Face ID Appears to Fail at Telling Apart Brothers Who Aren't Twins in New Videos [Updated]

[terrapinjess]

The phone left my view twice/three times during the demonstration -- I call BS

Anyway.. I hope they bring back Touch ID (to use in conjunction with Face ID)

 

[ProphetX]

1 in a million. given 7.6 billion people in the world. This means there are 7,600 other people in the world that could look like you...obviously your family members are a good start. This isn't proving anything.

What do you think about my earlier post?
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ns-in-new-video.2084599/page-13#post-25391709

 

[macfacts]

The important part that people aren't realizing is that when you record those two first scans, the phone only registers partial information for both scans.

Each scan after that to unlock your phone adds incremental measurements to the full database of measurements of your face.

Remember setting up touch id? It asked you to press your finger multiple times. Perhaps face id should scan your face multiple times instead of just once or twice. That is a failure on how Apple created the setup process for face id.

Stop making excuses.

 

[Feenician]

Regarding 1 : 1,000,000, Tim Cook also said that there were no FM chips in iPhones so the National Association of Broadcasters did a tear down and guess what they found. FM chips! Apparently Tim Cook only believes they're FM chips if Apple had enabled them. In his mind, that is not a lie. So I knew this Face ID would have issues for at least the first time out the gate.

This is why I'll be saving money and waiting for iPhone XI with the return of Touch ID.

Ah, this old chestnut. iPhone 7 and onward don’t have the circuitry at all and prior phones didn’t physically have the chip connected to the headphone jack, the only way an antenna could be attached.

 

[SashJ]

[doublepost=1509826334][/doublepost]

Remember setting up touch id? It asked you to press your finger multiple times. Perhaps face id should scan your face multiple times instead of just once or twice. That is a failure on how Apple created the setup process for face id.

Stop making excuses.

I agree, that maybe they should have added 4 scans or maybe 5 during setup.

But that can easily be fixed with a software update, so is it really a failure...not really.

Your also assuming that the phone they are using doesn't have a manufacturing flaw, which could be likely since they had a struggle with creating the components for Face ID during this batch.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

[doublepost=1509826334][/doublepost]


Your also assuming that the phone they are using doesn't have a manufacturing flaw, which could be likely since they had a struggle with creating the components for Face ID during this batch.

That's ok then. Just a manufacturing flaw that doesn't fail safe.

 

[hermitman]

With the machine learning, I am wondering if Apple will add a learning threshold to the device to help satisfy the requirements for Banks and such. I would imagine that as it learns the face, it will be harder to spoof. It would be nice if the user could manually speed up this process by doing a detailed retrain process.

As a rule, I am liking FaceID really well. I LOVE being able to interact with my device without having to pick it up. It is a great device to have in my kitchen. If the device locks, a quick "hey Siri" gets me back to my webpage or recipe without me having to touch the device, or, put my face near my camera for an iris scan.

It is not retraining the neural network, specifically the convolution neural network. The network is pretrained to learn representation of the face. What is happening is that it generates nice data points in the representation space, and run a nearest neighbor like algorithm to determine if it is a hit or miss. That is where the “use it more makes it better coming from”. However, it will not work for this misclassification since you are not going to be able to represent the two faces far enough in the representations space. It is a problem with the pretrained network. It is a fundamental limitation of Convolution neural network.

 

[gumsterpr]

Can people make more excuses? Guys/girls this shows that this is less secure than we thought just accept it.

 

[SashJ]

[doublepost=1509827449][/doublepost]

Can people make more excuses? Guys/girls this shows that this is less secure than we thought just accept it.

I bet if a crime happened you would be one of those idiots who screams "GUILTY" without even bothering following through with an investigation.

 

[dacimvrl]

OK, who cares, nothing is 100%. Why is it that society must always try to make something fail or find fault? Why can't we try to find the positive in things in life and not usually always trying to find the negative.

3 points:

1. The device is a $1000+ flagship
2. This is a core feature
3. People kept ******** on Note 8 face unlock when it wasn't working 100%. This is the same.

 

[dumastudetto]

I've read the first page ...



I think the drop of the iPhone beyond the camera when the 2nd younger brother tested tells me another iPhone X was used. Curious if the icons differed though.

Yes it all looks very suspicious to me.

 

[dacimvrl]

[doublepost=1509827449][/doublepost]

I bet if a crime happened you would be one of those idiots who screams "GUILTY" without even bothering following through with an investigation.

I bet if this happened to Samsung, you would be one of those idiots who screams "sh***y" without even bothering following through with an investigation.

^ sorry this is a parody of what you said, no intention to call you an idiot or anything.

besides in this case, APPLE is copying Samsung in making a bad face unlock....

 

[DeepIn2U]

Exactly the same as with a 6-digit passcode.

Or they can use ...

Vocal Input Mode Active Enter Code for Alpha 2 Command Function Lock:

One*Seven*Three*Four*Six*Seven*Two*One*Four Seven*Six*Charlie*Three*Two*Seven*Eight*Nine Seven*Seven*Seven*Six*Three*Tango*Seven*Three Two*Victor*Seven*Three*One*One*Seven*One*Eight Eight*Eight*Seven*Three*Two*Four*Seven*Six Seven*Eight*Nine*Seven*Six*Four*Three*Seven*Six *LOCK

 

[SashJ]

I bet if this happened to Samsung, you would be one of those idiots who screams "pos" without even bothering following through with an investigation.

besides in this case, APPLE is copying Samsung in making a bad face unlock....

This did happen to Samsung, and I really didn't care considering I have never bought their products.

How exactly did we get on the subject of copying?

 

[Ds6778]

Gonna be honest, Touch ID was quicker for me.

 

[jeremysteele]

3 points:

1. The device is a $1000+ flagship
2. This is a core feature
3. People kept ******** on Note 8 face unlock when it wasn't working 100%. This is the same.

It is not quite the same, as people were unlocking Samsungs with photos of people (that hasn't happened with the X... yet).

But I would agree that this does expose some major issues with their current incarnation of facial recognition. With some tweaking I am sure they can get it more accurate (although it will never be 100%)

 

[newyorksole]

I get it. Apple advertises how security conscious they are, but because you don’t care about security, no one else should either.

Eye care about security. Apple has given me no reason to doubt how secure my iPhone X is. Everyone should care about security, but this is just ridiculous.

Face ID is optional. Passcodes can be guessed, eye can put someone’s finger on their phone while they’re sleeping to unlock it and there are people who look alike who can use Face ID to unlock each other’s phone.

So now what?

 

[Cloudkicker]

I call BS on this. I simply don't believe their story.

Tim? Is that you?

Quite a few iPhone users gleefully pointed out facial recognition slips a few years ago when it was Samsung. Ah, but Apple...

 

[deanthedev]

My oh my, look at all the people just filled with glee. So happy they might have found a chink in Apples armor. Must feel good after the horrible news this week. Line-ups are Apple Stores for the over-priced iPhone X, great early reviews, a record breaking earnings call, guidance for another record breaker next quarter and news the iPhone 8 has been their best seller (until the X). It’s almost too much to take. Thank God we have some bad news to cheer about, even if it’s irrelevant.
[doublepost=1509830534][/doublepost]

Tim? Is that you?

Quite a few iPhone users gleefully pointed out facial recognition slips a few years ago when it was Samsung. Ah, but Apple...

Let us know when someone unlocks an iPhone X with a picture.

 

[x-evil-x]

look face ID might be a great idea, not sure about legally, if the police want to investigate, if you hold up the phone, you are toast. With a pass code, you can enter the wrong code and wipe the phone, just waiting for the first lawsuit to hit Tim's desk...I think face ID might be banned...

That’s why they built in ways to go straight to passcode setup. Just activate it if you know something might happen

 

[Cloudkicker]

Once again they don't show how the setup the phone. They could be each scanning their faces once during the setup process since it requires 2 full facial scans.

Doesn't require 2 identical face scans?

When I set up my Samsung touch ID, I needed initial 5 or 6 passes in different directions. I doubt I could -- going up to 100% -- have my thumb take me from 0 to 20. Then have a friend go from 20 to 80. Then have me finish off to 100.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Why doesn't everyone realize that Face ID/Touch ID is an added convenience, not an absolute solution for guarding one's privacy?

Because reasoned arguments don’t yield YouTube fame? They don’t generally lead to webpage hits either, so...

 

[FPro]

It is not only about the information/nude pics in the phone. Imagine your sibling borrowing your phone for 5 minutes and use it to buy himself another phone using ur FaceID for apple pay lol!!! Anyway, im 100% sure this is total crap. The fact that the setup process is not videod/recorded should raise so many questions. Apple clearly says that while setting up FaceID you should not be wearing any glasses, hat, scarf...etc and i think that is the main reason FaceID failed when his sibling was not wearing the glasses and then worked when he put on his glasses. One of them has simply setup FaceID while having his glasses on and that is why it had failed. Simple. I dare both of them here to come up with a video showing the setup process un cut

 

[deanthedev]

I think the drop of the iPhone beyond the camera when the 2nd younger brother tested tells me another iPhone X was used. Curious if the icons differed though.

Remember the very first TouchID hack? Where a cash reward was offered for a video of the first person to fool TouchID and to show the complete hack from beginning to end?

Then CCC did the unlock and got the money anyway? Even when showing an EDITED video?

To this day NOBODY has ever done a TouchID hack from beginning to end. You know why? Because they don’t want to show the failed attempts or how many times they had to redo it before it worked. In the real world you don’t get unlimited tries before you’re locked out.

Which is why I’m skeptical until someone at a reputable site does a controlled experiment.

 

[garylapointe]

Machine learning. The more you use it, the more secure it gets. Setting it up and handing it to your brother on the same day is bound to throw an error

I'm thinking something similar:

Every time the brother picks it up and it sees their similar-ish face and then unlocks it with the code, you're kind of telling the phone "this is me", right?