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KaraH

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 12, 2012
452
5
DC
I am speccing out my next system and it will have the system drive/applications on an external ssd (most probably one of the 480 GB models from OWC). Given the dearth of TB enclosures currently would my performance suffer with using the USB3 interface? It looks like in various tests they are similar (often with USB3 being a little faster than TB) but is there anything I am overlooking?
 
Last edited:

sjinsjca

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2008
2,238
555
USB3 will be about twice as fast as Firewire 800, in my experience.

For a drive, Thunderbolt will probably not be much faster, as the drive's internal interface will be a bottleneck.
 

KaraH

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 12, 2012
452
5
DC
Firewire is not even an option for the new machine. It does not exist on the current iMacs without using an adapter that is far from perfect.
 

Bear

macrumors G3
Jul 23, 2002
8,088
5
Sol III - Terra
I am speccing out my next system and it will have the system drive/applications on an external ssd (most probably one of the 480 GB models from OWC). Given the dearth of TB enclosures currently would my performance suffer with using the USB3 interface? It looks like in various tests they are similar (often with USB3 being a little faster than TB) but is there anything I am overlooking?
You're not overlooking anything. Go with a USB 3.0 enclosure. Make sure the enclosure comes with a power supply. An enclosure that is powered from USB may not have enough power for some SSD drives.
 

Beta Particle

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2012
527
5
Both Thunderbolt and USB3 have far more bandwidth than any external drive you can use today, so performance should not be an issue.
Firewire is a dead interface.

I would not recommend Thunderbolt because it's expensive, and you will find very few devices other than new Macs which have Thunderbolt ports.

USB3 drives will work with just about any computer, because it's backwards compatible.
 

KaraH

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 12, 2012
452
5
DC
I think you may want to update the title of your thread :p

Thanks, I wondered why firewire was even discussed.

----------

You're not overlooking anything. Go with a USB 3.0 enclosure. Make sure the enclosure comes with a power supply. An enclosure that is powered from USB may not have enough power for some SSD drives.

Hmm, OWC lists several bus powered enclosures though (which they use for their SSD drives). In addition to not having extra cables it means I can move my mac more easily.

Basically, I am looking to do something like https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1489710/ but using an enclosure like http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/YSSDMP480/ .
 

MrGimper

macrumors G3
Sep 22, 2012
8,445
11,689
Andover, UK
I run a Samsung 256GB 830 SSD in an external aluminium 2.5 bus-powered enclosure from Orico. Was only about £15 from Amazon. Runs the drive fast with no issues. The enclosure is quite classy too.

I'm not running it as a boot disk tho.
 

KaraH

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 12, 2012
452
5
DC
I run a Samsung 256GB 830 SSD in an external aluminium 2.5 bus-powered enclosure from Orico. Was only about £15 from Amazon. Runs the drive fast with no issues. The enclosure is quite classy too.

I'm not running it as a boot disk tho.

Yeah, I hate having boot as external hence why I want to be bus-powered, so I do not cause all sorts of fun by picking up my mac. I will also keep a copy of the system on an internal partition so I can use that if all else fails. Actually, back in the system 7 days I used to have copies of linux on external jaz drives (removables) so an external system drive is not *too* wild a concept. Just one I would not do if I had a choice (like an easy-to-open case with multiple free bays).

I know this system will be interesting ... already my list of things to buy from non-apple sites is longer than the list of what to get for the machine in the first place.
 

MrGimper

macrumors G3
Sep 22, 2012
8,445
11,689
Andover, UK
Yeah, I hate having boot as external hence why I want to be bus-powered, so I do not cause all sorts of fun by picking up my mac. I will also keep a copy of the system on an internal partition so I can use that if all else fails. Actually, back in the system 7 days I used to have copies of linux on external jaz drives (removables) so an external system drive is not *too* wild a concept. Just one I would not do if I had a choice (like an easy-to-open case with multiple free bays).

I know this system will be interesting ... already my list of things to buy from non-apple sites is longer than the list of what to get for the machine in the first place.

Jaz drives ... now you're talking :) I remember when 100mb Zip disks were "the new floppy"
 

KaraH

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 12, 2012
452
5
DC
Jaz drives ... now you're talking :) I remember when 100mb Zip disks were "the new floppy"

:) I kept burning the things out though ... I probably went through almost as many jaz drives as their disks that would randomly crash one day.

Thank you ADT for that warrantee.
 

AXs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2009
515
2
I run a Samsung 256GB 830 SSD in an external aluminium 2.5 bus-powered enclosure from Orico. Was only about £15 from Amazon. Runs the drive fast with no issues. The enclosure is quite classy too.

I'm not running it as a boot disk tho.

i'm very interested to know what speeds you're getting on your external sad.

Sounds to me like paying a LOT extra for very little speed gains, if any- vs a 3.0 2.5" spinning passport drive. (256GB ssd costs more than usb 3.0 2TB passport drive).

Is there even more than 20mbps gain?
 

Nuke61

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2013
325
1
Columbia, SC
i'm very interested to know what speeds you're getting on your external sad.

Sounds to me like paying a LOT extra for very little speed gains, if any- vs a 3.0 2.5" spinning passport drive. (256GB ssd costs more than usb 3.0 2TB passport drive).

Is there even more than 20mbps gain?
SSD speeds on either USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt run circles around a spinning disk. Raw transfer speed is 2 or 3 times faster, but more importantly, seek time is ~10 times faster. Because of the incredibly fast seek times, and SSD through Firewire 800 is noticeably more responsive than a spinning drive.
 

MrGimper

macrumors G3
Sep 22, 2012
8,445
11,689
Andover, UK
i'm very interested to know what speeds you're getting on your external sad.

Sounds to me like paying a LOT extra for very little speed gains, if any- vs a 3.0 2.5" spinning passport drive. (256GB ssd costs more than usb 3.0 2TB passport drive).

Is there even more than 20mbps gain?

220 write
240 read
 

aggmiami

macrumors newbie
Aug 21, 2012
10
0
I put a Samsung 830 into one of these OWC enclosures, and things ran very fast and smooth...has been powered by the USB port as well.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MEPMU3ES/

At the time of purchase, I remember reading about the advantages of the Asmedia internal controller, so just went with that one. Really never had an issue, although it is not used as a boot drive. I have it plugged into a rMBP. There are other posts out there where people have used some sort of Seagate TB connector with great speed success (as boot drive)...you should do a search on it.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
28,246
12,388
[[ Given the dearth of TB enclosures currently would my performance suffer with using the USB3 interface? ]]

No.

It will run fine -- PROVIDED that you choose the right enclosure (or USB3/SATA docking station). The speed differences will be all-but unnoticeable.

Again, choosing the right enclosure/dock is critical.

I've had excellent results with plugable.com products (no financial interest other than being a paying customer).
 

mapleleafer

macrumors regular
Nov 2, 2009
192
43
Keep in mind that, due to the lack of industry support, Thunderbolt will likely follow Firewire to the junkyard in time.
 

joe-h2o

macrumors 6502a
Jun 24, 2012
997
445
Keep in mind that, due to the lack of industry support, Thunderbolt will likely follow Firewire to the junkyard in time.

This is unlikely, given that it's Intel's bus, and they are strongly promoting it.

As soon as the controllers come down in price (and we're on gen2 already), you'll start seeing thunderbolt ports everywhere on PCs. Slow start, but it's not going anywhere.
 

Nuke61

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2013
325
1
Columbia, SC
I am getting an OWC drive. They specifically say not to use trim on their drives.
OWC drives use the Sandforce controller, which compresses and uncompresses data on the fly. While TRIM doesn't work as well with these controllers because of that compression/decompression, it still improves performance. See the following AnandTech article for more information:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6733/kingston-ssdnow-v300-review/7
Because of this, power consumption, and general performance, I went with the 840 Pro, twice.
 

KaraH

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 12, 2012
452
5
DC
OWC drives use the Sandforce controller, which compresses and uncompresses data on the fly. While TRIM doesn't work as well with these controllers because of that compression/decompression, it still improves performance. See the following AnandTech article for more information:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6733/kingston-ssdnow-v300-review/7
Because of this, power consumption, and general performance, I went with the 840 Pro, twice.

That article had a BIG proviso: using your SSD for lots of uncompressible data. A couple of encrypted password files does not meet the criteria of 'a lot'.

Who uses an SSD to store their iTunes collection anyway? Any movies I am creating would be on an HDD.

Most people have trouble with trim on owc drives but is a moot point if it is an external. They sell it in a usb/fw enclosure. Because it has a 5 year warantee I would lean towards them not telling me something that would cause problems.

In the worst case I will keep a sporadic copy of it on my internal HDD anyway. I can just refresh the HDD copy and reformat the SSD.
 

Nuke61

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2013
325
1
Columbia, SC
That article had a BIG proviso: using your SSD for lots of uncompressible data. A couple of encrypted password files does not meet the criteria of 'a lot'.

Who uses an SSD to store their iTunes collection anyway?
I do, as well as movies and pictures, and that's why I chose a Samsung 840 Pro. That was the point of showing the article... whether those are concerns are left entirely up to the individual purchaser. All SSDs are a series of trade-offs.
 

g4cube

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2003
760
13
Hasn't been mentioned yet, but you'll want to look for an enclosure that supports UAS or UASP for USB 3.0.

Not all enclosures support the protocol. INside, there likely will be an ASMedia 1053 bridgechip.

You should be able to get 300+MB/sec with a good SSD.
 
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