External Video Card?

[Mr MM]

No body said it was going to be cheap but yeah we need a solution like the never released msi gus 2

Exactly that. Currently the cheapest option is to get the 7750m (though you lose nvidia optimus) + the mlogic mlink or the owc one, or the sonnet echo express SE, they can all fit that card in there and its a mobile and clean solution, that should be around 300

However if you want more power, you can always go for the cube and go for a 670 or 660ti, that should be around 800

there is a clear power difference, but I dont know if its actually worth it

there was a review on toms

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-graphics-thunderbolt,3263-7.html

that showed a mid range gpu maintaining almost equal performance to a top of the line one.

Again why dont you just go with the cube and keep your old gpu, or just you know sell everything and go for the combo that i mentioned, if you want to keep in the nvidia camp you can go with the 640 for a clean clutter free solution

as a plus you should have better power than the 650m and the 8870m

And im in the camp of those who are waiting for a more interesting solution in terms of bandwidth, thunderbolt 2.0 should be released in the next year or so, hopefully with broadwell, so I can hook up my would be rmbp 13 with something good that can enjoy the bandwidth.

Nando knows much more about thunderbolt than I do. So you can ask him when thunderbolt 2.0 is coming.

 

[nando4]

Nando knows much more about thunderbolt than I do. So you can ask him when thunderbolt 2.0 is coming.

Rumor has it 20Gbps Thunderbolt will be released in 2014. Now Intel have already given us pci-e 3.0 root port in the Series-7 chipset available now used to host Ivy Bridge cpus.

If they upspecced the Thunderbolt controller to be able to handle pci-e 3.0 traffic then we could have 16Gbps Thunderbolt with the release of Haswell in June 2013. Haswell will have a native Thunderbolt controller.

 

[Mr MM]

Rumor has it 20Gbps Thunderbolt will be released in 2014. Now Intel have already given us pci-e 3.0 root port in the Series-7 chipset available now used to host Ivy Bridge cpus.

If they upspecced the Thunderbolt controller to be able to handle pci-e 3.0 traffic then we could have 16Gbps Thunderbolt with the release of Haswell in June 2013. Haswell will have a native Thunderbolt controller.

thats great news! exactly when i was hoping to get a new machine.

one thing that i never understood is why intel doesnt dedicate more pcie lanes to the mobile chipsets or even go for 3.0

if one lane of pcie 2.0 is 500MB/s, then what we have now is sufficient for 5GB/s (the traffic of one lane), which is 2/3 of pcie 2.0 x16 being that 8GB/s. If we go for broke with thunderbolt 2.0 we are going to need much more than that.

if I remember right, apple puts only x4 lanes of pcie 2.0 available for thunderbolt, while that makes sense on the mbp 15, it doesnt on the 13, with x2 lanes used for internal things, we have still x2 lanes left idle. maybe it doesnt like such an asymmetric thing, maybe only multiples of 4 are accepted due to the each direction idea or some other thing

I think the main problem here is the amount of pcie lanes available for the pch on mobile cpus, is way too little. for example the QM77 only has x8 lanes of pcie 2.0, while the cpu itself supports for 1 x16 or 2 x8 lanes of pcie 3.0! Still when that is equipped with thunderbolt its only available with 1 x8 lanes and 1x4 + the 1 x4 of the thunderbolt, and guess what all of those are pcie 3.0 lanes

 

[d4m1r]

Slight bump....I recently triple booted my MBP (Windows 7, linux, and OS X of course) using reFIT, so I am wondering if that would have any affect on using an external video card under Windows?

If I am booting into OS X or linux, I would just plug my external monitor into the thunderbolt port (thunderbolt to DVI adapter), but if I am booting into Windows, I would be doing so to play games hence the need for the external video card. Then my external monitor would be plugged into the external video card (DVI slot ideally) and that would be connected to my MBP via the thunderbolt port. Now, would my modified boot/partitioning/EFI stuff affect the external video card in anyway?

 

[Zeov]

Theres no thunderbolt ViDock yet.

What you have to do is get the sonnet echo pro (thunderbolt -> Express card adapter) and install the ViDock through the Express card slot in that..

Heres a picture of the Mac Mini benchmarked with thunderbolt and 660 TI.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/733946_10151330422794135_699414124_n.png

But it doesn't seem like a "perfect" solution, and that's exactly why i havent bought it yet.. so i'm still waiting for a solution that doesn't require endless software and tweaking.

Have you thought about cloud gaming like OnLive or the new stuff Nvidia is working on?

Any other eGPU solution (other than doing it yourself).. is gonna cost you a hell of a lot of money.


You talk about the thunderbolt is going to be used for the eGPU.. but you forget the fact that you use your video cards' outputs to hook up a display so don't worry about external displays..

Thunderbolt -> eGPU -> hook up your display to the GTX 260.

 

[d4m1r]

Opps, forgot about that...Other options I've look at out there do use the thunderbolt port though and not an PCI express adapter. My question remains, if I went the ViDock route, my own DIY solution, or any other possible options, would my external video card be affected at all due to my modified boot/parition/EFI stuff?

I don't see how they would because ideally I'd only need to install drivers under my Windows 7 partition so Windows 7 could offload graphics processing to the external video card but I wouldn't be surprised...My MBP is now far from a stock unit.

@OnLive and similar services, those are still not ideal solutions to date nor is internet where I'm going stable enough to support such a service.

 

[AppleMacFinder]

If you would like this external discrete GPU to be faster than GPU inside Macbook Pro,
then forget about adapters! (and viDock, until and if they release a Thunderbolt version)

viDock was enough, ExpressCard was the fastest interface available for this purpose,
and GPUs were not as powerful and bandwidth hungry as they are nowadays.
But that is in the past, now only Thunderbolt -> Thunderbolt connection will do!

 

[d4m1r]

viDock was enough, ExpressCard was the fastest interface available for this purpose,
and GPUs were not as powerful and bandwidth hungry as they are nowadays.
But that is in the past, now only Thunderbolt -> Thunderbolt connection will do!

Ok, so what is your recommendation for a thunderbolt eGPU solution? It doesn't seem there is any one common/popular solution to the situation I find myself in currently.

 

[AppleMacFinder]

My recommendation was TH05, until it was discontinued because of a minor problem.
That is sad: it was an excellent and very affordable solution (compared to overpriced alternatives)
Now I am waiting for TH04 - an updated version of TH05 - it is going to come out later this year.

 

[thekev]

Rumor has it 20Gbps Thunderbolt will be released in 2014. Now Intel have already given us pci-e 3.0 root port in the Series-7 chipset available now used to host Ivy Bridge cpus.

If they upspecced the Thunderbolt controller to be able to handle pci-e 3.0 traffic then we could have 16Gbps Thunderbolt with the release of Haswell in June 2013. Haswell will have a native Thunderbolt controller.

You would still need hot pluggable drivers and certain other criteria that intel requires for certification, and of course aftermarket gpus aren't always readily available for Macs. EVGA and Sapphire have released a couple recently for the mac pro, but that is likely due to the current default options being stuck 2 generations back on gpus. AMD and NVidia are using the same basic architecture with adjustments for 2013, so these companies can probably get by with an extended cycle on the 680 and 7950 mac editions.

As small of a market as the mac pro represents, it has after market options where none have surfaced thus far for thunderbolt, likely due to limited bandwidth and greater development hurdles. When they boost the bandwidth, I would still give it at least a year after that. This means potential buyers would include those with notebook graphics that are a generation old, where leveraging a desktop gpu in its own case would provide a greater boost.

 

[d4m1r]

Slight update....I am now actively looking to build me an eGPU I am specifically looking at a EVGA GTX460 + a PSU with enough juice to power just the video card (400-500w).

Anyway, the question I forgot to ask was, what about my OS? My MBP is triple booted using reFIT (linux + Windows 7 + OS X). Will that make any difference? Will I be able to use my eGPU setup and 1 or 2 monitors under all 3 OS'? I ask because the ViDock has a crazy process you need to do before you boot into Windows in order to get it to recognize and use the external video card....

 

[Mr MM]

dont freaking use the vidock, I think I said this over 5 times already

ask nando at tech inferno about the triple booting, usually with non bplus implementation you dont need to do anything drastic like assigning space or something

I do hope that your windows partition is a EFI partition

 

[d4m1r]

I do hope that your windows partition is a EFI partition

No it is not, is that a big deal? Installed Windows 7 as MBR to play nice with linux...

 

[Mr MM]

No it is not, is that a big deal? Installed Windows 7 as MBR to play nice with linux...

its not the best practice, specially given that you are emulating a bios

I install linux on EFI, no problems at all for me

 

[d4m1r]

its not the best practice, specially given that you are emulating a bios

I install linux on EFI, no problems at all for me

I did not see any cons about installing linux/Windows 7 as MBR vs EFI so I did both as MBR and it ended being just a little easier....As for how that would effect my eGPU solution, I don't see how boot type would play any role in that...

Care to explain?

 

[Mr MM]

I did not see any cons about installing linux/Windows 7 as MBR vs EFI so I did both as MBR and it ended being just a little easier....As for how that would effect my eGPU solution, I don't see how boot type would play any role in that...

Care to explain?

simple, it needs to load some files while booting, emulated bios dont allow that.

Its actually easy to install linux via EFI, just plug the USB thumb drive with the installs and do it.

win 7, when it loads the install and it asks wont let you install because of the different EFI settings, just erase the EFI partition in the installer and do it

 

[d4m1r]

simple, it needs to load some files while booting, emulated bios dont allow that.

Damit....Did not know that. So is it impossible to due an eGPU if I installed Windows 7 as MBR? Meaning I should reinstall it.

Just registered at techinferno as well..

 

[Mr MM]

Damit....Did not know that. So is it impossible to due an eGPU if I installed Windows 7 as MBR? Meaning I should reinstall it.

Just registered at techinferno as well..

in there they have people that done it, better ask there for more precise answers

 

[d4m1r]

Will do. And just for arguments sake, what do you have against the ViDock?

It may actually be the cheaper and more user-friendly solution....Only would cost me $279 for their most expensive one which includes a PSU + $170 for the Sonnet express card adapter. I also get corporate support for it through the company that made the product.

The DIY way, I have to get a PSU ($50-70 for a good one), figured out what I should replace a TH05 with or purchase one for like $400, build the thing myself, and still no guarantee it will all work....TH05 sounds like it would have made the DIY way cheaper, but since they've been discontinued, they are impossible to find new and are very expensive used. If I did ultimately go the DIY way, recommendations on the best adapter kit that would give me almost what the TH05 would at a reasonable price?

 

[Mr MM]

Will do. And just for arguments sake, what do you have against the ViDock?

It may actually be the cheaper and more user-friendly solution....Only would cost me $279 for their most expensive one which includes a PSU + $170 for the Sonnet express card adapter. I also get corporate support for it through the company that made the product.

The DIY way, I have to get a PSU ($50-70 for a good one), figured out what I should replace a TH05 with or purchase one for like $400, build the thing myself, and still no guarantee it will all work....TH05 sounds like it would have made the DIY way cheaper, but since they've been discontinued, they are impossible to find new and are very expensive used. If I did ultimately go the DIY way, recommendations on the best adapter kit that would give me almost what the TH05 would at a reasonable price?

TH05 isnt sold anymore and it was a pos to get it to work. and there are no diy solutions anymore

you are also adding another bottleneck (expresscard runs at pcie 2.0 1.2 with optimus compression, without its 1.0 [basically its got 500MB/s of transfer rate, abysmal]) for the already bottlenecked gpu (TB will work at pcie 2.0 x4), not to mention you are adding another interface in the mix, more latency

in the end, I would just get a 650 with the mlogic mlink and would offer more performance than the 460, with a hassle free installation, not mention its cheap, it can be found for 300, and the 650 can be found for 130 so 430, i.e. cheaper and less clumsy, it can also work on the same priced sonnet echo express se and the owc helios. and I know Im missing one here

I think I explained this 4x times already

 

[d4m1r]

In the end, I would just get a 650 with the mlogic mlink and would offer more performance than the 460, with a hassle free installation, not mention its cheap, it can be found for 300, and the 650 can be found for 130 so 430, i.e. cheaper and less clumsy, it can also work on the same priced sonnet echo express se and the owc helios. and I know Im missing one here

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks! Now, between those 3 units, would you recommend one over the other? The OWC unit is $50 cheaper too at $350. 650 looks like a good recommendation as well, however it requires 400w apparently and while all of those solutions come with built in AC adapters, I doubt they are able to provide 400w over 2 x 6 pin connectors (correct me if I am wrong)

 

[Mr MM]

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks! Now, between those 3 units, would you recommend one over the other? The OWC unit is $50 cheaper too at $350. 650 looks like a good recommendation as well, however it requires 400w apparently and while all of those solutions come with built in AC adapters, I doubt they are able to provide 400w over 2 x 6 pin connectors (correct me if I am wrong)

they dont have the necessary pin out for that, they only feed via pcie. which is enough for the 650

the ones that have the pin outs are the magma 3t express (800) and the CUBE (600)

just search and you will find them for less than that, all of them are actually around the same price, i.e. 300

I dont have any recommendation which one over the other

 

[d4m1r]

they dont have the necessary pin out for that, they only feed via pcie. which is enough for the 650

Interesting....I didn't know that. I figured if it didn't have the 1 x 6pin power insert, it wouldn't even have enough juice to boot up. But actually after looking at the specs of the GTX650, it actually has a pretty low power requirement....Maximum Graphics Card Power of 64w.

So you think that the OWC model for example could deliver that just through PCI-E and I would be good to go? Sounds almost too easy

Thanks for the replies thus far by the way....

 

[Mr MM]

yes pcie provides 75w of power and given the pcu on those machines you can guess that they are indeed enough for that task

I remember I saw in provantage a long time ago all those 3 for around 330

 

[d4m1r]

As an update, thanks to the great work of Nando with his eGPU software, I was able to put together an eGPU setup soon after this thread

It is comprised of a 550w Corsair PSU, Sonnet Expresscard to Lightning Bolt adapter, and an Nvidia 650 Ti. I've been happily gaming on my MBP pro for over a year now, including a lot of new titles (DX11, 1920x1080)