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darkus

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 5, 2007
382
153
Ok so every thread here and on SM keeps complaining about the same 2 things:
- Why does the new iPad 10th gen only use Pencil 1
- Why does the iPad pro miss out on the landscape camera

I mean, the answer is pretty obvious.

How would you fit both a magnetic charger and landscape camera in the small same area?

The iPad can thus get away with Pencil 1 to get around the problem, and since Pros already have Pencil 2, and are used for pro things that need a better pencil, you cant take that away from them.

But I have faith that in forthcoming generations Apple above other companies will figure out how to fit both in the same region, in a cost effective way
 
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Pakaku

macrumors 68040
Aug 29, 2009
3,200
4,605
How much of an improvement does it make to have the camera in the landscape position? I hold and use my pro in both orientations and don't really run into the camera being blocked much. FaceID doesn't care about device orientation and I'm not really unlocking very often.

I suppose the regular iPad is designed for people who prefer the landscape/laptop form (hence the new keyboard case) and don't use the Pencil as much if at all. If you're that kind of person and need it in those rarer moments, there's still a way to charge it.

On a brighter note, at least the adapter means you can actually use the Pencil while it's charging, since you end up using an actual flexible cable... Looks less ridiculous than having it stick out of the port, too
 
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pedregosa

macrumors regular
Mar 31, 2010
242
221
How much of an improvement does it make to have the camera in the landscape position? I hold and use my pro in both orientations and don't really run into the camera being blocked much. FaceID doesn't care about device orientation and I'm not really unlocking very often.
I think it is a big deal. It means that if you are looking at the person(s) you are talking to with the device in horizontal mode, it appears to them that you are looking away at something else. To appear to the other person to be looking at them, you actually have to be looking away at the camera on the side. For people who use Zoom, etc., on a frequent basis, it is far from ideal -- especially if it is for work reasons.
 

pedregosa

macrumors regular
Mar 31, 2010
242
221
I think it is a big deal. The issue is not about blocking. The previous positioning means that if you are looking at the person(s) you are talking to with the device in horizontal mode, it appears to them that you are looking away at something else. To appear to the other person to be looking at them, you actually have to be looking away at the camera on the side. For people who use Zoom, etc., on a frequent basis, it is far from ideal -- especially if it is for work reasons.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,568
31,138
Seattle WA
I think it is a big deal. It means that if you are looking at the person(s) you are talking to with the device in horizontal mode, it appears to them that you are looking away at something else. To appear to the other person to be looking at them, you actually have to be looking away at the camera on the side. For people who use Zoom, etc., on a frequent basis, it is far from ideal -- especially if it is for work reasons.
Agree. You end up with the effect of the TV news presenter looking at the wrong camera.
 

EnigmaticZee

macrumors regular
May 31, 2022
113
132
Lalaland
Welcome to Macrumours, where any attempt at making sense is countered by "It's Apple! I expect them to be able to bend the laws of physics!" or something along that line.
You do realize, they probably have done the job and just holding on? Side orientation is going to make into pro lineup in 2023 guaranteed and that point too, they won't be bending any laws of physics. It is just coconut blind Apple fanboys. Every time you criticize the Lord Apple, they get triggered knowing very well deep down that Apple did wrong!
 

erikkfi

macrumors 68000
May 19, 2017
1,726
8,091
I think Apple wanted to squeeze one more round out of the current, settled iPad Pro design before addressing how to move the camera to the landscape rail. I’m confident it’s doable even if it means moving the Pencil charger to one of the portrait rails.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,960
22,851
Singapore
You do realize, they probably have done the job and just holding on? Side orientation is going to make into pro lineup in 2023 guaranteed and that point too, they won't be bending any laws of physics. It is just coconut blind Apple fanboys. Every time you criticize the Lord Apple, they get triggered knowing very well deep down that Apple did wrong!

If the camera does move to landscape for the pro iPads, it simply means that Apple has decided on another way of storing the Apple Pencil somewhere else, rather than somehow finding a way for both to co-exist.

It’s not about being triggered, but about striving to be right. If that means you end up being a contrarian, so be it. Too many people here strive to be a contrarian (especially when it comes to anything and everything that Apple does) and end up being wrong as a result.

That’s the difference.
 
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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,910
11,279
I realised that reasoning very early on when people were outraged about newest low end iPad not supporting Apple Pencil 2. Yet, very few respond to that or understand.
Gotta say, customers need to do better. NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO ANYTHING.
 

jclardy

macrumors 601
Oct 6, 2008
4,199
4,505
Shhhh… don’t try to use logic with people who just want to state that Steve Jobs would have never allowed this or something something greed…
Well...historically Steve did come back to Apple and cut out a ton of products from an Apple that had spread itself too thin. The difference now is that Apple shouldn't be spread too thin as a trillion dollar company, but it still seems like they are based on software quality and a seemingly disjointed product strategy across their lines.

And to "fix" this iPad - put it on the top where the camera used to be? I'm pretty sure they didn't do it because then the new iPad would literally be the Microsoft Surface design from ten years ago. Kickstand on the back, detachable keyboard, magnetic pen attachment on the "side" in landscape.
 

PeteBurgh

macrumors 6502
Jun 25, 2014
281
622
people were outraged about newest low end iPad not supporting Apple Pencil 2...Gotta say, customers need to do better. NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO ANYTHING.
I don't think it just that new 10th gen iPad only supports the older Pencil.

It's more that there are weird compromises across the whole product line that seem avoidable. Having an Pencil that an iPad can't charge without a dongle seems clumsy and muddled. Exactly the sort of problem that Apple is supposed to be good at elegantly solving.

Similarly, you can pay MacBook Pro money for an iPad Pro, yet get an industrial design that hasn't changed since 2018 and an iPadOS that remains very limited.

So I don't think it's just about entitled customers being bratty, but people who really like the iPad who wished there weren't quite so many compromises. Timing matters too - this isn't really Apple's fault, but it really doesn't help that the prices have spiked so much for European customers. Even the new 'low-end' model and mid-range Air are pretty spendy, particularly if you (not unreasonably) want more than 64GB of storage.
 
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darkus

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 5, 2007
382
153
As a follow up, I also see the choice for a prospective buyer very easy.

Want/need a pencil, then get the air.

Want an iPad don’t care about pencil, get iPad.

Seems actually very straightforward to me.

On this latest “controversy” I just don’t see what the debate is. And believe me I’m no fan boy and have posts deleted for being “negative” about Apple in the past. But on this round, their move seems very logical given the probable technical constraints of having to put a camera and pencil rail in the same place
 

BotchQue

macrumors 6502
Dec 22, 2019
482
643
The Apple Pencil III will have the camera built into its side, so next year's iPads can have a bezel-less screen. Its twue, I read it on the internet.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,518
31,848
Welcome to Macrumours, where any attempt at making sense is countered by "It's Apple! I expect them to be able to bend the laws of physics!" or something along that line.
Until of course we get an iPad Pro with a landscape camera and a pencil that attaches somewhere magnetically.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,518
31,848
If the camera does move to landscape for the pro iPads, it simply means that Apple has decided on another way of storing the Apple Pencil somewhere else, rather than somehow finding a way for both to co-exist.

It’s not about being triggered, but about striving to be right. If that means you end up being a contrarian, so be it. Too many people here strive to be a contrarian (especially when it comes to anything and everything that Apple does) and end up being wrong as a result.

That’s the difference.
Forcing people to use a dongle to make something work isn’t being a contrarian it’s just bad design. If this was one of Apple’s competitors people here would be making fun of them.
 
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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,910
11,279
So I don't think it's just about entitled customers being bratty, but people who really like the iPad who wished there weren't quite so many compromises.
By saying that I should’ve also say that implies Apple having no right To assume their customer base will just suck their lives for latest and greatest no matter what forever either. They are NOT entitled to stay the way they are indefinitely. EU USB-C ruling is a prime example of that.
My bad.
 

eyeseeyou

macrumors 68040
Feb 4, 2011
3,384
1,594
Ok so every thread here and on SM keeps complaining about the same 2 things:
- Why does the new iPad 10th gen only use Pencil 1
- Why does the iPad pro miss out on the landscape camera

I mean, the answer is pretty obvious.

How would you fit both a magnetic charger and landscape camera in the small same area?

The iPad can thus get away with Pencil 1 to get around the problem, and since Pros already have Pencil 2, and are used for pro things that need a better pencil, you cant take that away from them.

But I have faith that in forthcoming generations Apple above other companies will figure out how to fit both in the same region, in a cost effective way
I think the actual problem with the gen 1 compatibility is that to charge it with the iPad, like previous generations, you now need a dongle.
 

zkap

macrumors 6502
Jul 6, 2019
253
319
The iPad release is a mess. It's very odd to see such a confusing set of specs combined with these prices.

Regarding the reason why everyone is complaining about the pencil, it's faked outrage to get clicks. The video is funnier apparently if the youtuber is making faces in disbelief that the camera has been repositioned on the cheaper iPad but not on the premium one. They know why, it's just that it's better to compete with others over how many faces you can make about it.

I wonder if there is a technical challenge in just switching places of the camera and magnetic charger in the Pros or this is just Apple doing Apple things. Why didn't they actually make a substantial change in the Pros by placing the camera where it isn't stupid to use it on business calls? Can't the magnetic charger go to the side in landscape mode, or is it maybe that they'd then have to compromise on the speaker system?
 

eyeseeyou

macrumors 68040
Feb 4, 2011
3,384
1,594
Forcing people to use a dongle to make something work isn’t being a contrarian it’s just bad design. If this was one of Apple’s competitors people here would be making fun of them.
I was going to say that, technically, the gen 1 AP still works without a dongle but to establish a Bluetooth connection, it still requires that the apple pencil be inserted into the iPad, which you can no longer do without a dongle and cable.
 

ignatius345

macrumors 604
Aug 20, 2015
7,215
12,032
Welcome to Macrumours, where any attempt at making sense is countered by "It's Apple! I expect them to be able to bend the laws of physics!" or something along that line.
Also, this is where the pearl-clutching about bezels comes back to bite everyone in the ass.
 
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