F1 to consider wage and age limit

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
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Wage limit I could go with... but an age limit! :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

Unbelievable...

I still can't believe they haven't figured out what is wrong with F1... :rolleyes:
 

brap

macrumors 68000
May 10, 2004
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Nottingham
Lord Blackadder said:
Sounds like they're really grasping at straws...if this year turns out to be competitive they'll probably drop this.
That's so not the point.

This is just a poorly disguised attempt to oust Schumi for being too damn good. I don't like the guy's attitude, but he's without a doubt one of the greatest, if not the greatest. What a shambles.
 

Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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Sod off
Sure this is aimed at getting rid of Schuey's dominance, but if somebody else wins the title this year, do you honestly think they'll continue trying to indermine him to the extent that they are now? Right now, as I said, other teams are willing to back any rule or regulation that might hurt Ferrari, almost without exception.

Where do you think it ends, then? When Schuey is gone, or no longer dominant? You may be right, but if they keep this up they will turn F1 into a laughingstock. Next thing you know they'll be giving Schuey a 15-second handicap.
 

brap

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May 10, 2004
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Lord Blackadder said:
Sure this is aimed at getting rid of Schuey's dominance, but if somebody else wins the title this year, do you honestly think they'll continue trying to indermine him to the extent that they are now? Right now, as I said, other teams are willing to back any rule or regulation that might hurt Ferrari, almost without exception.
Nothing comes as a surprise, looking at the mickey mouse regs they are looking at (and those which have passed).
Where do you think it ends, then? When Schuey is gone, or no longer dominant? You may be right, but if they keep this up they will turn F1 into a laughingstock. Next thing you know they'll be giving Schuey a 15-second handicap.
I've a feeling it will end once the other teams catch up - not that it's right, in any way, but it does seem like this is their intent. Personally, I think Ferrari have done a damn fine job, and ought not to be penalised for it.
 

Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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Sod off
I don't know, when you look at the state of F! right now, I feel that Ferrari's dominance has a negative effect on the sport, because lets face it - the results are pretty predictable.

With that said, you are totally correct that it is NOT Ferrari's fault and they should not be penalized. However, it seems inevitable that other teams will try to erode Ferrari's ability to win off the track if they can't beat them in the races. Other teams need to start winning races, that's all there is to it. If this season sees McLaren or BAR or somebody stepping up and winning races and making the championship really close, I think that some of this rules nonsense will cease to be as big of an issue.

With ONE caveat: the article mentioned that several teams are operating with an unsustainably large budget in order to keep up with Ferrari. Even if the series gets truly competitive again, some teams may be spent out financially. I don't know the numbers on that, however.
 

Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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Sod off
The age limit IS dumb; If Schuey is still kicking A** in his 40's there's absolutely no reason to boot him out. (Although the thought of that probably keeps other teams awake nights.) :p
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
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I don't think it's aimed at Schumacher myself, he'd have retired before this rule was passed.

But I do think it's possibly aimed at stopping another period of dominance like what we are seeing now, which if you take Kimi for example is a real possibility in the future, he's very young and very good.

I wonder what the age would be??? 33, 36, 39?? it's insane... age has nothing to do with it, look at Prost, Mansell, D Hill, Fangio... okay there was Patrese but I'm sure you get my drift. ;)

Now a wage cap would be a good start, or maybe pay-per-point?
 

mpw

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Jun 18, 2004
6,364
1
IMO

Wage limit: Never going to happen. Maybe a limit on a teams budget but I can't see that even being workable.

Age limit: Even less likely to happen. It'd almost certainly be illegal in Europe and America.

Technical limits are the only measure they'll be able to take to save F1.

I say have a fuel limit that forces the teams to achieve an arbitary consumption figure of say 30mpg of regular road pump fuel and put them on any brand of tire as long as they're available original equipment on a production car selling for less than $100,000 and not in limited production.
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
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mpw said:
I say have a fuel limit that forces the teams to achieve an arbitary consumption figure of say 30mpg of regular road pump fuel and put them on any brand of tire as long as they're available original equipment on a production car selling for less than $100,000 and not in limited production.

The thing with that though is that you'd need to apply those rules to all the lower formula, otherwise F1 wouldn't be the fastest anymore, and then it's not really F1. ;)


edesignuk said:
That's what I wish they'd do with footballers
that's exactly what I was thinking as I was typing it... heheheh
 

Counterfit

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Aug 20, 2003
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sitting on your shoulder
iGAV said:
The thing with that though is that you'd need to apply those rules to all the lower formula, otherwise F1 wouldn't be the fastest anymore, and then it's not really F1. ;)
They tried that before though. Made it tricky for the drivers, and I doubt it cut costs at all. I do recall hearing that Prost was excellent at managing the fuel consumption too... ;)
 

mpw

Guest
Jun 18, 2004
6,364
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iGAV said:
The thing with that though is that you'd need to apply those rules to all the lower formula, otherwise F1 wouldn't be the fastest anymore, and then it's not really F1. ;)
The point is F1 isn't working as it is, so why not make the changes to the lower formulas?

I don't watch F1 (when I bother at all) for the outright speed I watch for the skill and excitement.

I'll bet that each team would find ways to get their fuel consumptions down and still give us a more exciting race than at present if on skinny tires.
 

mpw

Guest
Jun 18, 2004
6,364
1
I've got it!

To bring back the excitement they should bring an element of that school yard favourite....Tag!

One driver starts with a 30 sec. penalty and can pass that penalty to any other driver by taggin him! Maybe 45sec. for a really big shunt!

Now we're gonna see some action.
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,568
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johnnowak said:
The age limit will never go through. I hope.
Instead of an age limit there should be a mandatory physical to determine fitness to race. If all sides agree then there will probably be a salary cap.
 

MOFS

macrumors 65816
Feb 27, 2003
1,217
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Durham, UK
iGAV said:
I don't think it's aimed at Schumacher myself, he'd have retired before this rule was passed.

But I do think it's possibly aimed at stopping another period of dominance like what we are seeing now, which if you take Kimi for example is a real possibility in the future, he's very young and very good.

I wonder what the age would be??? 33, 36, 39?? it's insane... age has nothing to do with it, look at Prost, Mansell, D Hill, Fangio... okay there was Patrese but I'm sure you get my drift. ;)

Now a wage cap would be a good start, or maybe pay-per-point?
I think the age limit is for the second driver. So while Michael Schumacher would never be affected, Barichello might. I think this makes sense, since duffers who hang around doing nothing but complain (cough Coulthard!)
would have to work consistently hard to get to be first driver, while there would be more younger drivers at teams.
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
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Counterfit said:
do recall hearing that Prost was excellent at managing the fuel consumption too...
Yeah Prost had a very smooth and sympathetic driving and throttle style. ;)

Have you seen the video with Senna driving an NSX at Suzuka?? They installed 3 in-car cameras to capture his feet (with his scary Wacko Jacko black leather slip ons and white socks) the speedo/tacho and interior vista.

Senna used to do this really mental thing with his right foot on the throttle.... he used to repeatedly floor it and lift off, floor it and lift off in mid corner, such a strange technique.

There's alot of debate about what he was trying to do, some think it was a habit from the turbo days, which he used to try and overcome the massive turbo lag of the '80's to try and keep the turbo spooled up, or that he was trying to use it as a basic form of traction control.

Others believe that he was driving the NSX (which is naturally aspirated) to curb the understeer the NSX was famed for, whilst trying to keep the needle as close to the peak rpm range as possible and thus keep the engine on the boil, whatever he was trying to do though... it certainly wasn't good for fuel consumption. :p

Of course the real master of car preservation was Jim Clark. :)


mpw said:
The point is F1 isn't working as it is, so why not make the changes to the lower formulas?
Because maybe there is nothing wrong with those lower formula's and changing them may negatively affect them perhaps?


mpw said:
I don't watch F1 (when I bother at all) for the outright speed I watch for the skill and excitement.
If you're not bothered about outright speed, why not just watch F3000 or DTM?? DTM's brilliant... much better than our Touring Car series, and they've got Mika and Alesi too :)

If F1 were to lose it's crown as the fastest single seat race series, then it has little to differentiate itself from lower formula or the emerging GP2 which as I understand will be more more powerful (atleast at the beginning) than F1 when the latter reverts to V8's next season.


mpw said:
One driver starts with a 30 sec. penalty and can pass that penalty to any other driver by taggin him! Maybe 45sec. for a really big shunt!
God no! 'cos then Montoya would be champ! :eek: :p :p
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
May 7, 2004
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Sod off
chanoc said:
Is F1 like the events in the USA where rednecks go drink beer in the hot sun, and mindlessly watch cars go around in circles? :rolleyes: :D
Yeah, except for the circles part. F1 has real corners. :p :D

STEREOTYPICAL NASCAR FAN:

Beer: Natural Light, Natural Ice, other cheap watery p***
Music: Country
Hairstyle: Mullet
Vehicle of Choice: 3/4 ton heavy-duty Chevy/Ford/Dodge pickup with dualies and 5th wheel pulling a 40-foot RV trailer.

So what is a stereotypical European F1 fan? I'll leave it to one of our contributers from across the pond to play along and answer that.
 

DrEasy

macrumors member
Jan 12, 2004
99
0
don't get me started on what's wrong with F1! :0

- refuelling: they introduced it about 15 years ago thinking it made for a great show. What were they thinking? All it did was typically allow Shumi to wait for the guy in front of him to go to the pits, do a couple of quick laps before getting in as well. Think of all the overtaking manoeuvres we have been deprived because of that! Not to mention security issues, do you remember what happened to Verstappen?

- bad economy due to the stupid concorde agreements: Bernie gets 70% of TV rights, that's unbelievable! Give him 33% (and I'm generous), and you'll see more teams entering the competition. More cars on the track means more overtaking! And get rid (at least temporarily) of that big entrance fee for new teams, we need new blood!

- boring tracks: with all the chicanes and slow turns, how can tracks separate the men from the boys? We need more of "eau rouge" and less of hungaroring!

- idiotic new qualifying rules: messing up with tradition will alienate the real fans, and it's not like the new rules have introduced any type of excitement.

- ridiculously stupid new scoring system: even Zsoltgartner can score points now by just driving home his Minardi (assuming a few cars break down in front of him). How is that the pinnacle of racing? Points attributed to the top 8, knowing that we barely manage to have 18 cars on the track, hell I could score points with my Cavalier.

- bad TV: if only the directors showed what was happening at the back of the pack from time to time, we'd be witnessing some great racing. And there would be more sponsors willing to finance the backmarkers. Pop quizz: which driver had the biggest number of successful overtaking moves last season?

I used to be a HUGE F1 fan, but for the past couple of years I haven't bothered watching any of it, I just follow the results on the web. F1 has always been about business first, but whatever charm it had is totally gone now. We need people like Jackie Stewart or Nelson Piquet (people with credentials, character and charisma) to get involved and rescue F1.

EDIT: answer to the pop quiz: Felipe Massa.
 

chanoc

macrumors 6502
May 20, 2003
339
0
Anchorage, Alaska USA
Lord Blackadder said:
Yeah, except for the circles part. F1 has real corners. :p :D

STEREOTYPICAL NASCAR FAN:

Beer: Natural Light, Natural Ice, other cheap watery p***
Music: Country
Hairstyle: Mullet
Vehicle of Choice: 3/4 ton heavy-duty Chevy/Ford/Dodge pickup with dualies and 5th wheel pulling a 40-foot RV trailer.

So what is a stereotypical European F1 fan? I'll leave it to one of our contributers from across the pond to play along and answer that.
I will never forget when Tom Leykis dissed Dale Earnheart after he died. So many redneck callers were irrate and threaten to kick Tom's ass - too funny. Found the file on the P2P Gnutella network, but have since lost it.

So what is so intellectualy appealing about watching cars go around in circles? Oh wait, common sense! :rolleyes:
 

Counterfit

macrumors G3
Aug 20, 2003
8,201
0
sitting on your shoulder
wdlove said:
Instead of an age limit there should be a mandatory physical to determine fitness to race.
There is actually. If Dr. Sid Watkins says "You're not fit enough", well, that's it, you're not racing until he changes his mind. And Michael Schumacher is probably the fittest driver on the grid (not like there's much difference between them all now anyway :rolleyes: ) and yet he's also the oldest (thanks to Panis' retirement).

iGav said:
God no! 'cos then Montoya would be champ!
we can't let that happen!! *ties Monty's shoes together* :D
 

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