EyeTV->AppleTV HD

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by P-Worm, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. P-Worm macrumors 68020

    P-Worm

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    #1
    This process has been driving me nuts, so I thought that I would share what I have so far and ask for some advice from anyone that has gotten this to work.

    One of the main problems with the AppleTV is that in order to play 720p content it needs to be 24fps or less. This creates a real headache if you are recording over the air broadcasts (using EyeTV) from channels such as ABC or FOX. These networks broadcast 720p at 59.96fps instead of 1080i at 29.97fps.

    Note that I am only trying to get 720p at 24fps out of shows that were originally shot at 24fps such as Lost

    Getting a 720p file that plays in the AppleTV is relatively straight forward for 1080i content. Simply export an MPEG Program Stream file from EyeTV, bring it into HandBrake, use an AppleTV preset and then modify the Picture Settings to be 1280x720 resolution and check the "Detelicine" button. After a long rendering process you should be good to go.

    Getting a 720p file that will play in the AppleTV from 720p @ 59.96fps, however, has been a real chore. I've tried running the MPEG Program Stream through, Compressor 3 (Seriously, could this program be much more unreliable than it is now?), Visual Hub, JES Deinterlacer (thought this would do it by running a detelecining process and having it constantly check for cadence breaks that come from editing out commercials. But alas, it 'hangs' somewhere in the file and just quits.), MPEG Streamclip, and Handbrake. Everything gives me a file that plays in an AppleTV, but has very jerky motion.

    Has anyone found out a way to get an EyeTV show to play on their AppleTV while still preserving the resolution? I hate dropping the resolution down to 540p just to preserve an unneeded framerate.

    P-Worm
     
  2. TraceyS/FL macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    #2
    I haven't tried that - the only HD stuff i recorded was the olympics, right now i'm recording low quality stuff :D

    Have you asked at the Elgato forums? it can be hit and miss on getting help, but in case you hadn't thought of it - i thought i'd point them out.

    SOunds like a PITA though, maybe i'm NOT ready to be done recording school classes and using my 2 EyeTV's for "real" content! LOL!!
     
  3. P-Worm thread starter macrumors 68020

    P-Worm

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    #3
    The olympics was most likely not shot at 24fps anyway, so you wouldn't be able to detelecine the footage.

    Elgato's official stance, even on their forums, has been "Just export for AppleTV from EyeTV." While that process works flawlessly, it makes the resolution 960x540 to preserve the framerate.

    If you don't care about losing resolution, go ahead and export from the EyeTV software. It works, but you lose some quality in doing so.

    P-Worm
     
  4. bohbot16 macrumors 6502a

    bohbot16

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    #4
    I've been dealing with the same issue. I think the process that the broadcaster uses to convert the 23.976 fps source to 59.96 fps is difficult to reverse automatically. The versions of these shows that are sold through iTunes are generated using the original source material.

    The real issue, though, may be bitrate. The way that you (and I) encode the 24fps file may not be optimizing the fast motion scenes for the peak bitrate that the AppleTV can handle. It looks like the Handbrake developers are trying to add some of this intelligence into their next release, but for now we're left tweaking various parameters on our own.
     
  5. kolax macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    #5
    Always wondered if Lost, when actually shown in HD on a broadcast for TV, is fluent playback? Compared to, say from "other sources", the 720p playback isn't silky smooth. Same with any TV shows I've encoded from EyeTV. The source is fluent, yet the encoded file isn't. It isn't stuttery by any means, but it isn't silky smooth like the source.

    Why is this? Is it the frame rate being altered?
     
  6. bohbot16 macrumors 6502a

    bohbot16

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    Mar 22, 2009
    #6
    The broadcast is smooth. So is the version from the iTunes store.
     
  7. kolax macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    #7
    Why are the likes of Lost from "other sources" not smooth? I know they are compressed, but why does it not retain smooth playback?

    Same applies to the TV recordings I make and then export. In the UK, I assumed it was because the source was interlaced and was being converted to progressive?
     
  8. bohbot16 macrumors 6502a

    bohbot16

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    #8
    I've been playing with various bitrate optimizations over the past few days, trying to get something that more closely matches the files sold on iTunes. At this point, I've convinced myself that converting a 60fps source to 24fps won't work for the AppleTV. You can definitely get smooth motion by converting the file to 540p @ 30fps.
    For those of you in PAL land, it may work if you convert a 720p video @ 50fps to 720p @ 25fps, since this seems to be within the AppleTV's capabilities.
     
  9. ibglowin macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    #9
    My response from Elgato (last year)

    I entered a support ticket for just this thing, complaining about the EyeTV export not being HD anymore and this was Elgato's response:

    "Thank you for contacting Elgato Systems.

    You are correct that the AppleTV export preset is not HD. The preset specs were established before the AppleTV2 software, and at the time, it was decided that the 960p30 looked better than the (I think it was) 720p24, which was the highest resolution supported in that version.

    Currently, if you want to do a full-resolution, or HD export from EyeTV, you need to use a manual H.264 export. Right click on the recording, then choose "Export..." from the contexual menu. Then choose Format > H.264, and click on options. Then, set the export settings appropriately. According to the AppleTV specs page, the H.264 settings are the following:

    H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): Up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats"

    I tried this several times but each time it seemed like something crashed in the export. I was using an old G5 and it looked like it was going to take a Looonnnggg time to finsish so I basically gave up and started getting my files from "other" places as they say.

    I still have almost every episode of LOST in HD in EyeTV format hoping one day that Elgato will get their act together and make a simple export out of the EyeTV software that will keep my HD recordings HD but make them in :apple:TV format with 5.1 audio passthrough.

    Hey, I can dream right............... :cool:
     
  10. kolax macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    #10
    They use the QuickTime framework for exporting. So maybe Snow Leopard + QuickTime X might get you your wish ;)
     
  11. rspeaker macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    #11
    Could you export the show(s) to Toast, save it as a disk image, and then run the image through HB? Don't know if it'll preserve framerates and all, just thinking out loud.
     
  12. dynaflash macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    #12
    HB can read the native .eyetv file . no need to export unless you want to modify it first.
     
  13. bohbot16 macrumors 6502a

    bohbot16

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    #13
    dynaflash,
    Have you converted 720p60 files for the AppleTV? If so, do you output them as 540p30?
     
  14. dynaflash macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    #14
    yep.
     
  15. GreatDrok macrumors 6502a

    GreatDrok

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Location:
    New Zealand
    #15
    Interesting that you are having these problems. I've been recording stuff off HD here in NZ from both 720p/50Hz and 1080i/50Hz broadcasts. I've just used EyeTV 3 to record the show and schedule it to convert it to AppleTV and dump it into iTunes. The results have always been 1280x720 at 25fps regardless of the input and they play fine on my ATV2 and are marked as HD.
     
  16. bohbot16 macrumors 6502a

    bohbot16

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    #16
    The AppleTV can handle 720p up to 25fps. Yours is working because you are cutting the framerate in half. In the US (and I'm guessing any ATSC country) 720p broadcasts at 60fps. If the AppleTV could handle 720p @ 30fps, I don't think this would be an issue.
     
  17. eddyg macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    #17
    It does work fine in PAL land for 50fps->25fps - I do this many times a day automatically with the following script EyeTV RecordingDone.scpt, latest version available from here:

    http://www.myreflection.org/Reflection/Blog/Entries/2009/3/9_Fixed_EyeTV_HB_export_TextEdit_bug.html

    Going from 60fps to 24fps is a lot harder since it isn't a multiple.

    Cheers, Ed.
     
  18. ecoons macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    #18
    Same sort of topic

    Say you AREN'T worried about it playing back on the AppleTV, you just want a smaller file (HD broadcasts) than the bloated EyeTV files. What do people use to compress those? I have tried some of the H.264 settings from EyeTV, and with mixed success. I also tried it straight from Handbrake and that didn't work either.

    Are you guys doing Mpeg Streamclip from EyeTV, and THEN converting AGAIN in handbrake?

    Thanks!
     
  19. eddyg macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    #19
    I use HandBrake direct from the EyeTV mpg file, no issues at all.

    If using the HandBrake Mac GUI just point it at the .eyetv package and it will locate the .mpg within it for you.

    Once you've got that working come back and discuss settings. But in summary, you're best off using an MP4 or MKV container with video compressed using H.264 and audio as DTS or AC3 (assuming you have DTS or AC3 in your HD content).

    The settings for H.264 are debatable, it's a compromise between compression vs ability to fast forward/rewind (ignoring file size for now).

    The more B frames you throw at it, the better the compression (up to a point) however it doesn't rewind/fast forward very well.

    Which brings us back to the ATV preset, which is a reasonable compromise, just turn on CABAC and you should be good to go.

    Cheers, Ed.
     
  20. ecoons macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    #20
    The types of files I am getting from EyeTV (that are HD) are usually one of two:

    Lost, Fringe and Scrubs = 720p60 (ABC and FOX)
    The Office and The Big Bang Theory = 1080i30 (NBC and ...CBS?)

    The 720p stuff is about 110 MB/min
    The 1080i stuff is about 130 MB/min (depending)

    But I want to get this down file size wise because it is a little unreasonable to have 4-5 gig episodes :\. I want them to be about 20MB/min or so (1gig/epi).

    BUT I have noticed handbrake and EyeTV want to export the 720p60 down to 960x540 and I don't know that I WANT that. Since I don't have an AppleTV, I don't necessarily NEED to make my files work on it, but I DO want more compressed video with jitteriness. So, what's the settings? :p I will experiment more this weekend when I have time.

    Thanks.
     
  21. ftaok macrumors 601

    ftaok

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    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #21
    Have you tried MPEGStreamclip? Maybe there's more options on MSC that could be useful for you.
     
  22. ecoons macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    #22
    So I tried Handbrake straight from an EyeTV file, and I noticed 2 things.

    1. I compacted the file using EyeTV, to take out the commercials, but when I went to convert it, it was still showing 1:03:xx instead of 43:xx. I tried accessing the mpg file inside but I couldn't get to it through handbrake. That's why I was wondering if you have to Export using MPEG Program Stream or something FIRST and THEN convert with handbrake.

    The results: it didn't work. Sound was off and there was terrible stuff going on with the video since it was just black for long periods of time (where there would be commercials I think)

    ftaok: What can MPEGStreamclip do that handbrake can't? Or how do you use it with HD TV recordings?
     
  23. ftaok macrumors 601

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #23
    I'm not really sure what the latest Handbrake can/can't do, since I'm still on Tiger. The version of Handbrake that I'm using only converts DVDs.

    MPEGStreamClip can work with many file types and convert it to just about anything you want. I was thinking that there may be more options on MSC than Handbrake. Alas, I just realized something. MPEGStreamclip doesn't work with MPEG-2 files unless you have the $20 Apple QT plug-in, so it may not work with what you want to do anyways.

    ft
     
  24. Cave Man macrumors 604

    Cave Man

    #24
    Perhaps this is a limitation of 0.9.3. I can open Eye TV files just fine with a recent SVN of HB. Hopefully dynaflash or eddyg will chime in here.
     
  25. eddyg macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    #25
    probably a side effect of removing the ads. Try it on a test sample from eyetv without removing the ads first. Note that unreleased versions of HB are better at this than 0.9.3 - however it should still work.
     

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