to have only one active Home-Hub, and others are in Standby. If there's a Thread-capable hub, it will probably always be promoted to primary, if there is a Thread network.
Matter devices should be able to be controlled via HomeKit, and would likely be part of the local Thread network. But Matter has been delayed a number of times. And Google seems to have walked back it's support for Matter, in Nest Thermostats, for example.
All thread devices take one of two ROLES: Router or End Device. There may be many routers on a thread network. To make matters (no pun intended) more complicated, there are two of TYPES of thread devices: Full and Minimal. Full Thread Devices (FTD) are devices that CAN act as routers. Minimal (MTD) can only be endpoints. Just because a device is capable of being a router does not mean it has that role. Roles are determined by the Thread Leader, which is the Router that is in charge assigning router roles. There is also one or more Boarder Routers, which fit the more traditional understanding of a router: sending traffic between two networks, thread to Internet for example. This is all just for managing the Thread network; HomeKit over Thread and Matter have different rules and roles.
(Fascinating reading over here https://openthread.io/guides/thread-primer/node-roles-and-types)
HomePod mini or ATV 4K G2 can be a Thread Leader, normal Router, Boarder Router, or probably an End Device. They are FTDs, as are Eve Energy and some light bulbs, like Nanoleaf A19. All these can be Routers, subject to your network layout. Eve Weather is a "Sleepy End Device" (it runs on a button-cell battery). It can only be an End Device.
Thread is a self-organizing network technology, as an alternative to WiFi, Bluetooth, or Ethernet. Matter and HomeKit provide standards for controlling devices. HomeKit appears to have only one active Home-Hub, and others are in Standby. If there's a Thread-capable hub, it will probably always be promoted to primary, if there is a Thread network.
Matter devices should be able to be controlled via HomeKit, and would likely be part of the local Thread network. But Matter has been delayed a number of times. And Google seems to have walked back it's support for Matter, in Nest Thermostats, for example.
I suspect that with Eve Weather only, it will set up in Bluetooth mode. If it's in Thread range of a HPmini it might do thread; might have to check with Eve. I suspect that unless there's an Eve Full Thread Device (i.e. not battery powered), it won't unlock the Thread functions in the app.
Yeah, the last part of your post is what I was concerned with most. I wanted a weather device anyway but I’m willing to expand. Eve doesn’t have many devices that aren’t battery powered. Light switch? Light strip? Water Guard? Power Strip? I could’ve sworn I saw a snap shot somewhere of someone’s Eve app Thread network and it didn’t have a plug in Eve device showing in the network. I could be wrong.
So I went ahead and purchased an Eve Energy just to see my Thread device map. Below is a screen shot. Is this what everyone else is seeing? All the other devices that are in an unknown room are a mix of HomePod Minis and a Thread enabled AppleTV 4K. I assume the room is unknown since the Eve app doesn’t support AirPlay2 devices as controllable like the Home app.
Can anyone decipher what those two digit numbers/letters are in the parentheses and the other ones too? They don’t appear to correspond to serial numbers. And why do some of the devices say “Apple Thread Router” and some say “Router.” Other than the Eve Energy, all others are definitely Apple devices. Appreciate any insight.
![1666410697302.png]( "1666410697302.png")
Can anyone decipher what those two digit numbers/letters are in the parentheses and the other ones too? They don’t appear to correspond to serial numbers. And why do some of the devices say “Apple Thread Router” and some say “Router.” Other than the Eve Energy, all others are definitely Apple devices. Appreciate any insight.
Let me see if I can get most of these points, in no particular order:
The 2-digit codes are likely the last 2 hex digits of the device's Thread MAC address, and of little use if they don't match the known MAC addresses of devices you have. A device's WiFi, BT, and Thread radios each have different MAC addresses. You can try to track them down by unplugging a device and seeing which one vanishes.
Thread Network/Router Identification:
- Apple Thread Router = Currently either an Apple TV 4K or HomePod mini.
- Thread Router = a non-Apple device that has the role of Thread Router.
- Do you have 7 HomePod Minis or mini+ATV4k? Then I can't explain why they don't all say "Apple".
- If you tap each a device in the list, you'll get more info about it, but it probably won't help you figure out much.
- Also, your Eve Weather is missing. It's not currently in the Thread network; i would reset it and re-add close to one of the Apple devices.
Unknown Room:
This does not look correct. All my Home configuration automatically populated into the Eve app. This probably means a disconnect between your Home.app setup and the Thread network, or other configuration problem. What do you see in the Eve app Rooms tab (see attached)? In the Home app, do you have rooms set up? (when you tap the 3-dots at top right do you see the list of Rooms?) Do all your HomePod minis and ATVs appear in the correct rooms? Check all the Apple devices are up-to-date? I just remembered, long ago I added some speakers (non-HomePod) that ended up in "Default Room" in the Home app. So start by making sure devices are assigned to the correct rooms in Home.
Thread, in General:
Thread is surprisingly long range considering the low power of endpoints like battery operated Eve Weather. You shouldn't have to spend time managing it; the Eve Thread Network Maps is useful as curiosity. Thread is self-structuring and self-healing. I find it very reliable and refuse to use any BT devices in my Home-setup. This is a great primer on Thread: https://openthread.io/guides/thread-primer
Let me know if that helps.
The 2-digit codes are likely the last 2 hex digits of the device's Thread MAC address, and of little use if they don't match the known MAC addresses of devices you have. A device's WiFi, BT, and Thread radios each have different MAC addresses. You can try to track them down by unplugging a device and seeing which one vanishes.
Thread Network/Router Identification:
- Apple Thread Router = Currently either an Apple TV 4K or HomePod mini.
- Thread Router = a non-Apple device that has the role of Thread Router.
- Do you have 7 HomePod Minis or mini+ATV4k? Then I can't explain why they don't all say "Apple".
- If you tap each a device in the list, you'll get more info about it, but it probably won't help you figure out much.
- Also, your Eve Weather is missing. It's not currently in the Thread network; i would reset it and re-add close to one of the Apple devices.
Unknown Room:
This does not look correct. All my Home configuration automatically populated into the Eve app. This probably means a disconnect between your Home.app setup and the Thread network, or other configuration problem. What do you see in the Eve app Rooms tab (see attached)? In the Home app, do you have rooms set up? (when you tap the 3-dots at top right do you see the list of Rooms?) Do all your HomePod minis and ATVs appear in the correct rooms? Check all the Apple devices are up-to-date? I just remembered, long ago I added some speakers (non-HomePod) that ended up in "Default Room" in the Home app. So start by making sure devices are assigned to the correct rooms in Home.
Thread, in General:
Thread is surprisingly long range considering the low power of endpoints like battery operated Eve Weather. You shouldn't have to spend time managing it; the Eve Thread Network Maps is useful as curiosity. Thread is self-structuring and self-healing. I find it very reliable and refuse to use any BT devices in my Home-setup. This is a great primer on Thread: https://openthread.io/guides/thread-primer
Let me know if that helps.
Attachments
My Apple stuff doesn’t show up at all. Am I doing something wrong or do they show up as you get more thread devices?
I didn’t do anything special. All I did was buy an Eve Energy for the thread map to show up and it did.
Yeah, they should appear there since you have a Thread device they can talk to. Does your lamp appear in the Home app on iPhone? Can you control it via HomePod mini?
That’s about all I can think of. You might want to look at this site for more info about Thread and HomeKit.
HomeKit Helper - Thread
What is Thread? Thread is a radio networking standard based on IP that was specifically developed for use in a smart home. Thread’s big selling points are speed and reliability. A motion sensor will turn your lights on in a millisecond compared to a second, and your network won’t go down because
www.homekithelper.net
Very much appreciate your time for this reply…
I was just hoping to be able to identify which device is which with that two digit code but I can’t tie it to anything. Eh, pretty sure it’s useless anyway, like you say. Just curious what they were.
All those devices, aside from the Eve Energy at the very top are Apple devices. One ATV 4K and the rest are HomePod Minis. They should all say Apple Thread Router but they don’t so no clue what’s going on there. Yeah, tapping on the device doesn’t show much more info either.
I do not have an Eve Weather. Planned on getting one but don’t have it yet.
Yes, I absolutely created rooms in the Home app which populated in the Eve app. As you can see in my screenshot, the Eve Energy is correctly placed in the “Foyer” but all those other (Apple) devices are not assigned to any rooms. Do you have Apple devices assigned to rooms in your Thread device list? I figured they wouldn’t since the HomePods and AppleTV’s to show up in the Eve app so they aren’t speaking to the Eve app as devices in a room. Yes, all the HomePods and such are assigned to the correct rooms in the Home app and they’re all on the latest OS (16.0).
Thanks again for your insight. It’s not the end of the world. Just curious how my Thread map looked. I was actually expecting it to look like diagram map, not a list of devices.
Ok Gotchya. Thanks. I just replied to your previous post. Was busy all day and just got around to it so disregard the part where I mention this lol. I’m thinking it’s because the HomePods and ATVs don’t show up in Eve as devices but who knows for sure.
The lamp is actually a Wemo Mini smart plug controlling a lamp. It appears in HomeKit and works fine, although I have had issues before but it’s been good since.Yeah, they should appear there since you have a Thread device they can talk to. Does your lamp appear in the Home app on iPhone? Can you control it via HomePod mini?
That’s about all I can think of. You might want to look at this site for more info about Thread and HomeKit.
HomeKit Helper - Thread
What is Thread? Thread is a radio networking standard based on IP that was specifically developed for use in a smart home. Thread’s big selling points are speed and reliability. A motion sensor will turn your lights on in a millisecond compared to a second, and your network won’t go down because
Maybe my problem is I don’t have any Eve devices and I’m using their app to view my thread network.
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Haha. We were typing at the same time! At this point I really don't know enough about how HomeKit+Thread is implemented, but you know, I don't think Apple intends us to muck about under the hood. I could conjecture up some thoughts on why you're other HPM show up as just "Thread Router" but it would be just educated guesses -- namely you don't have any need to connect to other devices using Thread, e.g. more Eve devices. You might try moving the Eve Energy plug around and see if that changes the "Apple Thread Routers."
Two final thoughts:
- If you want to match up the letter codes to HPM's you could unplug them one at a time and see what disappears.
- Look in your Home app > ... > Home Settings > Home Hubs & Bridges. Do ALL your HPM's show up here? My guess is, no.
Best of luck!
That's a good thought, but the Wemo still shows up as a device. Don't know enough about Wemo on boarding, but the display implies that Homekit isn't using Thread to contact the Wemo. Not sure.