mobilehaathi
macrumors G3
Oops, I missed that.
Ugh, worthless. This is one of the major reasons I haven't updated any of my computers to Lion.
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Exposé / Spaces in Mountain Lion
- Thread starter farmermac
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Oops, I missed that.
Ugh, worthless. This is one of the major reasons I haven't updated any of my computers to Lion.
Though I'm sure many will like the new features of ML, Apple has continued to ignore the mistakes of Lion.
By removing features like Expose and Spaces as it is in SL, they have made many users upset, and Apple continues to ignore this part of its user base.
I'm not planning to change from SL until they address these and other issues.
By removing features like Expose and Spaces as it is in SL, they have made many users upset, and Apple continues to ignore this part of its user base.
I'm not planning to change from SL until they address these and other issues.
I sympathize with the fact that you miss Expose and Spaces but being left 2 OS's behind is going to put you in an even worse state. I wish you luck but I don't expect you'll be able to hold on to Snow Leopard for much longer.
Krazy Bill
macrumors 68030
Why not? Will Apple send us a mysterious firmware update that nukes it? Will all the apps currently on my SL system suddenly stop working the day ML is released? 😱
Yup, or maybe do something like...stop developing any updates. In another year or two 3rd party developers will probably drop it too.
there's still lots of mac's running leopard, and tiger.
I guess im not too concerned with the lack of updates. Of the people I know using Mac's, only one person liked the changes of Lion overall (my dad, basically computer illeterate)
I guess im not too concerned with the lack of updates. Of the people I know using Mac's, only one person liked the changes of Lion overall (my dad, basically computer illeterate)
Krazy Bill
macrumors 68030
And this folks... pretty much sums up Lion. (And OS X in general from this day forward).
I've just spent the last 2 hours in Mountain Goat... running it from an external. My wife thought I'd finally gone off the deep end when I rebooted back into Snow Leopard, got on my knees and kissed my macbook. 🙁
DeckMan
macrumors regular
Did you all post feedback? http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html
I'm not saying they definitely will fix the problems with it if enough people complain, but it's more likely to help than chatting about it here. Just saying. 🙂
Also, you can add me to the list of people who actually liked the changes, because I always found it really hard to find the right window in Exposé if I have ~ 15 windows or more.
I'm not saying they definitely will fix the problems with it if enough people complain, but it's more likely to help than chatting about it here. Just saying. 🙂
Also, you can add me to the list of people who actually liked the changes, because I always found it really hard to find the right window in Exposé if I have ~ 15 windows or more.
Same here, Spaces confused me before Lion. I use Mission Control all the time...
I even try to three-finger swipe up in Windows... Of course it doesn't work...
Now, I admit that when you have a lot of windows open, it's hard to see which one is which, But I usually have them Minimized, or in a different space.
As for "Save As"...
Ever heard of "Save a Copy"?
Speaking for myself, I have sent a complaint to Apple and will probably will again once ML has come out and I have a better impression of what ML has changed. I'm sure others have done the same.
We know that some like the changes, but others like myself see Lion and in turn ML as losing many of the feature that we use frequently, and want to see the features returned without the loss of the new features that some do like.
SL's Expose: This should be able to easily work in Lion beside Mission Control since it is just a way of viewing open windows like the Dock and Apps Switcher.
This is what makes Spaces especially as it is in SL so great. You can just sort your apps by the task, i.e. email in 1 Space, word processor in a 2nd, etc. Then, you only worry about the number of windows per Space. Also, if you want an App to be always visible like Quicktime, you just set to be in all Spaces.
If Apple just gave us an option between Classic Spaces and Spaces in Mission Control, this would make many, if not all, people happy.
We know that some like the changes, but others like myself see Lion and in turn ML as losing many of the feature that we use frequently, and want to see the features returned without the loss of the new features that some do like.
SL's Expose: This should be able to easily work in Lion beside Mission Control since it is just a way of viewing open windows like the Dock and Apps Switcher.
This is what makes Spaces especially as it is in SL so great. You can just sort your apps by the task, i.e. email in 1 Space, word processor in a 2nd, etc. Then, you only worry about the number of windows per Space. Also, if you want an App to be always visible like Quicktime, you just set to be in all Spaces.
If Apple just gave us an option between Classic Spaces and Spaces in Mission Control, this would make many, if not all, people happy.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
I have mouse button 4 and button 5 set to respectively : "Mission Control" and "App Expose". So it's button 4, choose app, button 5.
And guess what, if I have 3 or more apps with 3 or more Windows each, pressing 3 clicks to achieve what 1 click did before is still a time saver, since I save in overall visual scanning.
Before, All Windows expose would be just a big mess. App expose and your favorite app switching method is cleaner and faster for me, as I don't like visual scanning.
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Uh ? I do this with Mission Control on Lion. Chrome is set to Desktop 1, Xcode to desktop 2, Photoshop/Illustrator to Desktop 3, Virtual Box to desktop 4. I have itunes set to "All desktops" so it's just stickied whereever I am working so I can change out my tunes...
And then I get App Expose to switch between the windows of only the active application, so I get less visual scanning (iTunes doesn't pop up into my XCode windows).
Frankly, I love Mission Control. I must be computer illiterate or something listening to some folks around here. 😕
What you describe hasn't been removed, it still exists in MC. Just because you can't find it, doesn't mean it ain't there 🙂
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Don't be silly. You're not illiterate, you're just not a "power" user 😉.
But seriously, your solution, or doing the same with hot corners (or even assigning a desktop for each app that you use with multiple windows and then assigning a hotkey to it), achieves things more quickly and elegantly. Of course, it requires remembering your customizations, and taking the time to customize things... Maybe that's what people are complaining about? They don't like to configure their computer experience to make their individual work environments optimal. This whole mission control business boggles my mind.
The more I read about it, the more I get the distinct impression everyone who is complaining simply doesn't want to think of new, and often better, ways of doing things and just want to stick with the old things. But in that case, I don't see why they want to upgrade to a new OS. Perhaps one day I'll understand though.
DeckMan
macrumors regular
This might apply to a lot of people who complain, but I accept that some could really be more productive with Exposé than with Mission Control. For example, I really didn't like the grid-based changes they made in Snow Leopard, because all windows turned to the same size in Exposé - no more recognizing a window based on its size in comparison to other windows. So I was thrilled to see they brought back comparative sizes in Mission Control.
Wait, what do you mean by that? Is there a way to make Mission Control display all windows, the old way?
That's not what his example described. So far as I know, no that feature doesn't exist. But there are comparable alternatives, see KnightWRX's example as a case in point.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
I remember when "Power User" defined users that actually knew how to use a computer and understood how computers/OSes/software worked. It seems a lot of people in the Mac/Apple community thinks "Power User" means users who use fast processors and tons of RAM whether they need them or not.
Baffling.
DeckMan
macrumors regular
Oh, okay. Yeah, the described use case would still work pretty much the same, just with App Exposé instead of Mission Control - and the new Spaces implementation would make it even easier because the number of desktop can be modified right from within MC and doesn't have to be a product (i.e. can be any number now, even prime). And QuickTime can still be set to be on all spaces, in case you meant that 🙂
Well the 2 circle jerkers in this thread can agree all they want that Mission Control is better then Expose, but it's just not the reality. You can tell yourself over and over that Apple can do no wrong, but the fact is Apple screws up often. sometimes they fix their mistakes (3rg gen ipod shuffle buttons brought back in 4th gen). They like to dumb down certain features until there's really no way to use an app or feature in a professional environment. It's good for the large percentage of Apple users who check email, facebook and itunes but sucks for people who have to work on a computer for 6-8 hours a day as part of their job.
Another fumble with Lion is the way Apple changed virtually all the trackpad gestures around. What a cluster...Its akin to taking the option, control and command button on the keyboards and switching their locations and functions around for no reason. Even if Apple did that, knightWRX would come in here and tell us it makes sense.
Let me guess, knightWRX, you use "natural" scrolling?
Another fumble with Lion is the way Apple changed virtually all the trackpad gestures around. What a cluster...Its akin to taking the option, control and command button on the keyboards and switching their locations and functions around for no reason. Even if Apple did that, knightWRX would come in here and tell us it makes sense.
Let me guess, knightWRX, you use "natural" scrolling?
DeckMan
macrumors regular
Rofl. Are you seriously playing the fanboy card? Well I do use natural scrolling (though you didn't ask me). I guess I must really be in love with Apple. If they advertised jumping off cliffs, I would totally do it. (Just saying, I realize you might not even have meant me.)
Apple does screw up often, but I don't consider Mission Control one of their screwups - at least not completely, just in part. That's just my opinion though, just like your opinion is that the old Exposé is superior.
Apple does screw up often, but I don't consider Mission Control one of their screwups - at least not completely, just in part. That's just my opinion though, just like your opinion is that the old Exposé is superior.
Agreed, and well said. I too use natural scrolling, and though I appear the fanboy of MC in this thread, I have complained my fair share regarding Apple on prior occasions.
See that is the difference between those that Like Mission Control and those that don't.
If you organize content by association i.e. by App. Then MC is wonderful. However, if content is just content, independent of its associated Application, then MC is a pain.
Everybody's mind works differently. Personally, I am incredibly visual, I can scan through 40-60 windows in OSX 10.5 Expose/Spaces (10.6 ruined it because it messes up the proportional sizing) spread across 4 different Spaces much faster than I can remember which application had the content I am looking for, switch to that application, then invoke App Expose, and then try to find the non-proportionally scaled window.
For me content is simply a visual image and finding a matching image is incredibly simple when that content is not covered up by five other windows.
MC requires much more active thinking for me than 10.5 Expose/Space and I find that MC breaks my concentration and flow of thought.
I think the MC versus 10.5 Expose/Spaces argument/discussion comes down to the fact that peoples minds work differently and MC reverses which type of mind benefits. i.e. people who found 10.5 messy and too much work seem to enjoy MC. People that liked the visual nature of 10.5 find MC too much work and annoying.
Can I work with MC. Sure, but it is annoying every time I use it. Hopefully a developer will be able to work out a powerful alternative. I pretty sure someone will because things like TotalFinder exist and that brought a good tabbed Finder experience.
Excellent description of the difference, so far as I can tell. You helped me sympathize with the complaints, finally. I guess my brain just remembers what apps I have open, even when there are many, so I only need to find the windows within them. And since I pretty much always work with the same groups of apps, force of habits makes me remember my hotkeys/configurations. But, if remembering all that requires effort, that would probably slow down my work and constantly irritate me to no end.
Thanks for making things clear.
From what I keep seeing in all these mission control sucks threads it is a vocal few that are touting the benefits of spaces/expose rather than the majority. I do think you have to start realising that you're now an edge case, and Apple don't really do edge cases.
Some of the arguments put forward for spaces/expose have been quite compelling and if those people haven't already then I would suggest sending that constructive feedback directly to Apple. It's possible that if enough people provide intelligent discourse then Apple might have an incentive to add the functionality back in (as they have done in the past).
Beyond that, there's nothing stopping any of you from learning how to program and creating your own version of spaces/expose. Or see if someone in the open source community feels the same way as you and is willing to commit time to creating it. Apple aren't the only ones who can provide this functionality you know.
Some of the arguments put forward for spaces/expose have been quite compelling and if those people haven't already then I would suggest sending that constructive feedback directly to Apple. It's possible that if enough people provide intelligent discourse then Apple might have an incentive to add the functionality back in (as they have done in the past).
Beyond that, there's nothing stopping any of you from learning how to program and creating your own version of spaces/expose. Or see if someone in the open source community feels the same way as you and is willing to commit time to creating it. Apple aren't the only ones who can provide this functionality you know.
This is great! Coupling this two finger slide up with the spacebar on the window works really well. I thought I knew all the mission control tricks but I guess I missed this. I wish this two finger slide up would work on the desktop icons too, though.
I definitely found the changes from Exposé/Spaces to Mission Control jarring. After all I do all my programming on a 13" Macbook Air, never hooked up to an external monitor, so Exposé/Spaces were a pretty fundamental part of my workflow. However, with a little research and time learning the new way I've pretty well warmed up to Mission Control. I'm hopeful they keep improving Mission Control over time...I'm not sure I can take any more paradigm shifts in window management.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
Ad-hominem aside (did you really need to insult people based on the fact they have a different opinion than you ? Debate the content, not the posters), reality is not your subjective opinion, no matter how much you want it to be. Mission Control is better than Expose for me and others. That's the reality of it. You may not like for whatever reason (be it lack of understanding of how it works or plain resistance to change), but your opinion is not more real than mine on the subject.
So please, refrain from insulting me and others because we happen to disagree with you. In fact, just today, I showed a few people a few tricks with the new features that changed, at least partly I hope, their minds about it. Keep an open mind about things and you'll be amazed at how much your stress levels diminish in life.
First thing I disabled on Lion. Works great on touch screens, works like crap with scroll wheels and touch pads.
Second was "Hide scrollbars", I want my scrollbars on all the time, they are an indication of how much document is available up and down from the position I am in and having to "scroll" to show them is a waste of time.
Third was "display dock blueish spots". I want to know what apps are running by quickly scanning the dock, so I can close whatever needs closing depending on what I'm about to do (plugging into the LAN at work with Skype running = Big no no).
In fact, there's tons of stuff I reverted back to "Snow Leopard" mode, I don't like all the changes in Lion. Launchpad ? Haven't seen it yet, probably never will. iCloud ? Nope, not for me.
But feel free to make assumptions about me just because I happen to like Mission Control and how it fixed Spaces/Expose for me.
I'm far from a "Apple does no wrong" kind of guy. If you've even read my post history, you'd know I'm very often critical of Apple and what they do. Mission Control just isn't one of those things. Neither is Gatekeeper yet (though I remain cautious about it) or the removal of X11 and Java or Autosave/Versions.
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I'm too OCD to have more than 1 app for a kind of content. I like organization and discipline on my computer. Code ? Xcode. Image manipulation ? Gimp. HTML ? Chrome. Everything works by app. So be it using Mouse 4 or 4 fingers up or CMD-TAB, I switch to the app for the content I need and then use Button 5 or 4 fingers down to get app expose and find the actual content I want.
So really, just popping up a bunch of Windows of different apps to me was complete lunacy. I never used Expose prior to Lion, everytime I did I would cry a little inside to the big mess that would pop up.