Even knockoffs are coming out now.

[Tago]

Mini PCs were around forever and it is certainly not riding the waive of mini's popularity.

One thing is that most folks probably don't need the power of M4 processor. For example: All I need a mini PC to do is be quite, have enough processing power to do 4K streaming, some office editing. Even the $300 mini PC with Intel N200 processor will do the trick. Plus these machine have upgradable storage, RAM, bunch of USB-A port, headphone jack etc. It doesn't matter these machine benchmarked 1/10th of M4, it does what I asked for, then it is money that I saved.

In some sense, these mini PCs are superior products than Mac mini. It is cheaper, more upgradable option, more port, runs Windows or Linux.



I still like classic Beige box better than original iMac.

Windows debris tend to work like 2 component epoxy glue in those low-spec win machines though. Keeping abreast with AI integration in Windows will be no hunky dory. That has been the story of low spec consumer Windows machines as long as I can remember using computers and that is just a tad short of 40 years. The Win 11 cut-off is a strong indication of a never ending story, final edition plus one.

Of course Linux can easily come to the rescue, and even though that would be more likely for these than more typical choices of hardware, that is not a very attractive solution. A bit of punch above the gutter is beneficial in the longer run on Linux too.

There ARE a few minis capable of more which will serve their purpose, but I`m still of the opinion that I`d be better off with a 2nd hand mid-upper tier Thinkpad for these scenarios. I`m using such combination as we speak, but a low spec spare.

Will highly likely order a M4 Mini this week, it is 100 USD off (not common in this market), and my estimate is a cost of about 100 USD for a +/- 18-24 months ownership. That is likely less than loss of value for your 300 USD mini over a similar period.

Of course, if the funds aren`t there they aren`t there and I fully respect that, but the market is pretty open for 2nd hand Minis, they are easy to sell and easy to buy 2nd hand. Would believe that`s a different story with mini windows machines, but I haven`t built one in 2 decades, thus it might be different nowadays. One issue would be that many available are from corporations, which means (in this market) that there is no protection by consumer laws like it would be with a privately owned Mini.

I still stay away from M Minis for Linux, they are hard at work sorting it out, but I believe there is a little stretch before I will serve my purposes. When they do, I might very well have a go at it.

 

[Aoligei]

Windows debris tend to work like 2 component epoxy glue in those low-spec win machines though. Keeping abreast with AI integration in Windows will be no hunky dory. That has been the story of low spec consumer Windows machines as long as I can remember using computers and that is just a tad short of 40 years. The Win 11 cut-off is a strong indication of a never ending story, final edition plus one.

Of course Linux can easily come to the rescue, and even though that would be more likely for these than more typical choices of hardware, that is not a very attractive solution. A bit of punch above the gutter is beneficial in the longer run on Linux too.

Windows works better on old Mac than force newer MacOS into old Mac. Taking example of old MacBook 2012, perfectly functional machine that stuck with MacOS Catalina, you are lucky to find a browser that still decently functional.

Windows 10 works well on 2012 MacBook Pro, at least runs better than Monterey.

There ARE a few minis capable of more which will serve their purpose, but I`m still of the opinion that I`d be better off with a 2nd hand mid-upper tier Thinkpad for these scenarios. I`m using such combination as we speak, but a low spec spare.

Will highly likely order a M4 Mini this week, it is 100 USD off (not common in this market), and my estimate is a cost of about 100 USD for a +/- 18-24 months ownership. That is likely less than loss of value for your 300 USD mini over a similar period.

Your M4 Mac mini probably worth about $400CAD currently, which was sold around $800 dollar in the beginning. Which means 50% of price drop in about 4 years.

The $300 mini PC probably worth less than 100 dollars in the same period of time. The value drop isn’t much of big difference between mini PC and Mac.

Macs aren’t hold their value as they use to. As it gets more and more common, it will hold even less value.

 

[Tago]

Windows works better on old Mac than force newer MacOS into old Mac. Taking example of old MacBook 2012, perfectly functional machine that stuck with MacOS Catalina, you are lucky to find a browser that still decently functional.

Windows 10 works well on 2012 MacBook Pro, at least runs better than Monterey.



Your M4 Mac mini probably worth about $400CAD currently, which was sold around $800 dollar in the beginning. Which means 50% of price drop in about 4 years.

The $300 mini PC probably worth less than 100 dollars in the same period of time. The value drop isn’t much of big difference between mini PC and Mac.

Macs aren’t hold their value as they use to. As it gets more and more common, it will hold even less value.

You are mixing peas and peaches. Disregarding somewhat awkwardness of Macs to the benefit of Thinkpads, I`d rather fix my old MBP for Linux than getting a TP from the same era. A relevant situation as far as I`m concerned - the showstopper being my desire to loose everything not USB C and not my MBP.

My old TP IS from the era you describe and is closer to your propagated minis in terms of spec level. I merely kept it by accident just in case bla bla. And it certainly never did well bestowed with Windows 10. It`s trash. Works pretty well in Linux as long as the steam engine is up and running. Applications loaded to ram that is.

Mac Minis are very predictable in how the 2nd hand values develops and that`s the case for Studios too. One just have to be tactical about it. No one can predict the future, that`s for sure, but it has been quite consistent the years I have kept an eye on it. A new Thinkpad drops a lot more,

To keep it ex vat and simple with currencies, a Mini M4 is about USD 620 without discount, 550 with discount, and it is very fair to assume I get 450 when it approaches 2 years. The discount makes it a steal in terms of ownership costs.

You won`t have that with a low spec winmini, and besides, you won`t have much performance to enjoy during ownership. With the M4 Mini I will, for almost nothing.

 

[Aoligei]

You are mixing peas and peaches. Disregarding somewhat awkwardness of Macs to the benefit of Thinkpads, I`d rather fix my old MBP for Linux than getting a TP from the same era. A relevant situation as far as I`m concerned - the showstopper being my desire to loose everything not USB C and not my MBP.

My old TP IS from the era you describe and is closer to your propagated minis in terms of spec level. I merely kept it by accident just in case bla bla. And it certainly never did well bestowed with Windows 10. It`s trash. Works pretty well in Linux as long as the steam engine is up and running. Applications loaded to ram that is.

No. You just have issue with Windows. I don’t have issue with Windows. I prefer Windows more than MacOS or Linux.

Mac Minis are very predictable in how the 2nd hand values develops and that`s the case for Studios too. One just have to be tactical about it. No one can predict the future, that`s for sure, but it has been quite consistent the years I have kept an eye on it. A new Thinkpad drops a lot more,

To keep it ex vat and simple with currencies, a Mini M4 is about USD 620 without discount, 550 with discount, and it is very fair to assume I get 450 when it approaches 2 years. The discount makes it a steal in terms of ownership costs.

Good luck with that. Your 450 dollars resale value is still $170 dollar drop, which is still a 27% drop in value.

If you use the same computer, M4 or $300 mini PC for 2 year, the cost of ownership is much lower with $300 mini PC.

One thing is sure, you will get much productivities from M4 Mac, whereas $300 Mini PC is for everyday computing tasks

You won`t have that with a low spec winmini, and besides, you won`t have much performance to enjoy during ownership. With the M4 Mini I will, for almost nothing.

Again, if I am in market for a mini PC that cost $300 dollars, I am not buying it for performance. Comparing M4 mini with $300 dollar Mini PC is irrelevant, they are towards different market and different customer. To spend almost $800CAD on a M4 Mac for streaming and office work is waste of money and cheap mini PC do this pretty well.

If I am in market for performance, there are mini PC with Ryzen processor or Intel Core Ultra 9 processor for much cheaper than M4.

 

[mi7chy]

Does Mac Mini have eGPU support?

 

[Tago]

No. You just have issue with Windows. I don’t have issue with Windows. I prefer Windows more than MacOS or Linux.

Good luck with that. Your 450 dollars resale value is still $170 dollar drop, which is still a 27% drop in value.

If you use the same computer, M4 or $300 mini PC for 2 year, the cost of ownership is much lower with $300 mini PC.

One thing is sure, you will get much productivities from M4 Mac, whereas $300 Mini PC is for everyday computing tasks

Again, if I am in market for a mini PC that cost $300 dollars, I am not buying it for performance. Comparing M4 mini with $300 dollar Mini PC is irrelevant, they are towards different market and different customer. To spend almost $800CAD on a M4 Mac for streaming and office work is waste of money and cheap mini PC do this pretty well.

If I am in market for performance, there are mini PC with Ryzen processor or Intel Core Ultra 9 processor for much cheaper than M4.

That was not a Windows rant. I have sorted out a pile of low spec Windows computers, and they always slows down. The reason I know is that I have owned them, and sorted out scores of low spec Windows machines, as "I was the guy" who could do that. Knock yourself out with this category and I wish you as much joy you can get out of them, but advocating them as a great or even good alternative to other users is not great advise at all. It is cruel.

You state you are not buying these for the performance and that`s indeed fine by me, but they don`t sustain the performance over time, that`s why the loss in value is high, and that`s ONE reason for Windows budget users are preoccupied with upgrades. Because the need it to keep their performance level and extend longevity. These machines are made to be used for a short time then recycling. There is a win 11 cutoff for a reason beyond the desire to sell more machines.

All computers turns obsolete, Macs do, and even Linux installations will notice that with the longevity they have success with. There is always an expiry for all computers. And the short straw is what you are promoting.

I know with a fair amount of certainty what the annual costs of a strategic ownership is for a base Mini or a base Studio will be. The drop and the cost of ownership relates to 4 values: 1: what I pay, 2; what I sell it for, 3: repairs/maintenance and 4: Period of ownership.

Applicable to any PC/Mac and any object with some sort of value attached to it. For the Mini, the annual ownership costs are extremely pleasant. What anyone else is paying for/selling these for influences the general picture, but the only thing that matters for my ownership are the 4 values I listed. What I pay for it, what I sell it for, what I have to pay for repairs/maintenance, and the period I can allocate those costs to. What you or anyone else pay or sell a M4 makes no difference to that simple calculation for my ownership. Paying full retail, a M4 Mini will cost me about 100 USD/Year or less including vat. At discount it will cost me give or take 50 USD a year.

Mac as my choice of platform is not emotional or a result of fandom. It is based upon experience with a lot of different systems and OSes like MSdos, a pile of Windows generations, various *nix, Linux, OSX and what not, on various hardware from towers, workstations, minipcs, thin clients, a couple of servers and many laptops. It is a pragmatic choice. I also have an preference for platform independent applications, which quite a few are. You are entirely free to prefer something else

If you don`t care at all about anything but Windows, why are you here?

 

[throAU]

Let's see, according to the website the SER 8 with a Ryzen 8745HS and 24 GB/ 1 TB is $500.

According to the PassMark benchmark site the 8745HS tests at 30,555, the M4 10 core is 24,550, and the M4 Pro 14 core is 38,470. For power consumption the Ryzen is 45 W, the M4 10 core is 22 W, the M4 Pro is not given.

The Beelink has two NVME slots, and two slots of upgradable RAM. Macs have Thunderbolt. Beeline has a power brick, which offends some people, but others like as the heat source is away from the CPU.

I'm not sure of this chip but other Ryzens are made with the 5nm process the M2 is using. It is certainly a worthy competitor to Apple Silicon. As the Red Queen said, "You have to run as fast as you can to keep up" or something like that.

How's the GPU and NPU performance on that Beelink?

 

[kasakka]

Dual NVMe slots on the Beelink
Be still my heart 🥰

And LOOK at the ports!

Audio jacks and USB-C and USB-A on both the front and the back!??
wow

This is what a computer should look like

Yeah I'd rather see something like this on a Mac Mini too.

USB-A is unfortunately not going anywhere. Peripherals still tend to come with USB-C to USB-A cables so you'll have to get some adapters, cables or a hub. Looking at all those ports, I could probably plug in all my peripherals to this, just barely.

Being able to just plug in two displays is nice, no adapters or USB-C->DP cables needed. Many displays still don't come with USB-C connections unfortunately.

If a small manufacturer like Beelink can do it, why can't Apple offer at least two HDMI 2.1 ports?

 

[throAU]

USB-A is unfortunately not going anywhere. Peripherals still tend to come with USB-C to USB-A cables so you'll have to get some adapters, cables or a hub. Looking at all those ports, I could probably plug in all my peripherals to this, just barely.

Most of the stuff I have bought in the past 12 months comes with a type A to C adapter in the box and is C natively on the device.

Unless you're living in the past, the type C only ports are not an issue for most things you are going to buy today and reliable adapters (I have a couple) are like $5 each.

 

[kasakka]

Unless you're living in the past, the type C only ports are not an issue for most things you are going to buy today and reliable adapters (I have a couple) are like $5 each.

USB-A to C adapters tend to be pretty fragile in my experience, it's easy to bend the USB-C end of the adapter by accident due to the larger surface area of the USB-A side.

For devices designed for plugging in multiple C type cables, those C ports might be too close together to even fit an adapter like that.

Buying C to C cables is another added expense.

Out of all the peripherals I use atm, it's half USB-C and half USB-A/B/micro/mini, or hardwired USB-A on the device end. Easier to just use a USB-A hub with these.

That's why I say the world as it is, is not USB-C only ready.

 

[Tago]

Most of the stuff I have bought in the past 12 months comes with a type A to C adapter in the box and is C natively on the device.

Unless you're living in the past, the type C only ports are not an issue for most things you are going to buy today and reliable adapters (I have a couple) are like $5 each.

There`s certainly some gear still on the USB A/B bandwagon, for instance dacs/headphone amps (and probably pro audio gear), believe 3Dconnexion is still at it with USB A, and probably for gaming gear and so on too.

Believe there are USB C alternatives to pick in a lot of cases, but one might have to exclude some options which otherwise would be preferable if people want to go all in USB C connectors. As I certainly want. The for now unavoidable alternative on MY wishlist is some 3Dconnexion gear and having to choose between different alternatives for sound. I`m in no rush for 3Dconnextion and I expect them to make the transition, perhaps this year or so. Blackmagic are in transition, but the gear in my sphere of interest are USB C. That`s just wishlist/curiosity stuff on my part. Don`t really need it at all.

Monitor manufacturers/brands bestow their monitors with a lot of various connectors, I do indeed welcome the transition to USB C only.

The more consistent Apple and their computer/cellular/pad competitors are, the faster manufacturers of everything else will make the move. It will become a competitive disadvantage to stick to USB A/B unless their focus is upon servicing customers reluctant to or in need to stick with USB A/B.

That makes up for a great market for docks and cables/dongles, and when the outbid for this kind of stuff drops, it will be the stronger indication of the USB C penetration. A lot of USB A gear will work well for a long time regardless of USB A vanishing from the computers, as it certainly will. Entirely.

I don`t really want any docks on my desk, but if I contrary to my believes would need one, it`s USB C connectors and a card reader only.

Having bells and whistles and the kitchen sink is kind of a familiar scenario having used Thinkpads for many years. I get why they chose that, but to me it was just annoying. Liked the smart card reader though

 

[Aoligei]

There`s certainly some gear still on the USB A/B bandwagon, for instance dacs/headphone amps (and probably pro audio gear), believe 3Dconnexion is still at it with USB A, and probably for gaming gear and so on too.

Believe there are USB C alternatives to pick in a lot of cases, but one might have to exclude some options which otherwise would be preferable if people want to go all in USB C connectors. As I certainly want. The for now unavoidable alternative on MY wishlist is some 3Dconnexion gear and having to choose between different alternatives for sound. I`m in no rush for 3Dconnextion and I expect them to make the transition, perhaps this year or so. Blackmagic are in transition, but the gear in my sphere of interest are USB C. That`s just wishlist/curiosity stuff on my part. Don`t really need it at all.

Monitor manufacturers/brands bestow their monitors with a lot of various connectors, I do indeed welcome the transition to USB C only.

There will be transit to USB-C only monitors. HDMI and Display Port is here to stay.

The more consistent Apple and their computer/cellular/pad competitors are, the faster manufacturers of everything else will make the move. It will become a competitive disadvantage to stick to USB A/B unless their focus is upon servicing customers reluctant to or in need to stick with USB A/B.

There isn’t any competitive disadvantage to have more port, people aren’t going to not buy a devices because it offers more ports.

 

[Aoligei]

USB-A to C adapters tend to be pretty fragile in my experience, it's easy to bend the USB-C end of the adapter by accident due to the larger surface area of the USB-A side.

For devices designed for plugging in multiple C type cables, those C ports might be too close together to even fit an adapter like that.

Buying C to C cables is another added expense.

Out of all the peripherals I use atm, it's half USB-C and half USB-A/B/micro/mini, or hardwired USB-A on the device end. Easier to just use a USB-A hub with these.

That's why I say the world as it is, is not USB-C only ready.

I hate USB-C adapter . I have USB-C adapter that connects to my Surface Pro, even the slightest movement will disconnect the external monitors that connects to the adapter.

 

[Aoligei]

That was not a Windows rant. I have sorted out a pile of low spec Windows computers, and they always slows down. The reason I know is that I have owned them, and sorted out scores of low spec Windows machines, as "I was the guy" who could do that. Knock yourself out with this category and I wish you as much joy you can get out of them, but advocating them as a great or even good alternative to other users is not great advise at all. It is cruel.

You state you are not buying these for the performance and that`s indeed fine by me, but they don`t sustain the performance over time, that`s why the loss in value is high, and that`s ONE reason for Windows budget users are preoccupied with upgrades. Because the need it to keep their performance level and extend longevity. These machines are made to be used for a short time then recycling. There is a win 11 cutoff for a reason beyond the desire to sell more machines.

All computers turns obsolete, Macs do, and even Linux installations will notice that with the longevity they have success with. There is always an expiry for all computers. And the short straw is what you are promoting.

I know with a fair amount of certainty what the annual costs of a strategic ownership is for a base Mini or a base Studio will be. The drop and the cost of ownership relates to 4 values: 1: what I pay, 2; what I sell it for, 3: repairs/maintenance and 4: Period of ownership.

Applicable to any PC/Mac and any object with some sort of value attached to it. For the Mini, the annual ownership costs are extremely pleasant. What anyone else is paying for/selling these for influences the general picture, but the only thing that matters for my ownership are the 4 values I listed. What I pay for it, what I sell it for, what I have to pay for repairs/maintenance, and the period I can allocate those costs to. What you or anyone else pay or sell a M4 makes no difference to that simple calculation for my ownership. Paying full retail, a M4 Mini will cost me about 100 USD/Year or less including vat. At discount it will cost me give or take 50 USD a year.

Mac as my choice of platform is not emotional or a result of fandom. It is based upon experience with a lot of different systems and OSes like MSdos, a pile of Windows generations, various *nix, Linux, OSX and what not, on various hardware from towers, workstations, minipcs, thin clients, a couple of servers and many laptops. It is a pragmatic choice. I also have an preference for platform independent applications, which quite a few are. You are entirely free to prefer something else

If you don`t care at all about anything but Windows, why are you here?

To summaries all your writing, you dislike Windows. I have Microsoft Surface Pro 7 and very old ThinkPad (second generation Core i5), running Windows 10. It runs fine without any hiccups.

My experience with old Mac, especially Macs that Apple abandoned, Windows runs better than jam new MacOS into these machine.

 

[Tago]

To summaries all your writing, you dislike Windows. I have Microsoft Surface Pro 7 and very old ThinkPad (second generation Core i5), running Windows 10. It runs fine without any hiccups.

My experience with old Mac, especially Macs that Apple abandoned, Windows runs better than jam new MacOS into these machine.

Core i5 isn`t the lowest tier for Thinkpads, i3 is/was.

Knock yourself out and have fun, makes no difference to me whatsoever. I don`t care what other people prefer as long as I can choose whatever i find preferable to me.

(I write this on my spare, a i5 3320 8gb HD4000 1600x900, a T430 14" from 2012 and I have had both win 7 and 10 on it. Although it isn`t the lowest spec, it IS low spec. AND a drag. I also had a maxed out T420 when those were new (sticking to those generations only), and that I believe was the last one before Lenovo went all in on chiclet keyboards. Yeah that long ago.

If you argue that your TP runs fine, you certainly aren`t spoiled, that`s for sure, Maybe that explains your advocacy for the lowest tier of winminis. As said be fore, knock yourself out in joy, but this stuff seriously got nothing to do with M4 Minis and computers with similar performance at all. There are all sorts of reasons for picking lowest tier mini PC`s and I have no problem whatsoever with that.

But insinuating those are "good" alternative to M4 Minis when the basis is being content with the TP your are referring to? Doesn`t make sense at all.

 

[aevan]

Mini PCs were around forever and it is certainly not riding the waive of mini's popularity.

One thing is that most folks probably don't need the power of M4 processor. For example: All I need a mini PC to do is be quite, have enough processing power to do 4K streaming, some office editing. Even the $300 mini PC with Intel N200 processor will do the trick. Plus these machine have upgradable storage, RAM, bunch of USB-A port, headphone jack etc. It doesn't matter these machine benchmarked 1/10th of M4, it does what I asked for, then it is money that I saved.

In some sense, these mini PCs are superior products than Mac mini. It is cheaper, more upgradable option, more port, runs Windows or Linux.

Mini PCs existed for a while, sure, so did phones before the iPhone. And yet, when Apple starts a certain trend, you can see how other companies start to change their designs.

As for your other claim: “In some sense”, any product can be superior to another, depending on the criteria used in the comparison. For example, if you must use Windows, literally any PC is superior to a Mac for that reason. Your needs are obviously specific, you basically described a streaming box. But if we’re talking about a general purpose computing device, most people will appreciate the performance and the experience of the Mac Mini compared to any PC of that size.

You might prefer a cheap mini PC and that is valid. But that’s you. When we’re looking at these computers as products that will be used by millions - the new Mac Mini blows the competition out of the water. It’s just that good.

 

[Aoligei]

Mini PCs existed for a while, sure, so did phones before the iPhone. And yet, when Apple starts a certain trend, you can see how other companies start to change their designs.

As for your other claim: “In some sense”, any product can be superior to another, depending on the criteria used in the comparison. For example, if you must use Windows, literally any PC is superior to a Mac for that reason. Your needs are obviously specific, you basically described a streaming box. But if we’re talking about a general purpose computing device, most people will appreciate the performance and the experience of the Mac Mini compared to any PC of that size.

It depends the need. Mac mini won’t bring more snappy performance than Intel in terms of web browsing, video streaming etc. A mini PC with 16 or 32GB memory might performs better than Mac mini and probably A LOT cheaper too.

You might prefer a cheap mini PC and that is valid. But that’s you. When we’re looking at these computers as products that will be used by millions - the new Mac Mini blows the competition out of the water. It’s just that good.

Blows the competition out of water is subjective terms. In some people’s opinion, an upgradable PC blows Mac Mini with everything soldiered on the motherboard. Mac mini won’t below competition out of water in terms of gaming performance with triple A titles.

 

[Tago]

It depends the need. Mac mini won’t bring more snappy performance than Intel in terms of web browsing, video streaming etc. A mini PC with 16 or 32GB memory might performs better than Mac mini and probably A LOT cheaper too.



Blows the competition out of water is subjective terms. In some people’s opinion, an upgradable PC blows Mac Mini with everything soldiered on the motherboard. Mac mini won’t below competition out of water in terms of gaming performance with triple A titles.

Seriously doubt I`ll get more bang for the buck at retail - annual cost of ownership - than a Mini by anything purchased for general purpose usage. It will be cheaper per year to own the Mac Mini I have on order than having owned the old hag Thinkpad I have kept as a spare for a few years. When that one is disposed of, subtracting a potential resale value, it would have cost me in excess of 50% more per annum. For a significantly worse drag. The cheapo miniwins barely have resale value after 2-3 years.

I leave gaming to gamers. I don`t, thus I won`t pony up for gaming specs no matter what. You keep on inventing various arguments to make your case. The thing is, the Minis are entry level general purpose macs which happens to be capable of a bit more. AND they are extremely cost efficient to own.

 

[Aoligei]

Seriously doubt I`ll get more bang for the buck at retail - annual cost of ownership - than a Mini by anything purchased for general purpose usage. It will be cheaper per year to own the Mac Mini I have on order than having owned the old hag Thinkpad I have kept as a spare for a few years. When that one is disposed of, subtracting a potential resale value, it would have cost me in excess of 50% more per annum. For a significantly worse drag. The cheapo miniwins barely have resale value after 2-3 years.

You are comparing Apple to oranges. Are you saying you are selling Mac mini in 2-3 years? I showed you example of M1 Mac mini. You can get this thing for like $400 or less (in Canadian term). MacBook Air M1 are around $600-$700 ($1200 plus tax brand new). Mac losses 50% of value around 4 years. Cost of owning MacBook Air M1 is around $189((1200*1.13-$600)/4) a year for 4 year time.

Other example: 12inch MacBook 2015 with Core M 1.1GHz, 8GB of RAM, 500GBSSD. Retailed for $1906CAD at time. Retail Sales tax in Ontario is 13%. Total cost is $2154CAD. Almost ten years down the road, I grabbed this for around $200 used. That is 10% of original value. So the total cost fo 10 years is $2154-$200 = $1954, which is $195 dollars a year.

For general purpose computing tasks. The refurbished ThinkPad which I got for little over $300 5-years ago still connected to my TV for streaming video and I take it to my room for office work. Guess what, the annual cost of ownership is around $60. The ThinkPad which uses third gen Core i5 has similar spec with 2012 MacBook Pro. Guess what, 2012 MacBook Pro is stucks with MacOS Catalina, which means usability is getting worse day by day. But the ThinkPad still runs latest Windows 10 with updated security patches. The annual cost of Windows ownership getting smaller and smaller.

A mini PC with Risen processor or newer Intel N100 processor with decent of RAM and storage, will run Windows 11 pretty well for next 5 years. The annual cost of these machine is well under your annual cost of M4 Mac mini.

I highly double $800 Mac mini M4 will provide more utility for general computing use. It certainly not going to play video any faster or I can do office work in significant faster.

I leave gaming to gamers. I don`t, thus I won`t pony up for gaming specs no matter what. You keep on inventing various arguments to make your case. The thing is, the Minis are entry level general purpose macs which happens to be capable of a bit more. AND they are extremely cost efficient to own.

Where did you get impression Mac mini is more cost efficient to own? Just admin you dislike Windows and prefer MacOS. There is no shame for that.

 

[Tago]

Thing is, you are claiming those cost for old rubbish and low spec stuff which are sloughs from day one. I calculate for a fresh release, a new, capable machine. Your cost is 50 or whatever for slomos with glue, my cost is 50 for good performance. Have fun.

I am well aware of how prices develops in the 2nd hand market where I reside, and it has been a very similar development for a long time. I also am aware of when prices starts moving. It is very predictable way beyond reasonable doubt. It will drop USD 200 or less in 18-24 months, and the retailer already absorbed 100 of those 200, thus 50 a year.

I won`t explain this to you again, it is basic and very simple math.

I used Microsoft products before Windows existed and I have had all the rides with windows for 3 decades +. That`s why I prefer almost anything else. Win is still around due to market force. Got nothing to do with quality.

 

[Aoligei]

Thing is, you are claiming those cost for old rubbish and low spec stuff which are sloughs from day one. I calculate for a fresh release, a new, capable machine. Your cost is 50 or whatever for slomos with glue, my cost is 50 for good performance. Have fun.

M4 Mac mini could be slough from day one for anyone who dislike MacOS... Doesn't matter how good the machine is.

I am well aware of how prices develops in the 2nd hand market where I reside, and it has been a very similar development for a long time. I also am aware of when prices starts moving. It is very predictable way beyond reasonable doubt. It will drop USD 200 or less in 18-24 months, and the retailer already absorbed 100 of those 200, thus 50 a year.

I won`t explain this to you again, it is basic and very simple math.

A quick search from Swappa: MacBook Air 2022 M2, Midning 256GB. Released Jun 2022. Priced for $618USD This is about 2 and half years old. Retail price $999USD.

This is more than $50 years job.. .And it dropped lot more than 200USD in 18-24 months.

I used Microsoft products before Windows existed and I have had all the rides with windows for 3 decades +. That`s why I prefer almost anything else. Win is still around due to market force. Got nothing to do with quality.

So? You still dislike Windows.. You have already showed your strong dislike towards Windows...

 

[aevan]

It depends the need. Mac mini won’t bring more snappy performance than Intel in terms of web browsing, video streaming etc. A mini PC with 16 or 32GB memory might performs better than Mac mini and probably A LOT cheaper too.



Blows the competition out of water is subjective terms. In some people’s opinion, an upgradable PC blows Mac Mini with everything soldiered on the motherboard. Mac mini won’t below competition out of water in terms of gaming performance with triple A titles.

You like Windows and this is bothering you. We see this type of coping every time a new Apple Silicon Mac is launched.

If you prefer PCs so much, you know what you want to buy. What do you care what others prefer? Do you need validation for your preference?

 

[Aoligei]

You like Windows and this is bothering you. We see this type of coping every time a new Apple Silicon Mac is launched.

If you prefer PCs so much, you know what you want to buy. What do you care what others prefer? Do you need validation for your preference?

I like both Windows and MacOS, I have Windows tower and laptop and I also have M1 Mac mini and MacBook Air.

I just don't find macOS is so much superior than some of you folks claims and claim Windows is trash.

Essentially, people use computer different way.

$300 low end PC serves its purpose and has its own use case and if the so called low end trash is enough for its users, then M4 is not any better than that. Likewise, if user needs to do heavy video editing, then Apple Silicon Mac would be better than $300 low end PC.

 

[aevan]

I like both Windows and MacOS, I have Windows tower and laptop and I also have M1 Mac mini and MacBook Air.

I just don't find macOS is so much superior than some of you folks claims and claim Windows is trash.

Essentially, people use computer different way.

$300 low end PC serves its purpose and has its own use case and if the so called low end trash is enough for its users, then M4 is not any better than that. Likewise, if user needs to do heavy video editing, then Apple Silicon Mac would be better than $300 low end PC.

I am not calling anything trash. But Mac Mini will reignite this small form factor trend, because Apple is a trendsetter and Mini is a great computer.