Expert advice needed: is high saturation (15" AG screen) a defect?

[Jof]

Ok, first I'm not massively au fait with terms like gamut, saturation, gamma etc... so I might be using the wrong words.

So far I've been really lucky finding great icc color profiles for previous MBPs, but this new computer is turning out to be a nightmare.

Not matter what I do, no matter which profile I use, my new 9CB7 (15" early 2010 unibody hires anti glare) looks saturated... The effect is most clear around blues, such as hyperlinks and the color in the facebook logo, which are slightly tending more towards purple/magenta.

The effect reminds me a lot of what happens when wind up the saturation levels in an image editor.

Given that my old MBP works perfectly and doesn't have this with any profiles (even ones that are very wrong) and that is also has a Samsung panel, can I conclude this is a defect? Should I send it back, or can I assume hardware calibration will solve it?

Thanks

 

[Craigy]

My new 17" 2010 is slightly the same way... Though I can live with it... If it is driving me crazy at some point in the future I'll take it in under warranty. I would not want to do too much colour critical stuff on it, but I guess that's laptop screens full stop.

My old 15" MBP had a horrid screen in it - so this new 17 is a huge improvement.

I guess the best you can do is take it into a store and compare - if they have matt ones in there.

 

[Jof]

My new 17" 2010 is slightly the same way... Though I can live with it... If it is driving me crazy at some point in the future I'll take it in under warranty.

Could that work? Because part of the reason I'm panicking is that for various reasons (broken car; travelling abroad... etc) swapping it via the 14 day cool-off would be a real pain right now.

I guess that's laptop screens full stop.

My old 15" MBP had a horrid screen in it - so this new 17 is a huge improvement.

That's the annoying thing - apart from the annoying viewing angle that infects all MBs, my last one is amazing; side-by-side it's much better than this new one.

 

[Canuckistan]

AG / Glossy and saturation

Is it so that colours on AG screens are less saturated than on glossy, and that's why many photographers prefer the AG screen?

 

[Jof]

Is it so that colours on AG screens are less saturated than on glossy, and that's why many photographers prefer the AG screen?

But my AG is MORE saturated than my glossy :/ Not right at all!

 

[mynah]

Take it to the genius bar. The blue to magenta shift upon calibration (or using someone else's calibrated profile) is a valid issue.

My '08 has the same problem, and I found out from obsessive research that it's limited to the model of screen that I had. I tried two different calibration pucks and three different software packages. It worked perfectly on the '08 MBPs we have at the office, but they had a different screen model.

Apple tried to replace parts to fix it a few times with no luck; they kept replacing the screen with the same model b/c they apparently couldn't tell which one it was until it was installed. Now they're sending me a '10 replacement. I'm hoping I don't run into this issue again, but I think the best option here is to ask for a full replacement machine until you get a screen that doesn't shift when calibrated.

 

[Jof]

Take it to the genius bar. The blue to magenta shift upon calibration (or using someone else's calibrated profile) is a valid issue.

My '08 has the same problem, and I found out from obsessive research that it's limited to the model of screen that I had. I tried two different calibration pucks and three different software packages. It worked perfectly on the '08 MBPs we have at the office, but they had a different screen model.

Apple tried to replace parts to fix it a few times with no luck; they kept replacing the screen with the same model b/c they apparently couldn't tell which one it was until it was installed. Now they're sending me a '10 replacement. I'm hoping I don't run into this issue again, but I think the best option here is to ask for a full replacement machine until you get a screen that doesn't shift when calibrated.

Thank you very much; this helps me a lot. Appreciated!

 

[andrewfee]

The shift from blues towards purple is to be expected from (relatively) narrow gamut displays with colour management. It does not necessarily mean you have a bad profile/meter.

To quote an old post of mine from another forum:

….
Firstly, here is my current MacBook Pro profile (created with an i1Pro) compared with sRGB, with the MacBook's profile in colour, and the wireframe outline being sRGB:

Now I hope this bit is clear enough. The red dot is where blue is natively on the display. That is, if you send 0,0,255 to the display in an unmanaged application, you will get that colour.

The green dot is where blue is supposed to be with sRGB though.

What seems to happen is that in a colour-managed application, it basically draws a line from the white-point to the desired point, and picks the closest colour that is within gamut to display it on the screen, so even though your monitor can display a ‘bluer’ blue, it ends up shifted towards violet, as marked by the magenta dot in this image:

So it ends up looking a lot less blue, but is technically more accurate.

I have not yet profiled my new MBP's display (just turned up today) but it looks like it also has a 9CB7 panel. I'll post a profile created with an i1Pro and ColorEyes when I have.

Really, you ought to be using a profile custom-made for your specific screen (there is variation even within the same model) but it may be better than nothing.


Also, saturation is not really a function of whether or not the panel has a glossy/matte coating. It's to do with the display's colour gamut which is affected by a number of things such as the backlighting type used. (LED is typically wider gamut, and therefore more saturated than older CCFL panels)

 

[Jof]

The shift from blues towards purple is to be expected from (relatively) narrow gamut displays with colour management. It does not necessarily mean you have a bad profile/meter.... etc

You're a star! Yes, this is exactly the explanation I was looking for! Thank you I didn't want to attempt to explain what I see and use the wrong words (because it appears I am very good at getting misunderstood on forums), but what I originally wanted to say was that it was "out of gamut". If that's the correct phrase, then it's exactly what I see and your explanation makes perfect sense.

However, the fact still remains that my 9C85 on my 5,1 can run any calibrated 9C85 profile I find on here and look pretty nice indeed - no saturation. But the 9CB7 - whilst probably technically "correct" - looks pretty lame - especially compared to the 9C85.

So... can we conclude that the 9CB7 on the AG HiRes's has a relatively poor range? And, if so, I wonder if I can get lucky and get another screen...

 

[cyclical]

Out of the box, my MBP 15.5" HR-AG using the default 'Color LCD' profile isn't showing any of the anomalies described by the OP.

I have not yet profiled my new MBP's display (just turned up today) but it looks like it also has a 9CB7 panel. I'll post a profile created with an i1Pro and ColorEyes when I have.

I have an i1Display2. I haven't tried ColorEyes – is it superior to the i1Match3 software that comes with the i1D2 ?

 

[Jof]

Out of the box, my MBP 15.5" HR-AG using the default 'Color LCD' profile isn't showing any of the anomalies described by the OP.

What panel do you have? If it's a different panel, I'd be very interested to know!

 

[cyclical]

What panel do you have? If it's a different panel, I'd be very interested to know!

LTN154MT07. As for the 9cxx version, I don't know where that info is located?

 

[Jof]

LTN154MT07. As for the 9cxx version, I don't know where that info is located?

Mine's LTN154MT07 also. Hmm. Thx.

You'll see the XXXX version in the Color LCD profile:
System Preferences > Displays > Color > Color LCD > Line #17 (the Apple display and make information)

 

[andrewfee]

I have an i1Display2. I haven't tried ColorEyes – is it superior to the i1Match3 software that comes with the i1D2 ?

I find it makes the best profiles—it's a lot more thorough than most other applications.

I'll post a profile created with an i1Pro and ColorEyes when I have.

I have now created a profile with ColorEyes for my MacBook Pro's display.

I must say, Apple's default profile is much closer to being correct than it usually is, though it still reports gamut as being wider than it actually is. I've not really spent any time evaluating things, but it looks like the gamut is around sRGB, so it's certainly not that saturated. Compared to older panels though, it probably does look quite saturated. Blue does not seem to be an issue here.

A word of warning—I had white point tuning enabled when creating this profile. It ensures that white is at D65 rather than the panel's native white point, but that does tend to show more colour shifting with viewing angle on some LCDs.

 

[Jof]

It ensures that white is at D65 rather than the panel's native white point, but that does tend to show more colour shifting with viewing angle on some LCDs.

In all the other profiles I have, when I drag around a browser blues and text tend to shift to a "saturated magenta" color, if you know what I mean. I'm not massively worried about that per se... But I'm very curious because with the profile you've just sent, everything shifts to green when I drag! I'd love to know why

 

[andrewfee]

In all the other profiles I have, when I drag around a browser blues and text tend to shift to a "saturated magenta" color, if you know what I mean. I'm not massively worried about that per se... But I'm very curious because with the profile you've just sent, everything shifts to green when I drag! I'd love to know why

That will just be the slow pixel response of the panel—normal with any LCD to varying degrees.

The reason it's changed is probably because the LUT had to reduce the amount of blue to get the white point to D65:

(top-right)

If I had not used white-point tuning, it would have stayed the same.

 

[Jof]

That will just be the slow pixel response of the panel—normal with any LCD to varying degrees.

The reason it's changed is probably because the LUT had to reduce the amount of blue to get the white point to D65:

-img-

If I had not used white-point tuning, it would have stayed the same.

That kind of makes sense I guess. Cool - thanks for the info/analysis.

 

[Jof]

Ok, after considering all the helpful input you guys have given, I've concluded the screen is rubbish. Yes, theoretically it might not think it's wrong - but the reality is that the color is way out of whack with my other MBP, my Thinkpad, my old CRT computer, my iPhone, my iPod Touch, ... in fact, everything I've compared it against.

So I'm taking it back. Curses; I didn't want that to happen :/

Thanks for all your help though.

 

[ExcelonGT]

the level of knowledge in this thread far exceeds mine, but I ended up here because I am not satisfied with the default color profile on my new MBP. it seems "washed out" and too pink\purpleish, for lack of a better description.

I dont have the color calibration tools to tune my specific screen. can more people post their profiles for me to try out. Im sure if i try I couple, I'll find something that looks better than the default

 

[Jof]

the level of knowledge in this thread far exceeds mine, but I ended up here because I am not satisfied with the default color profile on my new MBP. it seems "washed out" and too pink\purpleish, for lack of a better description.

I dont have the color calibration tools to tune my specific screen. can more people post their profiles for me to try out. Im sure if i try I couple, I'll find something that looks better than the default

Search for "ICC" or "Profile" on this forum - there's about 4 or 5 profiles people have posted for the 9CB7.

I have had no luck solving the problem this way; the Apple Store people agree with me it's an issue and they've had no luck either. Worse still, I'd say that >70% of the new MBPs I've see (regardless of hires/glossy etc) are like this... In the shop, only the huge mac displays look correct to my eyes.

Is it "wrong" though?... not sure. Looks wrong to me - that's all I know.