f.lux is a medical NECESSITY...Why won't Apple approve?

[dontpannic]

...says the blind man.

Well thanks, appreciated.

If you would tell your doctor about f.lux, do you think he would say "that's not going to help"?

No, of course not. However in the UK there have been no studies which shows it helps, so yes, he probably would!

If you're having problems driving due to being very near sighted, do you think your doctor would tell you to stop driving?

It depends whether glasses were an option. What does this have to do with flux?

I've got a very cheap LCD-TV and I still have the possibility to change the colours, hue, temperature and so on. I assume it's not an uncommon setting, why don't you check your TV(s) and see if you've got them as well?

Your cheap LCD has an automatic screen tint when the sun goes down? Tweaking colours isn't the same.

I've also got f.lux installed on the computer I use during the evenings.

Good - so do I.

I absolutely love how this makes people so aggressive, it's like the possibility of having f.lux implemented as an option is a personal insult to them.

I use it myself, on my jailbroken iPad. It's nice, but not something that is required to be built in to the operating system. It's not an accessibility option, being affected by blue light is not a disability. At the end of the day, the paper from Harvard university says the following:

What you can do

Use dim red lights for night lights. Red light has the least power to shift circadian rhythm and suppress melatonin.

Avoid looking at bright screens beginning two to three hours before bed.

If you work a night shift or use a lot of electronic devices at night, consider wearing blue-blocking glasses.

Expose yourself to lots of bright light during the day, which will boost your ability to sleep at night, as well as your mood and alertness during daylight.

See flux mentioned there? No. That's because it isn't just iPhones and iPads which cause this problem. Using energy saving lightbulbs at home? They contribute! Your TV contributes too. For those genuinely suffering as a result of this condition then a pair of blue-blocking glasses/lenses are required, not a free app/setting on a single device.

Very simple:

I (and I guess others people) get VERY upset when someone's CONSTANTLY ranting on and on about how I NEED product X. How it's idiotic NOT to have product X. That I'm an idiot for not realizing that product X is THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD etc.

So, be happy about your product but for the love of everything that's good in the world: Stop trying to convert people!

This.

 

[Menneisyys2]

See flux mentioned there? No. That's because it isn't just iPhones and iPads which cause this problem. Using energy saving lightbulbs at home? They contribute! Your TV contributes too. For those genuinely suffering as a result of this condition then a pair of blue-blocking glasses/lenses are required, not a free app/setting on a single device.

As I've previously pointed out, LCD screens emit disproportionatelu more amounts of blue light than, say, a non-cold white energy saving bulb, assuming the same brightness level. Their light spectrum has a huge peak in the blue spectrum.

"Warm" energy saving bulbs (and LED bulbs) do NOT have a similar peak in there as it's suppressed by yellow, except for some Philips LED bulbs, built-in filters (with LEDs) or phospor layers emitting mostly in the lower-bandwidth area.

Unfortunately, while you can purchase "warm" bulbs, you can't do the same with iPad screens. All iPad screens are "cold" and emit a lot of blue light. You can't walk in the shop and ask for a "warm" iPad because there isn't any - unlike with bulbs.

This is the major problem with your argument.

 

[hafr]

No, of course not. However in the UK there have been no studies which shows it helps, so yes, he probably would!

Are you really sure you want to claim British doctors only believe things found in British studies? Think about it for a second.

It depends whether glasses were an option. What does this have to do with flux?

The point is "don't do it" is a ridiculous answer in case there is a simple solution that lets you keep doing it without the risk of adverse effects.

Your cheap LCD has an automatic screen tint when the sun goes down? Tweaking colours isn't the same.

No, but I wish it did. At the moment, I need to manually hit Menu, colour temperature and choose between "cool", "medium", "warm" or "user" depending on time of day and preference.

Except for there not being a timer function, it is the EXACT same thing as f.lux.

I use it myself, on my jailbroken iPad. It's nice, but not something that is required to be built in to the operating system. It's not an accessibility option, being affected by blue light is not a disability.

Every person on the planet is adversely affected by the blue light during evenings and nights, you use it yourself on devices you need to jailbreak first, but you're against it being included as a stock option in the OS because you think no one is affected enough for it to be called a disability?

At the end of the day, the paper from Harvard university says the following:

See flux mentioned there? No. That's because it isn't just iPhones and iPads which cause this problem. Using energy saving lightbulbs at home? They contribute! Your TV contributes too. For those genuinely suffering as a result of this condition then a pair of blue-blocking glasses/lenses are required, not a free app/setting on a single device.

You really, really don't get it though. The unique thing with these mobile devices is you keep them very close to your eyes, and people use them up until the second they close their eyes to go to sleep.

It's ironic to the max that you started your previous point with "you're missing the point".

 

[C DM]

Very simple:

I (and I guess others people) get VERY upset when someone's CONSTANTLY ranting on and on about how I NEED product X. How it's idiotic NOT to have product X. That I'm an idiot for not realizing that product X is THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD etc.

So, be happy about your product but for the love of everything that's good in the world: Stop trying to convert people!

How would having an extra accessibility option trying to covert anyone? Are most people in need of inverting colors? Yet the option is there for a long time now. Why aren't people upset about it being there when they don't care about it or need it?

 

[hafr]

How would having an extra accessibility option trying to covert anyone? Are most people in need of inverting colors? Yet the option is there for a long time now. Why aren't people upset about it being there when they don't care about it or need it?

Because "The Grey Mass" is so afraid of change they're automatically against anything they don't think benefits them, and they don't even realise how inconsistent their arguments are.

I mean, just look at the guy I'm talking to. He even uses f.lux on his computer and his iPad - yet he can't manage to say anything other than "don't add it as an option". Where's the logic in that?

 

[dontpannic]

Every person on the planet is adversely affected by the blue light during evenings and nights

Really? So you're telling me that before the year, lets say 2000, everyone got 8 hours sleep without fail and that is not possible these days because LCD colour temperatures are wrong?

If what you said has been confirmed by the medical profession (you are saying that blue light affects everyones sleep, be it a small amount or a large amount) can you then explain the snippets I've provided here?

SOURCE: Science Daily
Aug. 27, 2012 — A new study from the Lighting Research Center (LRC) at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute shows that a two-hour exposure to electronic devices with self-luminous "backlit" displays causes melatonin suppression, which might lead to delayed bedtimes, especially in teens.

"Our study shows that a two-hour exposure to light from self-luminous electronic displays can suppress melatonin by about 22 percent. Stimulating the human circadian system to this level may affect sleep in those using the devices prior to bedtime," said Figueiro.

"Based on these results, display manufacturers can use our model to determine how their products could affect circadian system regulation," said Figueiro.


Exposure to light at night, especially short-wavelength light, can slow or even cease nocturnal melatonin production. Suppression of melatonin by light at night resulting in circadian disruption has been implicated in sleep disturbances, increased risk for diabetes and obesity, as well as increased risk for more serious diseases, such as breast cancer, if circadian disruption occurs for many consecutive years, such as in nightshift workers.

"Technology developments have led to bigger and brighter televisions, computer screens, and cell phones," said Wood, who used the study as the basis for her master's thesis. "To produce white light, these electronic devices must emit light at short wavelengths, which makes them potential sources for suppressing or delaying the onset of melatonin in the evening, reducing sleep duration and disrupting sleep. This is particularly worrisome in populations such as young adults and adolescents, who already tend to be night owls."

"We recommended dimming these devices at night as much as possible in order to minimize melatonin suppression, and limiting the amount of time spent using these devices prior to bedtime."

Interestingly, out of the three control groups (one using the device normally, one using the device through blue tinted glasses, and one using the device through orange tinted glasses) the differences between the two control groups wearing orange glasses and no glasses produced a smaller effect on melatonin levels than the control group wearing blue tinted glasses.

It's not a case of "if you use an iPad before bed the blue light will stop all melatonin production and mean you can't sleep". There's much more to it than that.

If you want to compare this to other accessibility options - white on black, large text, voiceover - these help users to use the device with certain eye and ear disabilities. Flux as an accessibility option only makes the device more accessible right before bed to those affected - something which the medical profession advise against as a matter of course anyway.

 

[C DM]

Why after all the pages are we back to arguing about the "medical" or even the full "necessity" part of it just rehashing the same things from the previous pages for the nth time now? Seems like we've already moved in from those aspects of it all by now.

 

[hafr]

Really? So you're telling me that before the year, lets say 2000, everyone got 8 hours sleep without fail and that is not possible these days because LCD colour temperatures are wrong?

I have no idea how on earth you could make that from what I said, but considering your other posts I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

So...

"No."

 

[ChrisCGN]

There's a new option in the iOS 7.1 beta3 to 'Reduce White Point' in the settings.

Maybe that option will work the same way f.lux does...let's wait and see...

 

[rtomyj]

How would having an extra accessibility option trying to covert anyone? Are most people in need of inverting colors? Yet the option is there for a long time now. Why aren't people upset about it being there when they don't care about it or need it?

But f.lux isn't inverting colors. I'm no expert on it but it seems that it changes the rays of light to more warm tones according to location, and time. That is hard. They could partner with the guys who made it, but what if they don't want to get in bed with Apple? What if Apple doesn't have time for this right now? What if Apple is already working on it?

I agree that the more accessibility the better. But blaming a company and saying something has to be done because it's a necessity is rather subject. The obvious solution would be to not use the phone before bed. Or petition Apple. The way the OP went about it is wrong. It's <in a way> like going to mcdonalds every day, not exercising, getting fat and blaming it on mcdonalds. Id say it's the persons fault for going again and agian knowing the health risks. Vote with your wallets not with rants.

If I don't know how to swim I'm not going swimming. If I can't go to sleep after using my phone then I'm not gonna use it.

 

[C DM]

But f.lux isn't inverting colors. I'm no expert on it but it seems that it changes the rays of light to more warm tones according to location, and time. That is hard. They could partner with the guys who made it, but what if they don't want to get in bed with Apple? What if Apple doesn't have time for this right now? What if Apple is already working on it?

I agree that the more accessibility the better. But blaming a company and saying something has to be done because it's a necessity is rather subject. The obvious solution would be to not use the phone before bed. Or petition Apple. The way the OP went about it is wrong. It's <in a way> like going to mcdonalds every day, not exercising, getting fat and blaming it on mcdonalds. Id say it's the persons fault for going again and agian knowing the health risks. Vote with your wallets not with rants.

If I don't know how to swim I'm not going swimming. If I can't go to sleep after using my phone then I'm not gonna use it.

And it would seem fairly natural that part of that can be discussing this kind of thing on a forum dedicated to Apple discussions, right?

 

[hafr]

But f.lux isn't inverting colors. I'm no expert on it but it seems that it changes the rays of light to more warm tones according to location, and time. That is hard. They could partner with the guys who made it, but what if they don't want to get in bed with Apple? What if Apple doesn't have time for this right now? What if Apple is already working on it?

I agree that the more accessibility the better. But blaming a company and saying something has to be done because it's a necessity is rather subject. The obvious solution would be to not use the phone before bed. Or petition Apple. The way the OP went about it is wrong. It's <in a way> like going to mcdonalds every day, not exercising, getting fat and blaming it on mcdonalds. Id say it's the persons fault for going again and agian knowing the health risks. Vote with your wallets not with rants.

If I don't know how to swim I'm not going swimming. If I can't go to sleep after using my phone then I'm not gonna use it.

Oh, the "avoid it" argument again. So fresh.

Many of us are quite different from you, and would instead learn how to swim or get floating devices to help us stay afloat in the water if we couldn't swim.

But if you're completely honest, don't you ever do something you know is bad for you? Drink, smoke, eat processed food, use a bit too much salt, exercise a bit less than you should, stay up late when you need to get up early..? I'd say extremely few people avoid everything they know to have a negative impact on them.

 

[rtomyj]

Oh, the "avoid it" argument again. So fresh.

Many of us are quite different from you, and would instead learn how to swim or get floating devices to help us stay afloat in the water if we couldn't swim.

But if you're completely honest, don't you ever do something you know is bad for you? Drink, smoke, eat processed food, use a bit too much salt, exercise a bit less than you should, stay up late when you need to get up early..? I'd say extremely few people avoid everything they know to have a negative impact on them.

Quick the point is flying right past you!

I do go swimming and nont know how to swim. That isn't the point. I do because I have free will, yes. However, I know the risks and do not complain about it as the OP seems to be.

----------

And it would seem fairly natural that part of that can be discussing this kind of thing on a forum dedicated to Apple discussions, right?

But the OP tone was more complaining than leading the charge.

 

[C DM]

Quick the point is flying right past you!

I do go swimming and nont know how to swim. That isn't the point. I do because I have free will, yes. However, I know the risks and do not complain about it as the OP seems to be.

----------



But the OP tone was more complaining than leading the charge.

There's that, but you also have to start somewhere, and often even simply complaining is a starting point for a discussion and perhaps more.

 

[hafr]

This thread really shows how people are unwilling to admit their own weaknesses and even more unwilling to be supportive of others. It's fairly depressing actually.

 

[rtomyj]

There's that, but you also have to start somewhere, and often even simply complaining is a starting point for a discussion and perhaps more.

You're right. I can see both sides but lean more toward the, "Stop using your phone" crowd.

 

[hafr]

You're right. I can see both sides but lean more toward the, "Stop using your phone" crowd.

A) Think it's a good idea that Apple adds an option that is beneficial for any and all iOS-user who isn't legally blind, available for those who want it and never has to be activated by those don't
B) Don't.

Why do people tend to lean more towards B than A?

 

[joejoejoe]

A) Think it's a good idea that Apple adds an option that is beneficial for any and all iOS-user who isn't legally blind, available for those who want it and never has to be activated by those don't
B) Don't.

Why do people tend to lean more towards B than A?

This thread started as someone asking why apple won't approve... implying that apple should approve the app in the app store. It goes without saying that something like f.lux breaks all the rules that the APIs are built for.

As for Apple adding a new setting, sure, why not, their accessibility settings could always get better. Why don't they improve invert to keep graphics looking correct? Why don't they do this? Why don't they do that?

All in good time.

The general population doesn't have this problem nor do they care, that's probably why you see people leaning towards B. It's hard to be passionate about a change that you don't empathize with.

 

[C DM]

This thread started as someone asking why apple won't approve... implying that apple should approve the app in the app store. It goes without saying that something like f.lux breaks all the rules that the APIs are built for.

As for Apple adding a new setting, sure, why not, their accessibility settings could always get better. Why don't they improve invert to keep graphics looking correct? Why don't they do this? Why don't they do that?

All in good time.

The general population doesn't have this problem nor do they care, that's probably why you see people leaning towards B. It's hard to be passionate about a change that you don't empathize with.

But passionate enough to post to make that B point when you can either not post in that case if you are truly not passionate or simply post something along the lines of A if you really don't care one way or another but truly wanted to post something for some reason.

 

[rtomyj]

A) Think it's a good idea that Apple adds an option that is beneficial for any and all iOS-user who isn't legally blind, available for those who want it and never has to be activated by those don't
B) Don't.

Why do people tend to lean more towards B than A?

I lean more toward B because of the language used. It is NOT a necessity (subjectively). The mini rant about a close system makes little sense. You can jailbreak and get it, so good. And when you can't use it, instead of adjusting usage, OP complains.

 

[ElectronGuru]

There's a new option in the iOS 7.1 beta3 to 'Reduce White Point' in the settings.

Maybe that option will work the same way f.lux does...let's wait and see...

Anyone with beta3 and flux experience, able to report what this is like?

 

[PNutts]

Anyone with beta3 and flux experience, able to report what this is like?

Unfortunately, Reduce White Point does not do what f.lux does. They are two entirely different things.

 

[Lazlow]

Not gonna bother reading all these pages but I agree, f.lux should be freaking mandatory on all electronics. Sleep hygiene is so widely overlooked, and I guarantee doctors would be prescribing a lot less Ambien if we actually worried about it more.

 

[joejoejoe]

But passionate enough to post to make that B point when you can either not post in that case if you are truly not passionate or simply post something along the lines of A if you really don't care one way or another but truly wanted to post something for some reason.

trying to decipher exactly what that sentence is trying to say, but if I got it right, the answer is that people on these forums love to spread their opinion. people love to be right, and people love to bash others in order to win without losing face (oh the beauty of anonymity).

just take a look at IMDB forums, you think it's bad here? yikes.

if everyone here went by their real name and had a picture of themselves by every post, I'm sure less would be screaming their opinions and more would be willing to have productive conversations with members, rather than pulling hair and pissing on each other left and right.

 

[hafr]

This thread started as someone asking why apple won't approve... implying that apple should approve the app in the app store. It goes without saying that something like f.lux breaks all the rules that the APIs are built for.

As for Apple adding a new setting, sure, why not, their accessibility settings could always get better. Why don't they improve invert to keep graphics looking correct? Why don't they do this? Why don't they do that?

All in good time.

The general population doesn't have this problem nor do they care, that's probably why you see people leaning towards B. It's hard to be passionate about a change that you don't empathize with.

The question isn't why people who don't care for f.lux aren't passionate, but why it's so common for people (even the odd f.lux user!) to say "no" and belittle (is that the right word?) the issue instead of being supportive.