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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
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Thanks for the information. I wasn't sure about this myself – D'you think we'll see better UASP support on macOS in future? I'm in the market for an enclosure in the near future, and had been looking for something that supports UASP, but if it bears no benefit on macOS and won't there's no point in limiting my search.



I think you've misunderstood the point of TRIM. It's not that running without will cause issues or anything. It's just for optimising the speed of SSDs as they fill up. If you imagine you have a room. Throwing a box into the room can be done relatively fast, but once the room fills up, you have to start removing boxes, before you can throw in a new one. This takes slightly longer. But what if, when you remove a box from the room and don't replace it, you would still have to go in the room when you want to put another box in there, and go to the place where there previously was a box, and "remove" the already removed box to put a new one in there? You'd be wasting time. That's what TRIM avoids.
If you wipe your SSDs entirely right now, and start using them, until they're full, they'll run at a specific speed. When they then get full, you'll see a slowdown - now, it isn't a fixed slowdown and depends on the drive, but let's just say 20%. Even if you remove data from the drive, this slowdown might still be there, due to TRIM not being active, sending commands to the drive about which blocks are safe to erase entirely, after the file link has been removed.



I have no idea what you're talking about, but the drive should function perfectly fine with no software installed.



There are loads of drive testing apps. I personally use BlackMagic as another user suggested, and it's a quick download from the App Store. I can also recommend ATTO, and you can also manually calculate it, by timing a file transfer

I have not misunderstood the point of TRIM. I have not noticed any performance issues since I installed my drive. It could also be SATA 2 on my 2010 Mac Pro is masking the issue.

I think people make things EXTREMELY complicated for no reason. Get a SSD. Use it. Don't worry about it too much.
 

casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
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I think people make things EXTREMELY complicated for no reason. Get a SSD. Use it. Don't worry about it too much.

In a lot of ways I feel this subject is similar to screen calibrations. If you get a good screen, the screen is good. But you can still get it to look even better by calibrating it. It isn't necessary to do, and with screens it requires equipment so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but if you can get TRIM running, why not? I mean, there's no downside to it.
SATA II will definitely be a bottleneck before the slowdown you'll experience from filling up the drive and not TRIMMING it

Addendum - But it isn't like it'll ever really be an issue per se. You won't see ultra slow speeds or anything from not using TRIM. It just won't be as efficient as it is capable of being.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
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In a lot of ways I feel this subject is similar to screen calibrations. If you get a good screen, the screen is good. But you can still get it to look even better by calibrating it. It isn't necessary to do, and with screens it requires equipment so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but if you can get TRIM running, why not? I mean, there's no downside to it.
SATA II will definitely be a bottleneck before the slowdown you'll experience from filling up the drive and not TRIMMING it

Addendum - But it isn't like it'll ever really be an issue per se. You won't see ultra slow speeds or anything from not using TRIM. It just won't be as efficient as it is capable of being.

By the time I experience any issues, I will have upgraded the drive anyway. I don't know if it changed with Sierra, but it used to be a major pain to get TRIM on third party drives. Usually waiting for OS updates, or sometimes dealing with OS failures/disabling security features.

As I said, I have not noticed ANY issues with the drives in 3 years. These aren't big SSDs either, so I do constantly fill it up and need to move it to my 6TB storage drive to clean up the drive.
 

casperes1996

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Jan 26, 2014
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By the time I experience any issues, I will have upgraded the drive anyway. I don't know if it changed with Sierra, but it used to be a major pain to get TRIM on third party drives. Usually waiting for OS updates, or sometimes dealing with OS failures/disabling security features.


The TRIM command starts benefitting an SSD the moment it nears maximum capacity and data then gets removed. Potentially prior to that too depending on how the controller handles things.

It hasn't been a bother to get TRIM on third party drives for a while. The trimforce command Apple ships with macOS works just like the way Apple's TRIM commands work with their own SSDs.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
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The TRIM command starts benefitting an SSD the moment it nears maximum capacity and data then gets removed. Potentially prior to that too depending on how the controller handles things.

It hasn't been a bother to get TRIM on third party drives for a while. The trimforce command Apple ships with macOS works just like the way Apple's TRIM commands work with their own SSDs.

It is not necessary which is what my point was. It is not like without TRIM, they would be even HDD speeds. And like I said, my drives are small. I constantly fill them up and need to clean them up. I have not noticed any slowdowns when it reached its capacity. Although, I do not benchmark it constantly. I get the drive, and I use it. No need to over think things.
 

Weaselboy

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Jan 23, 2005
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It is not necessary which is what my point was.

I don't want to argue semantics about what necessary means, but I do believe TRIM is a good thing to have enabled for the reasons already mentioned. It is so easy to enable now there really is no reason not to enable it.

There have been many posts here over the years from people who did not use TRIM and over time saw write speeds drop quite a bit. Then they enabled TRIM and ran "fsck -fy" from single user mode to clean up the drive and speeds were restored. It is good you have not experienced this slowdown, but others have.
 

casperes1996

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Jan 26, 2014
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Horsens, Denmark
It is not necessary which is what my point was. It is not like without TRIM, they would be even HDD speeds. And like I said, my drives are small. I constantly fill them up and need to clean them up. I have not noticed any slowdowns when it reached its capacity. Although, I do not benchmark it constantly. I get the drive, and I use it. No need to over think things.


I agree with you that it isn't strictly speaking necessary, and that the speeds won't drop so much so that the drive becomes unusable or HDD slow, and you especially won't see that great a difference when you're already most likely bottlenecked by SATA II. All that said, as @Weaselboy also points out, when it's there, easy to activate, and does no harm but only optimises what you have, why not take it? For your data accesses you may feel literally no difference at all, but back before I switched to iMac, I did notice the difference for my Final Cut usage, when Apple released their official trimforce, and I finally bothered activating TRIM on my aftermarket SSD. Working with larger projects just became that bit more smooth.
Anyway, as with anything YMMV and you could have the same experience as @xWhiplash. I still recommend activating TRIM however, as it's easy, can't harm, and even if you don't notice the speedup, you're allowing the drive to more intelligently manage itself internally, potentially increasing the lifespan of the drive, since it'll be more capable of performing what is called wear-levelling. This effect should theoretically be extremely minimal, but just another good reason to have TRIM.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
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I agree with you that it isn't strictly speaking necessary, and that the speeds won't drop so much so that the drive becomes unusable or HDD slow, and you especially won't see that great a difference when you're already most likely bottlenecked by SATA II. All that said, as @Weaselboy also points out, when it's there, easy to activate, and does no harm but only optimises what you have, why not take it? For your data accesses you may feel literally no difference at all, but back before I switched to iMac, I did notice the difference for my Final Cut usage, when Apple released their official trimforce, and I finally bothered activating TRIM on my aftermarket SSD. Working with larger projects just became that bit more smooth.
Anyway, as with anything YMMV and you could have the same experience as @xWhiplash. I still recommend activating TRIM however, as it's easy, can't harm, and even if you don't notice the speedup, you're allowing the drive to more intelligently manage itself internally, potentially increasing the lifespan of the drive, since it'll be more capable of performing what is called wear-levelling. This effect should theoretically be extremely minimal, but just another good reason to have TRIM.

Oh I agree that people may experience other things than me, and it is probably due to the drive as well. I always get the highest level SSDs and not the unknowns or lesser known brands. I spend a LOT of money doing so though.

I just don't think people need to make this as complicated as they are making it. Buy a drive, and use it. If, later you do experience some issues, TRIM might help then.

I have an SSD for everything. I even put SSDs in my gaming consoles, I cannot get TRIM there. I have also seen SSDs used for even Windows 95 installs. I only have my Windows PC SSDs have TRIM. Every other system and every other drive I have not noticed any issues without TRIM.

And it did not always used to be "easy" to enable TRIM. You used to have to run TRIM enabler, disable some security settings, need to worry about turning it back ON every update, know how to deal with not being able to boot your computer, and more.

Also, the Trim enabler page does have benchmarks on TRIM vs not TRIM: https://cindori.org/trimenabler/
Losing around 40-50 MB/s
 

Starlights

macrumors regular
Jan 22, 2011
133
39
It would be interesting to test with the new Samsung T5. It is Gen 2 USB 3.1 / USB-C with UASP, but the controller also supports TRIM. The T3's controller did not.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11719/samsung-portable-ssd-t5-review-64layer-vnand-debuts-in-retail

In the US and probably elsewhere, it is now available, but I haven't seen it so far in Canada.

BTW, I have a Gen 2 USB-C 2017 iMac, but my 2017 MacBook is still Gen 1.

I am interested to know the results of this as well, especially with 2018 MBPs and T5 or Sandisk's portable SSD. Will these slow down over time or does the trim functionality work (without installing any software that comes with the SSDs) - anyone?
 
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stewacide

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2002
196
39
Any update on this issue w/ Mojave? I just ordered a Samsung T5 and it'd be nice if I didn't need to worry about slowing the drive down by using it too much.
 
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tedlabete

macrumors newbie
Dec 14, 2018
2
0
Just received my T5. can't see any way to activate TRIM over USB. Samsung told me T5 don't not handle trim, but apple told me it should...So I'm confused.
Any help would be appreciate.
 

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Basic75

macrumors 68000
May 17, 2011
1,938
2,250
Europe
Just received my T5. can't see any way to activate TRIM over USB. Samsung told me T5 don't not handle trim, but apple told me it should...So I'm confused.
Any help would be appreciate.
Any news on this subject? Did you manage to enable TRIM?
 
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