Expanded Mouse Cursor Support Coming to iPadOS 14 Alongside New Smart Keyboards With Trackpads

[jlc1978]

I don't think providing a hybrid experience implies full featured apps. Only time will tell

Possibly, but I think if the apps don't have the same functionality as the desk top versins having the iPad replace a Mac will still be a bit of a challenge. Until they deliver 90% of the functionality most users need the iPad will remain a good now and then tool but not a replacment, IMHO.

Right now the Mac -> iPad OS delta in functionality is too big, at least for my needs. I even find the Offcie Win -> Mac gap frustrating at times.

I use windows every day. It's great. Icloud for windows works well now, so swapping files off and onto the
is super easy.

I have found Win10 to be a good OS, running it in a VM for those programs that have no Mac version.

 

[jlc1978]

Some people have expressed concern that Apple is trying to turn the iPad into a Macbook replacement. Could there be another option?

Since there is now noise about an ARM based Mac (with MacOS) - could the iPad become powerful enough to run iPadOS in tablet mode but then run MacOS when connected to Mouse/Keyboard/Monitor?

best of both worlds on one piece of hardware?

Interesting idea but I think it would be problematic because:

1. People would want to use the Mac functionality without the KMM attached and be upset they can't
2. Some apps have no Mac equivalent so how do you switch between OS' when the KMM are attached?
3. Macs need more system and storage memory, driving up the costs.

I think eventually thee tablet/PC will merge, especially if the Mac goes ARM, but it will be one OS with widget apps for tablet mode.

 

[peglegjack]

If it was ever going to replace my tablet, it would at least have to be able to extend the screen, not just mirror it. This is essential and where the iPad obviously comes up short.

 

[cgsnipinva]

Interesting idea but I think it would be problematic because:

1. People would want to use the Mac functionality without the KMM attached and be upset they can't
2. Some apps have no Mac equivalent so how do you switch between OS' when the KMM are attached?
3. Macs need more system and storage memory, driving up the costs.

I think eventually thee tablet/PC will merge, especially if the Mac goes ARM, but it will be one OS with widget apps for tablet mode.

JLC interesting points. I was just merging all this information with a concept similar to Samsung's DEX. With regards to point number 2 - you can run the iPadapp in MacOS - that support is coming now I think and you could squeeze more memory into the iPad and leverage iCloud for file storage which would point people towards subscriptions.

It would be an interesting concept.

 

[JPack]

Or... Apple pretends they're leaks, and they come from Apple itself. It's referred to as "sending up a balloon". Apple "leaks" something and then sees how people react to it.

If reaction is positive, the leak is subsequently confirmed when they go ahead and do whatever it was that was "leaked" as a rumor. If the response is negative, or if public conversation reveals a problem that would cost them more money than they'd make, they go, "oh, that was all just a rumor," and disavow it like the Secretary would disavow a caught or killed IMF agent.

This post will self-destruct in five seconds.

There's less than 3 months before the typical June WWDC. This is waayyy to late to "sending up a balloon." Maybe if we added 12 months to the countdown clock to iOS 14, the balloon theory might be plausible.

 

[PostApple2016BrainWash]

The Smart Keyboard folio has been better than the MacBook keyboard for the last several years, up until the 16” MBP which finally doesn’t suck.

The smart keyboard for iPad is an inferior version compared to the 16”MBP

 

[farewelwilliams]

Since I do a good fraction of initial UI testing on the iOS Simulator (it’s usually much quicker than device downloading), I already have to make my apps pointer friendly.

probably going to need to worry about right-click guidelines, double-click guidelines, mouse-wheel guidelines, etc...

 

[cmaier]

The smart keyboard for iPad is an inferior version compared to the 16”MBP

Yes. I just said exactly that. What’s your point?

 

[firewood]

probably going to need to worry about right-click guidelines, double-click guidelines, mouse-wheel guidelines, etc...

I actually wish there was a way to add some of those inputs to my macOS Catalyst builds (can't be done). That would help make an iOS app work even better on a Mac.

But these input methods currently aren't required even for Mac App Store apps. Take a look. Tons of approved Mac App Store apps don't support all of those mouse inputs.

 

[bluecoast]

With this, the Steve Jobs famous quote that PCs will be trucks and tablets will be cars, will finally come true (though multi user logins would be nice).

 

[SpungoWarrior]

Draw on screen with an Apple Pencil? No.

Yes. You just refuse to do it.

Your insistence on using an Apple pencil is no different than someone wanting to use a mouse or a trackpad. There are lots of touchscreen laptops available.

 

[farewelwilliams]

I actually wish there was a way to add some of those inputs to my macOS Catalyst builds (can't be done). That would help make an iOS app work even better on a Mac.

But these input methods currently aren't required even for Mac App Store apps. Take a look. Tons of approved Mac App Store apps don't support all of those mouse inputs.

I didn't say you had to support all.

One time my app rejected for removing the keyboard shortcut to create a new window. I ended up removing that function from the menu and forced the app to quit if the user closed the window. App was accepted after.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Yes. You just refuse to do it.

Your insistence on using an Apple pencil is no different than someone wanting to use a mouse or a trackpad. There are lots of touchscreen laptops available.

keyword: ”wanting"
did I say "want"? no. let me refresh your memory on my original post

you don't need a mouse on the iPad Pro. it's stupid.

i need precision when drawing something to accomplish a critical task on my iPad and i just can't get that with my blunt fingers.

people don't need a mouse to accomplish a critical task on an iPad as all apps are optimized for fingers.

i believe needing something and wanting something are two completely different things so when you say me using an Apple pencil is "no different" than someone wanting to use a mouse, that is 100% incorrect.

feel free to reply, but i'm not going to waste anymore time reading your replies as you seem to be in denial here.

 

[Ghost31]

You’re holding on to something that was said several years ago, before the wearable and services margins were triple that of the Mac. Apple wouldn’t even miss the Mac if it went away, I don’t want that to happen but I think it will eventually.

Guess we’ll see? But what reasons do you actually have for believing they would want to merge everything beyond just...assumptions about what you think would be cool?

 

[Spock]

Guess we’ll see? But what reasons do you actually have for believing they would want to merge everything beyond just...assumptions about what you think would be cool?

Not going to argue with you anymore. My opinion is that the Mac will eventually go away as iOS becomes more powerful and closer to MacOS. Just like the Apple II went away when the Mac took off. And I don’t think that’s cool.

 

[Virinprew]

This news while great for many is troubling to others. Not everyone wants mouse support on an iPad. The main reason being that when mouse support it welcomed by Apple some developers will end up having apps that only function well when using a mouse. Thus encouraging users to have to use a mouse which is exactly the opposite of why many bought an iPad in the first place. This isn't blurring the lines between an iPad and an MacBook, this is bringing an iPad closer to becoming a MacBook and thus rending the iPad useless to people who don't want to have to carry around a mouse and keyboard.

I bet Apple will enforce a rule to adapt the UI when there is no trackpad. No need to worry.

 

[Ghost31]

Not going to argue with you anymore. My opinion is that the Mac will eventually go away as iOS becomes more powerful and closer to MacOS. Just like the Apple II went away when the Mac took off. And I don’t think that’s cool.

The Apple 2 was obsolete in many ways and couldn’t be improved upon the way Apple needed. It made sense for it to go away. But the Mac? What reason does Apple have to get rid of it? Macs are still the most profitable pcs in the industry aren’t they? Not to mention Apple has come out time and time again saying explicitly “we aren’t getting rid of the Mac”. The response? “I think you’re getting rid of the Mac”. So it’s kinda...funny seeing this response over and over again.

and I didn’t know we were arguing?Just having a conversation man

 

[jlc1978]

people don't need a mouse to accomplish a critical task on an iPad as all apps are optimized for fingers.

Optimized for fingers and useful with fingers are two different thinks. Trying to resize and match sizes on an iPad in PowerPoint is an exercise in frustration, compared with how easy it is with a mouse on a Mac.
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The Apple 2 was obsolete in many ways and couldn’t be improved upon the way Apple needed.

Perhaps, but the ][gs showed what it could have become, with the first color Finder, better music and graphical capabilities, etc. In the end, the Mac was Job's baby and the ][ the two Steve's; and Jobs wanted his vision to win out. Either way, Apple would have floundered, IMHO, trying to support two desktop OS'.
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Not going to argue with you anymore. My opinion is that the Mac will eventually go away as iOS becomes more powerful and closer to MacOS. Just like the Apple II went away when the Mac took off. And I don’t think that’s cool.

I think it will be more of a merger of the two; the challenge is to keep the iPad's simplicity of use and the Mac's ability to do many more powerful things. Not an easy task.

 

[scottylans]

i'm not talking about accessibility support. i'm talking about what the article says "using a mouse or a trackpad on iPadOS similar to using a mouse or trackpad on the Mac". no one needs that. current mouse accessibility on the iPad is fine.

Not even close, it's atrociously bad to what it could be.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Not even close, it's atrociously bad to what it could be.

for accessibility, it's fine. are you handicapped? if not, then you're using it wrong.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Optimized for fingers and useful with fingers are two different thinks. Trying to resize and match sizes on an iPad in PowerPoint is an exercise in frustration, compared with how easy it is with a mouse on a Mac.

Doubt it.

I don't use PowerPoint on iPad (or do PowerPoint in general) as I don't have a 365 subscription and I've never used Keynote on the iPad. With that said, I launched Keynote just now and found it extremely easy.

While resizing one object, tap the other object (use the other hand) to match the size

Literally only spent less than a minute in the app to figure that out and it's only a one step process. How you do this on PowerPoint on the Mac, I don't have a clue. Maybe it's in the menus or some magic keyboard shortcut I need to google up.

 

[firewood]

Not going to argue with you anymore. My opinion is that the Mac will eventually go away as iOS becomes more powerful and closer to MacOS. Just like the Apple II went away when the Mac took off. And I don’t think that’s cool.

Doubtful. The Apple II was never used to develop Mac software. And the Lisa continued to sell until after Mac software development was moved from the Lisa to the Mac.

There are well over a million paying iOS developers, and Apple depends on them for its massive App Store revenue (a Fortune 100 company size number). Given that number, the Mac isn't going away as long as it is still the best tool for hard-core software developers (e.g. command-line unix + Xcode + lldb, etc.), who are the ones developing the highest revenue apps (of which Apple gets 30%!).

Maybe most of the iOS UI design and artwork tools will migrate to iPadOS. Command-line utilities, debuggers, continuous integration build systems, software profiling tools, and the like? Bet against that.

 

[jlc1978]

Doubt it.

I don't use PowerPoint on iPad (or do PowerPoint in general) as I don't have a 365 subscription

Why do you doubt it if you’ve never done it? I use PP regularly and merely offering my informed opinion.

and I've never used Keynote on the iPad. With that said, I launched Keynote just now and found it extremely easy.

While resizing one object, tap the other object (use the other hand) to match the size

Literally only spent less than a minute in the app to figure that out and it's only a one step process. How you do this on PowerPoint on the Mac, I don't have a clue. Maybe it's in the menus or some magic keyboard shortcut I need to google up.

Doesn’t work. On a Mac you can select and size with the mouse or from the toolbar. On an iPad you don’t have the toolbar option; which is the crux of the challenge of the iPad being a viable Mac alternative for some Mac users, namely the lack of full featured productivity tools. It can get there but it’s not there yet.

And Keynote is a poor substitute for PP if you need to share files with Windows user; even if it is good as a Mac only tool.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Why do you doubt it if you’ve never done it? I use PP regularly and merely offering my informed opinion.

because I just did it easily in keynote. if one app can do it easily, another app can which is a valid reason for doubting it.

now if the other app can't, then it's not Apple's problem for a lack of mouse support, it's a failure of Microsoft for being unable to engineer a user-friendly solution. it doesn't make sense to ask for new hardware support for something that can easily be solved in software. now if it's a physical impossibility, then you might have a case. i'm sure there are a few situations where a mouse would be needed (first person shooter games?). but it's not enough to ask app developers to worry about yet another input device. there's a reason why apps are really good compared to Android right now, and part of the reason is because there's much less fragmentation.

Doesn’t work.

i specifically said my experience with keynote. i didn't say i was using powerpoint.

 

[jlc1978]

because I just did it easily in keynote. if one app can do it easily, another app can which is a valid reason for doubting it.

now if the other app can't, then it's not Apple's problem for a lack of mouse support, it's a failure of Microsoft for being unable to engineer a user-friendly solution. it doesn't make sense to ask for new hardware support for something that can easily be solved in software. now if it's a physical impossibility, then you might have a case. i'm sure there are a few situations where a mouse would be needed (first person shooter games?). but it's not enough to ask app developers to worry about yet another input device. there's a reason why apps are really good compared to Android right now, and part of the reason is because there's much less fragmentation.

The issue is not why such support is not included or whose fault it is, although Apple's failure to build in full mpouse supports puts a lot of the blame square on them IMHO; but the lack of it make it a lot more difficult for apps to be true desktop replacements since simple things are much harder to do; especially in productivity apps where a mouse makes it alot easier to make fine adjustments.

The mouse appears to be hardware limited and is quite useful in a lot more than games. The pencil is a step in the right direction; but an advantage of the mouse is the screen is nopt covered by your hand. The finger is much too coarse a tool for such work in general. It's fine for things like web browsing, reading, etc.

The other issue is iPad apps are often a subset of the desktop versions and thus often lack important features that make it easier to use the app or key functionality.

If Apple wants the iPad to be useful as a full time tool they need to add functionality missing in the hardware and encourage developers to incorporate it in apps to mimic their current desktop functionality as well as make iPad apps more full featured.

In the end it just comes down to different needs to meet for a tool to be useful.

i specifically said my experience with keynote. i didn't say i was using powerpoint.

I merely pointed out it doesn't work in PP after I tested it since you said you weren't sure. No worries.