Faint "mesh" pattern on moving images?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by mcdj, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. mcdj macrumors 604

    mcdj

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    NYC
    #1
    I'm noticing a very subtle mesh or lattice patter forming on my screen when viewing a video or even dragging icons or scrolling a screen. It happens for instance, when move my mouse around the dock and the icons magnify. They get this pattern over them...very hard to see, but it's there. (13" MBP BTW)

    I don't recall seeing it on my previous 13" aluminum. Anyone know what it is? Is it just the dot matrix pattern inherent in the screen? I have no other issues with the screen. And this isn't even really an issue, just more of an annoyance.

    Thanks.
     
  2. hesunana macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    #2
    I also see this pattern on my 13" MBP. I used to think it was some dithering effect the panel was doing, but not I'm not so sure. So please, if anyone has an explanation, I would also very much like to hear it.

    Here's a fun test you can try. Place your head close to the screen and slide it (your head, no the screen :p) from side to side. Keep an eye on something dark gray, like for example a Firefox tab. See the same mesh pattern...?

    Very strange. :confused:
     
  3. mcdj thread starter macrumors 604

    mcdj

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    NYC
    #3
    The more I read about 6 bit dithering, the more I think this is what I'm seeing. Apparently there is some serious math and visual trickery going on to get the color depth and gamut of the new 13" MBP screen.
     
  4. agentemo1 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    #4
    I am having the same issue with my 2.53 uni mbp.... anyone else?? I took mine to mac authority today to see if they could figure it out but it hard to see. I worry they will just tell me im craz.
     
  5. agentemo1 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    #5
    So after some serious help and time at Mac Authority. I have confirmed this issue seems to affect the 2.66 15" and the 2.53... I am starting to think that is a serious issue across the line. I wonder if only a few people can see it. I am starting to wonder if apple messed with the refresh rate to get the battery life up on these things?? I am going to start calling apple monday and really tryin to get the top. Would either of you guys be willing to also call and start bring this issue out?
     
  6. t3heford macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    #6
    :0!
    I'm actually not crazy! I've seen it for the longest while and it's bothered me for the longest while as well!
    This latest mbp line has so many issues...
     
  7. SnowLeopard2008 macrumors 604

    SnowLeopard2008

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    #7
    Apple didn't mess with the refresh rate to boost battery life, notebook displays have a slow refresh rate. And all MacBook Pro displays are 8-bit, not 6-bit. No dithering involved.
     
  8. t3heford macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    #8
    So what causes the noticeable pattern? Other laptops don't have it.
     
  9. hesunana macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    #9
    Well if it's not dithering, maybe it's some effect (or even a defect) of LCD panel inversion? The pattern I'm seeing looks exactly like 2a, 2b, 4a or 4b on The Lagom LCD monitor test page.

    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php

    Also the Line-paired pixel / RGB sub-pixel dot-inversion examples from this page appear strangely familiar...

    http://techmind.org/lcd
     
  10. agentemo1 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    #10
    I am in agreement with you Hesunana... I have noticed that it does not matter what I am doing within the software when seeing this issue. If you sit and stare at a grey screen and move your head around or move your laptop around you can see this effect. I am starting to also wonder if it is a defect with the assembly of the screen.

    Again I noticed this with two other brand new 2.66 and the 13" model in the store. Not many people are noticing it that I try to show it to.

    How can we band together and open some sort of ticket with apple?

    best,

    Derek
     
  11. hesunana macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    #11
    I'm also very surprised more people don't see this. The strange pattern was one of the first things I noticed about the screen. :confused:

    Anyway, I started a thread at the official Apple discussions forum and also posted two pictures of the pattern there. The link is at end of this paragraph. Feel free to come by and join the "fun"... so far the thread has not gathered much interest. I also tried booting an Ubuntu Live CD and the pattern was still visible, so it's definitely a hardware issue. Also I noticed that on my 13" MBP the pattern is way more pronounced in top half of the screen. At very bottom I can hardly see it at all.

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2121176

    And here are the pictures:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/hesunana/MacBookPro

    So umm, anyone experiencing this issue have an Apple Store nearby? :) It would be really interesting to hear what the geniuses say. I would do this myself, but there are no Apple Stores in my country and no Apple resellers or service providers within 150 miles. Yes, I live in the middle of nowhere. *sigh*
     
  12. w00t951 macrumors 68000

    w00t951

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #12
    Actually, I think that Apple uses LED screens, which have an incredibly high refresh rate and a much higher gamut/brightness with no time to warm up. So, LCD is Liquid Crystal Display, while LED is Light Emitting Diode. Like mini light bulbs. Not sure if that helps.
     
  13. hesunana macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    #13
    MacBook Pro displays do indeed have leds, but they are used as a light source (backlight). Other than that, it's just a standard LCD screen.
     
  14. sab150 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    #14
    i cant believe i have found this! i thought i was going crazy after recieving my replacement macbook pro 13" i noticed the pixels but only when i move my head and mainly on greys.. i know its bieng overly picky but im glad to see im not the only one with a keen eye :p

    is this a common issue? ..or is it even an issue at all? i have an external display so does not bother me too much but i imagine if the macbook pro is your main display they it would!

    my screen is perfectly even and from what i have found it looks like a software issue rather than hardware as people are getting varying examples of this whilst running windows via bootcamp...

    also can anyone confirm the 13" macbook pro are 6bit panels? or 8bit?
     
  15. agentemo1 macrumors newbie

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    Aug 12, 2009
    #15
  16. sab150 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    #16
  17. bdr420 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    #18
    This is just an artifact due to the type of LCD technology used in these particular screens, not because its bad/defective. It just means its of the cheaper variety. What you are seeing is dithering (6-bit Panel).
     
  18. sab150 macrumors regular

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    Jul 9, 2009
    #19
    ok thanks.. and does the 15 inch have a 6bit panel and dithering
     
  19. bdr420 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    #20
    my late 2008 15" has dithering, but its not terrible. I think it is pretty uncommon to have a 8-bit TN lcd.
    I don't really notice a pattern while dragging things, but if i look real close at the black-level test here and crank my brightness i can see dithering patterns.
     
  20. TheSpaz macrumors 604

    TheSpaz

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    #21
    Just to chime in... my new MacBook Pro has the same issue... it seems to be worse on the left side.

    I have a sneaky plan though.

    My brother said he'd trade his 13" MacBook for my 13" MacBook Pro. Hehe. His screen doesn't display this problem and it's almost the same computer anyways... sooooo.... hehehehe.

    Yes, I realize how picky I am.
     
  21. t3heford macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    #22
    I brought mine into an apple store last weekend. The Genius took it in for repairs (suggesting the logic board, rather than the lcd be replaced). I got my mbp13 back today (with a new logic board), and the screen was still doing the mesh pattern. I noticed it happens to about 50% of the mbps they have on the floor regardless of the model (some 15's did it as well). The Genius from the week before acknowledged that it wasn't fixed but tried to tell me that there was nothing I could do if some of the models on the floor had the same issue.

    I ended up speaking to the manager who said I could either return my mbp with her permission even though I bought it in July (but I'd have to return the printer and iPod touch which I no longer have) or I could have them order replacement lcds and repair it in-store.

    The genius I had ended up ordering 3 lcd panels in the hopes that one would satisfy the annoying and disgruntled customer he was dealing with (me). We shall see what comes this when they replace my lcd this coming week...
     
  22. kolax macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    #23
    I'm amazed this is affecting all MBP models - I thought it was just the 15" anti-glare!

    If Apple is offering to replace and exchange displays/laptops to rectify this problem, then maybe it is more widespread than they let it off to be..
     
  23. t3heford macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    #24
    Go to tinyurl.com/yamcyms
    if you try to move the browser window and you see a distinct pattern, then your macbook is defective. To some extent, all the current macbooks (I tested this on every laptop in the store) have trouble properly refreshing images. iMacs do not have this problem and display absolutely no ghosting when the image is moved. Some laptop (or rather laptop lcd screens) produce extremely weird patterns.
    I now have a fixed screen, courtesy of apple, as my previous screen displayed a purple striped image whenever I moved the browser window. Reaally weird.
     
  24. TheSpaz macrumors 604

    TheSpaz

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    #25
    I have learned to just live with this "defect" and I'll tell you why.

    I looked at not only MacBook Pro displays... but my trusty 3 year old Apple Cinema Display does the same thing, but I never noticed it before because I don't sit as close to it as a laptop. Also, the LCD displays at work do it (on the same side too... weird) and the iMac displays do it too.

    I also looked at various PC displays and other standalone LCD displays and those too also had the same meshing when moving windows around.

    I think it just might be the way LCD technology is. I barely notice it anymore and if I don't think about it, I don't see it. It's kind of a mind game really.

    Just try not to think about it.
     

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