External SSD performance

[MallardDuck]

Ok, Color me confused. I've got Samsung T7 and T9 SSD's. The T7 is 1K speed, and the T9 is supposed to be 2K speed. Both are plugged into a Thunderbolt 4 hub, using USB-C cables that came with the drives.

They both benchmark exactly the same with blackmagic - .78K. I've tried plugging directly into the mac (16" M1 Max), with exactly the same result.

Any ideas?

 

[_timo_redux_]

Samsung T9 SSD review: Next-generation portable storage

Samsung's latest addition to its portable SSD lineup is the T9 which has plenty of drop protection and newfound speed improvements — at least for some users.

appleinsider.com

 

[MRxROBOT]

The T9 is a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 SSD. No Current Mac comes with USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, there aren't many PCs with it either. When USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 is not present, the drive connects at USB 3.1 Gen 2 (USB 3.2) at 10 Gbps. Your options of getting more than a 10Gbps with an external device is going to be limited to TB3/4 and USB4, which will give you up to ~25-30 Gbps.

 

[haralds]

I am using two OWC Envoy Express Thunderbolt 3 Enclosures for NVMe M.2 SSD, which give me about 1.2 - 1.4MB/s. I have a USB-C 3.2, which clocks in at your speeds.

 

[MallardDuck]

The T9 is a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 SSD. No Current Mac comes with USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, there aren't many PCs with it either. When USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 is not present, the drive connects at USB 3.1 Gen 2 (USB 3.2) at 10 Gbps. Your options of getting more than a 10Gbps with an external device is going to be limited to TB3/4 and USB4, which will give you up to ~25-30 Gbps.

Ah, that explains it, thanks. No point spending the money on the faster drives (at least until Apple upgrades).

 

[Mike Boreham]

Ah, that explains it, thanks. No point spending the money on the faster drives (at least until Apple upgrades).

Correct, if you want faster get true TB3/TB4/USB4 drives. The impression I have is that the USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 protocol may not take off as it is superseded by TB/USB4.

 

[MallardDuck]

Correct, if you want faster get true TB3/TB4/USB4 drives. The impression I have is that the USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 protocol may not take off as it is superseded by TB/USB4.

Yeah, and those are $$. The T9 was attractive because of the price point - it was an interesting choice to release it as 3.2 2x2 vs USB4.

I wonder if the new macs this year with TB5 will support 2.2 underneath the covers.

 

[MRxROBOT]

I wonder if the new macs this year with TB5 will support 2.2 underneath the covers.

I wouldn't count on it.

Yeah, and those are $$. The T9 was attractive because of the price point - it was an interesting choice to release it as 3.2 2x2 vs USB4.

USB 4 enclosures can be had for as little as $50 now and people are achieving over 30Gbps. PCIE Gen4 drives like the WD SN850X are as little as $85 for a 1TB and $150 for 2TB, which brings the price point within ~$20 of the T9 depending on which SSD you choose.

 

[MallardDuck]

I wouldn't count on it.



USB 4 enclosures can be had for as little as $50 now and people are achieving over 30Gbps. PCIE Gen4 drives like the WD SN850X are as little as $85 for a 1TB and $150 for 2TB, which brings the price point within ~$20 of the T9 depending on which SSD you choose.

I haven't found a reliable enclosure for under $100, would love the links.

It's the 4TB models - those get pricey fast for other SSDs.

 

[MRxROBOT]

I haven't found a reliable enclosure for under $100, would love the links.

MAIWO USB4 M.2 SSD Case 40Gbps M2 NVMe Case Compatible with Thunderbolt 4/3 USB4.0 Type-C box For Macbook Laptop And iPhone 15 - AliExpress 7

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.us

It's the 4TB models - those get pricey fast for other SSDs.

https://www.amazon.com/WD_BLACK-SN850X-Internal-Gaming-Solid/dp/B0B7CQ2CHH

It's $309, which makes the whole setup about $40 more but that $40 will give you ~ 3X the performance you're seeing now.



Here's a thread with lots of good information regarding high speed enclosures and SSDs.

Thunderbolt 3 M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosures

Thunderbolt 3 / 4 / USB 4 NVMe Enclosures The best enclosures for high speed transfers (2.5GB/s+) usually have one of these 2 chipsets: Thunderbolt 3: Intel's JHL7440, e.g. Acasis TBU-401 / 405 Orico TB3-S2 USB 4: Asmedia ADM2464PD Jeyi TB-2464 Maiwo 2464 ( NewEgg / AliExpress) Satechi Pro...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[MallardDuck]

Fair point on the TCO.

Unfortunately, I don't shop that site, but on reliable ones I've found TB3 for $80, but the TB4/USB4 ones - at least the ones that are reputable - are all over $100. Not an obstacle to your point to get the performance.

And after what WD pulled with the Sandisk SSD's and the bait and switch on SMR hard drives, I don't buy anything from them anymore (but there's comparable Samsung/Crucial drives). I just have to decide how much performance I really need.

 

[MRxROBOT]

I don't shop that site, but on reliable ones...

What do you think it's not a reliable site? It's just like amazon or eBay in regards to their being tons of junk there but solid items like the enclosure I sent you are no different than what you grab here. You get a tracking number and have free returns as well. I've never had an issue there personally but it's your money at the end of the day.

You can grab the same enclosure on Amazon right now for $80. Which would make this setup around $390 or $70 more than the T9. It'll cost about 20% more but you'll get around 300% the performance you're getting now.

MAIWO 40Gbps NVME Enclosure with Fan, M.2 Enclosure for MacBook Pro/Air, Type C SSD Enclosure Compatible with Thurderbolt4.0&USB4/3.2/3.1, 8TB Storage Expansion,Tool-Free

[Support up to 8TB M.2 NVME SSD]:This M.2 NVME enclosure supports M key and B+M key M.2 NVME SSD with size 2280, ensuring compatibility with a wider range of devices,and this enclosure can support up to 8TB storage capacity expansion. [40Gbps High Speed] : The NVME reader compatible with Thurderb...

www.amazon.com

Yeah it's a shame how bad the Sandisk (WD) portable SSDs are and even worse that they didn't do anything to make customers whole. That said, I've got 14X 4TB WD Red SN700s NAS SSDs running 24/7 and they haven't missed a beat.

 

[MallardDuck]

Confused two things there, sorry. Yes, I don't shop Ali at all, and I'm honestly trying to avoid Amazon or any other place that has third-party sellers (Newegg is another one that's really bad). We had a situation where Amazon co-mingled first party and third party stock, and we ended up with several counterfeit drives (they were QA rejects that had been marked as destroyed) and it was a massive pain to get Amazon to fix it - so even 'shipped and sold by amazon' isn't reliable anymore. My go-to store for tech is Microcenter these days (no third party vendors on there), with Best Buy a second choice. I miss Fry's .

But even on Microcenter, there's a bunch of no-name offshore stuff that I just don't touch, especially if I see evidence of astroturfing the reviews. I've found that after I go through 2-3 cheap things, I end up spending the premium amount anyway, so most often just start there now.

I don't trust WD hard drives either after their SMR/CMR bait and switch. That whole company seems to have an ethics problem. Hitachi or Seagate for HD, and Inland (my budget brand), Crucial, or Samsung for SSDs these days.

For the enclosures, I'd try OWC but they're backordered until June. Tom's Hardware did a solid review of the Zikedrive enclosure, so I'm rolling the dice on it. That's where I look for SSD reviews, because sustained write performance counts for a lot of what I do - and the manufacturers do their very best to hide that figure, while Toms exposes it in their benchmarks.

Aside, and back to the original root cause here, someone needs to take the USB coalition out to the woodshed over their horrible naming scheme. Hopefully they've learned their lesson with USB 4, because 3 was a total mess.

But then again, anyone that ever thought the USB-B connector was a good idea, needs a smack upside the head.

 

[MRxROBOT]

Confused two things there, sorry. Yes, I don't shop Ali at all, and I'm honestly trying to avoid Amazon or any other place that has third-party sellers (Newegg is another one that's really bad). We had a situation where Amazon co-mingled first party and third party stock, and we ended up with several counterfeit drives (they were QA rejects that had been marked as destroyed) and it was a massive pain to get Amazon to fix it - so even 'shipped and sold by amazon' isn't reliable anymore. My go-to store for tech is Microcenter these days (no third party vendors on there), with Best Buy a second choice. I miss Fry's .

But even on Microcenter, there's a bunch of no-name offshore stuff that I just don't touch, especially if I see evidence of astroturfing the reviews. I've found that after I go through 2-3 cheap things, I end up spending the premium amount anyway, so most often just start there now.

I don't trust WD hard drives either after their SMR/CMR bait and switch. That whole company seems to have an ethics problem. Hitachi or Seagate for HD, and Inland (my budget brand), Crucial, or Samsung for SSDs these days.

For the enclosures, I'd try OWC but they're backordered until June. Tom's Hardware did a solid review of the Zikedrive enclosure, so I'm rolling the dice on it. That's where I look for SSD reviews, because sustained write performance counts for a lot of what I do - and the manufacturers do their very best to hide that figure, while Toms exposes it in their benchmarks.

Aside, and back to the original root cause here, someone needs to take the USB coalition out to the woodshed over their horrible naming scheme. Hopefully they've learned their lesson with USB 4, because 3 was a total mess.

But then again, anyone that ever thought the USB-B connector was a good idea, needs a smack upside the head.

Ok that makes sense. Yeah I grab all my drives directly from the manufacturer but I still go through third party marketplaces for the enclosures. Luckily, I haven't had any issues with enclosures. Speaking of Micro Center, we're finally getting one back in Silicon Valley and I am really looking forward to it!

 

[MallardDuck]

Ok that makes sense. Yeah I grab all my drives directly from the manufacturer but I still go through third party marketplaces for the enclosures. Luckily, I haven't had any issues with enclosures. Speaking of Micro Center, we're finally getting one back in Silicon Valley and I am really looking forward to it!

I got really paranoid about them after Apple broke the whole USB subsystem a couple of releases ago, and all of my hubs that had been working for years stopped connecting. They've never fixed it, so I try to get only top end gear (e.g. the CalDigit Element hub) and brand-name enclosures. I've had decent luck with Vantec, but even had some Sabrent and ASUS ROG ones that didn't work.