False rMB rumor thread

[Jobsian]

I'm getting really itchy over a Skylake rMB, this board is becoming eerily quiet. A lot of us are just waiting for any Skylake announcement, it's looking like we'll be waiting another few months. This is a thread for clearly fabricated rumors (even by yourself) as a kind of therapy in the meantime.

I'll start with something I "read" recently:

KGI Securities analyst Ming Chi Kuo has announced that an updated Retina Macbook is imminent, with claims of Skylake, an upgraded front-facing camera and a "new chassis". While a change in form factor would be an unusual move for Apple for a 2nd iteration of a product, the claims are consistent with reported leaks showing a second USB-C port and another of a greater capacity battery part.

 

[boltjames]

I'll start with something I "read" recently:

Not this again.

It's not happening. Apple will not upgrade the RMB this significantly a year after its release. It's a niche product for a niche audience, they haven't sold enough of them to justify the R&D hit.

Store this thread for 2017 (I'm betting on 2018).

BJ

 

[SteveJUAE]

My 2c worth

Chance of extra holes in the case for ports/SD slot etc etc 0 or less

Better front camera < 10%

16GB RAM < 5%

1TB SDD < 20%

Skylake M < 5%

Other Skylake processors 0 or less

14" Version of rMB 0 or less

In the context and functionality of the rMB slightly better graphics and marginally better battery offered by Skylake M is only justified if Apple think they can then squeeze an extra $100 or so out of you, if not it wont happen yet.

 

[phositadc]

Not this again.

It's not happening. Apple will not upgrade the RMB this significantly a year after its release. It's a niche product for a niche audience, they haven't sold enough of them to justify the R&D hit.

Store this thread for 2017 (I'm betting on 2018).

BJ

So you think 3 years for an update? Has Apple EVER gone that long on any computer? I know the Mac mini had a long drought but was it even 3 years?

 

[pjfan]

Skylake is the only update that makes sense. I'm sure there are things they learned with returns about the keyboards, batteries, and hinges that will make the product tighter in version 2, but none of it is meaningful to the majority of rMB customers.

The only reason I could imagine (and this is a serious reach for today, but might fit into BJ's time line) an update would happen for a new Apple monitor. Apple would want all the OS X machines to push to the new monitor, and I can't imagine a TB Display replacement that isn't 5k.... hell, maybe the Skylake M won't push that either.

Full disclosure; I'm displacing my MBA very soon with a rMB; have been hoping for Refurbs first though. My 2010 13" MBA has started slowing my progress down in the last couple weeks (Business use very different than my Engineering past), and I keep thinking Refurb store would hit, but now Black Friday is upon us so I'll go with new. Can't let anything more get in the way of business.

 

[boltjames]

So you think 3 years for an update? Has Apple EVER gone that long on any computer? I know the Mac mini had a long drought but was it even 3 years?

I have not seen any sales figures, but my guess is that the RMB could be the slowest selling computer Apple has ever released. Not because it is a bad machine, mind you, but because of its price, feature set, innovation, and internal competition this is a niche computer for a niche audience. It's not designed to be a mass product selling hundreds of millions of units.

Niche luxury products tend to not get updated quickly due to low sales, especially if said luxury product is laden with features years ahead of its time. The RMB checks both boxes.

BJ

 

[lite426]

I have not seen any sales figures, but my guess is that the RMB could be the slowest selling computer Apple has ever released. Not because it is a bad machine, mind you, but because of its price, feature set, innovation, and internal competition this is a niche computer for a niche audience. It's not designed to be a mass product selling hundreds of millions of units.

Niche luxury products tend to not get updated quickly due to low sales, especially if said luxury product is laden with features years ahead of its time. The RMB checks both boxes.

BJ

The RMB isn't a niche product. The MacBook Pro is a niche product, most consumers don't need its extra power so much that they'd give up the lighter weight and nicer form factor of the MacBook. The price of either is pretty much the same. The RMB could be the slowest selling computer Apple has ever released - it could equally be the fastest selling computer Apple has ever released. There's no point speculating without the sales figures.

 

[Amazing Ox Space Monkey]

Niche luxury products tend to not get updated quickly due to low sales, especially if said luxury product is laden with features years ahead of its time. The RMB checks both boxes.

BJ

I am afraid you get a little bit carried away. It's not a luxury product, it's a computer. And The Broadwell processor is not a feature ahead of its time; it's actually a feature of the past. I was highly disappointed Apple did not update the macbook in November, when the Skylake M was released to the market. Never mind, the rivals have already included the new processor in their product line. One can buy a Surface Pro with a SkyLake M, for example.

That the macbook has low sales is nothing more than your estimation. On the contrary, I'd claim it sells pretty well. My guess is exactly as good as yours because neither of us can get hold of the exact data on sales.

Personally, I'm in the market of a Macbook, too, but I have time, I can wait. We all know in Februrary or March Apple will update their macbooks to SkyLake and, depending on if there is a redesign of the macbook pro, I may get that instead.

 

[boltjames]

The RMB isn't a niche product. The MacBook Pro is a niche product, most consumers don't need its extra power so much that they'd give up the lighter weight and nicer form factor of the MacBook. The price of either is pretty much the same. The RMB could be the slowest selling computer Apple has ever released - it could equally be the fastest selling computer Apple has ever released. There's no point speculating without the sales figures.

I work in the corporate business world and between the 1000s of people in my company and the 1000s of others I engage with every year I would say that 90% of all MacBook's I see on desks and workstations and airports and colleges are MacBook Pro's. Infrequently I will see someone with a MacBook Air. I have never seen anyone with the new Retina MacBook except myself.

The MacBook Pro has been the core Apple notebook for years, the Air it's light/slim alternative until now. Casual users and typical businessmen would give up a Pro for a RMB if the form factor works for them, but art directors, creative directors, media producers, product developers, they'd never give up the ports and performance of the Pro as they need them in order to execute their work.

Do not forget that Apple is only 4% of the computer market and the vast majority of its users are in these creative/media roles. The RMB isn't for them.

BJ

 

[boltjames]

I am afraid you get a little bit carried away. It's not a luxury product, it's a computer. And The Broadwell processor is not a feature ahead of its time; it's actually a feature of the past. I was highly disappointed Apple did not update the macbook in November, when the Skylake M was released to the market. Never mind, the rivals have already included the new processor in their product line. One can buy a Surface Pro with a SkyLake M, for example.

That the macbook has low sales is nothing more than your estimation. On the contrary, I'd claim it sells pretty well. My guess is exactly as good as yours because neither of us can get hold of the exact data on sales.

Personally, I'm in the market of a Macbook, too, but I have time, I can wait. We all know in Februrary or March Apple will update their macbooks to SkyLake and, depending on if there is a redesign of the macbook pro, I may get that instead.

Among the world's computers, the RMB is most definitely a luxury. It is underpowered and overpriced, it sells because of how good looking it is and who makes it, that's the textbook definition of a "luxury" purchase in this segment. A decent Windows machine running this type of older processor with similar performance specs could be had for $700. The RMB is $1,600.

The Surface Pro is designed to be a workstation computer, no different than a MacBook Pro in that regard. The RMB is designed to be a second-computer for a traveling executive who doesn't want to drag along the 7 pound Dell he was given by his IT department as he boards his business class flight or settles in for a long day in the boardroom.

As far as the RMB being 'ahead of its time' and therefore capable of surviving 2+ years without a refresh, I am referring to the retina display, the USB-C technology, the fanless design, the battery life, the butterfly keyboard, the wireless technologies, the thinness, and the light weight. For the core RMB audience, it's more than powerful enough, doesn't take much processor to answer emails and Skype with the kids on a trip to Tokyo.

BJ

 

[Koudspeel]

I work in the corporate business world and between the 1000s of people in my company and the 1000s of others I engage with every year I would say that 90% of all MacBook's I see on desks and workstations and airports and colleges are MacBook Pro's. Infrequently I will see someone with a MacBook Air. I have never seen anyone with the new Retina MacBook except myself.

From my experience, as a junior employee of a corparate business and former student, I can say that many many people I see (both students and employees of business) are using the Macbook Air over the Macbook Pro. Both MBP and MBA have been around for years while the rMB is not even a year old.

Many people already have a good working MBP or MBA and aren't willing to just buy the rMB straight away. I'd say that we'll see a lot more rMB's next year as people are seeking slimmer devices these days and don't seek raw power anymore.(SP4, rMB, Yoga, etc..)

 

[BarcelonaPaul]

I most certainly do not regard the MacBook as a niche product. Judging by the amount of young people crowding around it last week at the Apple store, it's also the one that generates the most interest. It's bought by people who love its chic, amazing design and beautiful screen etc. Take a look at Instagram, it's full of young people posting pictures of their new purchase. It's quality. It's Apple. That's why its slightly expensive but 10 years ago, a basic iBook was £1400 here in the UK. Maybe the MacBook is £100 over priced but my gosh, it's certainly not a niche product. It's a perfect replacement for the dated Air. Certainly, if you edit LOTS in Final Cut Pro X, buy an iMac but for most other things, this is perfect. MacBook and MacBook Pro - these are the only two laptops needed in Apple's range.

 

[SteveJUAE]

From my experience, as a junior employee of a corparate business and former student, I can say that many many people I see (both students and employees of business) are using the Macbook Air over the Macbook Pro. Both MBP and MBA have been around for years while the rMB is not even a year old.

Many people already have a good working MBP or MBA and aren't willing to just buy the rMB straight away. I'd say that we'll see a lot more rMB's next year as people are seeking slimmer devices these days and don't seek raw power anymore.(SP4, rMB, Yoga, etc..)

In a back to front sort of way you have just confirmed what BJ has been saying

Firstly Apple are not cheap laptops for many reasons so once your forking out for a premium product it's simply old habits that force you down the road of best value for money and hence why rMBP and MBA are probably better perceived in that category over the rMB despite the rMB being available for less than a year.

To take a critical look at your real requirements and opt for lower spec less value for your $ product that could equally be sold in a jewellery shop window places the rMB in a more niche position IMO and possibly a new trend in buyers that Apple is appealing to.

Whether the rMB is for exec's or those that appreciate the functionality or those who can afford it or those just wanting anything Apple is debatably as equally as the new IPP in some respects

IMO it will never be as popular in it's current format or price range as other Apple offerings and its this that makes it niche

 

[oneMadRssn]

I actually think Macbook Air and Macbook Pro are very cheap (in a good way, good value) when you look at them on a per-year ownership cost.

Macbook's of all types tend to stay fast and up to date for a long time, much longer than an average Windows PC. It's common to see Macbooks here that are 5+ years old still working perfectly, running the latest OS X without issue. It is quite uncommon for a Windows PC to last more than a few years before it becomes too slow and not supported. Thus, on a per-year cost, Macbook are a smashing deal.

 

[boltjames]

I most certainly do not regard the MacBook as a niche product. Judging by the amount of young people crowding around it last week at the Apple store, it's also the one that generates the most interest. It's bought by people who love its chic, amazing design and beautiful screen etc. Take a look at Instagram, it's full of young people posting pictures of their new purchase. It's quality. It's Apple. That's why its slightly expensive but 10 years ago, a basic iBook was £1400 here in the UK. Maybe the MacBook is £100 over priced but my gosh, it's certainly not a niche product. It's a perfect replacement for the dated Air. Certainly, if you edit LOTS in Final Cut Pro X, buy an iMac but for most other things, this is perfect. MacBook and MacBook Pro - these are the only two laptops needed in Apple's range.

If you know of another notebook that pound-for-pound is more expensive for the performance it offers please let me know. We know that product couldn't come from the Apple line, and I'm not aware of some gold-plated diamond-encrusted Windows machine either.

You refer to young, rich people in the UK who frequent Apple shops and that's great, you and I are fortunate enough to be in that crowd. But be advised, 95% of the world cannot afford a $1,600 notebook let alone a $1,000 one, in the US the typical user is running Windows 7 from 2009 and has a computer they got for free at work. And when that computer runs down, they go to Best Buy and purchase a 15" Toshiba laptop with a Core i3 and a 1TB drive for $399.

There is a big world out there, not just the financially fortunate. When Apple looks at a product, they look at the size of the total market, not just the Apple userbase, so when you see a $1,600 computer that performs like a $399 computer and doesn't natively run the OS that 96% of the world uses, yes, you're talking about a VERY niche product. And that's why it doesn't need updating to Skylake, at least not this soon after release.

Point being, if you want an RMB go buy one. Do not wait for this phantom upgrade that isn't coming until at least 2017. If anything, look to Apple to release a 15" RMB before doing any of the under-the-hood stuff on the 12".

BJ

 

[lite426]

I don't understand why you Bolt James compare the MacBook to $399 laptops, saying "the performance is the same". People want light, people want nice sharp screens. These aren't niche interests. Why ignore them in your argument? The MacBook is good value for money compared with the competition for the same specs - screen, weight, build quality, design, convenient support all included. It's why I bought it. Not because of the brand name.

 

[boltjames]

I don't understand why you Bolt James compare the MacBook to $399 laptops, saying "the performance is the same". People want light, people want nice sharp screens. These aren't niche interests. Why ignore them in your argument? The MacBook is good value for money compared with the competition for the same specs - screen, weight, build quality, design, convenient support all included. It's why I bought it. Not because of the brand name.

I'm talking about the typical person, the average consumer, not we elite Apple buyers.

To the typical average American making $47,000 a year in annual household salary, a $399 Toshiba at Best Buy is what they're comparing a $1,599 Retina MacBook to. I'm not saying its right, I'm not saying it's something you or I would do, but this thread discusses what would incentivize Apple to upgrade what the world would perceive to be the most luxurious, upscale, and premium notebook currently in production and I just don't see it.

The RMB does its job extremely well, and the only people who want it upgraded to a better processor are those who are excluded from possessing it because it can't help them do their day-jobs and/or they can't afford it as a situational second computer. These tend to be the same people who want a MacBook Pro with a detachable screen so that they can save money by not having to buy a Pro and an iPad. Now they want the thinnest and lightest MacBook with a retina display, with a dozen ports, with a processor big enough to render a Star Wars film, without a fan, in a 15" size, and they want it for $999.

BJ

 

[KPOM]

Among the world's computers, the RMB is most definitely a luxury. It is underpowered and overpriced, it sells because of how good looking it is and who makes it, that's the textbook definition of a "luxury" purchase in this segment. A decent Windows machine running this type of older processor with similar performance specs could be had for $700. The RMB is $1,600.

BJ

The rMB starts at $1299 and is being discounted now by several resellers. The only Core M PC at $700 is from ASUS, and I'm guessing they are losing money on it. Intel charges as much for the Core M as they do the Core i5 and i7 in the MacBook Air. Most other notebooks that feature the Core M are $1000 or more.

There is a big world out there, not just the financially fortunate. When Apple looks at a product, they look at the size of the total market, not just the Apple userbase, so when you see a $1,600 computer that performs like a $399 computer and doesn't natively run the OS that 96% of the world uses, yes, you're talking about a VERY niche product. And that's why it doesn't need updating to Skylake, at least not this soon after release.

Point being, if you want an RMB go buy one. Do not wait for this phantom upgrade that isn't coming until at least 2017. If anything, look to Apple to release a 15" RMB before doing any of the under-the-hood stuff on the 12".

BJ

It would be pretty easy for them to replace the Broadwell with a Skylake chip early next year and make no other changes. There's virtually no R&D involved. They wouldn't be looking for early adopters to upgrade. They would just be keeping it "current" for new entrants into the market. Usually when they don't upgrade a processor they are phasing a product out (e.g. the plastic MacBook or the 13" non-Retina MacBook Pro).

 

[Amazing Ox Space Monkey]

It is underpowered and overpriced, it sells because of how good looking it is and who makes it, that's the textbook definition of a "luxury" purchase in this segment.

Most apple laptops sells because they look good, and because they are Apple. For many it's a symbol of status. Apple laptops are seen in general as overpriced and underpowered by the general population for the reasons you list in your other post.

The RMB is designed to be a second-computer for a traveling executive who doesn't want to drag along the 7 pound Dell he was given by his IT department as he boards his business class flight or settles in for a long day in the boardroom.

wow, that's another interesting assumption. It's designed for all people who need an ultra light laptop with a nice screen - at least, that is what attracts me to it. And it's gonna be my only computer.

As far as the RMB being 'ahead of its time' and therefore capable of surviving 2+ years without a refresh, I am referring to the retina display, the USB-C technology, the fanless design, the battery life, the butterfly keyboard, the wireless technologies, the thinness, and the light weight.

you falsely assume competition will not catch up and offer more competitive products in the same package. Besides, retina displays have been around for years and therefore can hardly be seen as avant guard. Wireless - "ahead of its time"? Are you sure?

 

[Samuelsan2001]

The chips are out I expect them to be in the rMB early next year jan-feb time, however I forsee no otehr changes at all except a USB C 3.1/thunderbolt 3 port.

 

[Crazy Badger]

Can't be too difficult to add another USB-C port?

If it had 2 and a faster processor I'd seriously consider one as a replacement for my MBA next year. Otherwise, it will have to be a rMBP as my eyes aren't getting any younger

 

[KPOM]

Can't be too difficult to add another USB-C port?

If it had 2 and a faster processor I'd seriously consider one as a replacement for my MBA next year. Otherwise, it will have to be a rMBP as my eyes aren't getting any younger

Broadwell-M chip sets support only one out of the box. To add another would require adding a second controller, which Apple has never done. Skylake-M can support 2, but I'm not sure Apple really wants to add a second port. They are pushing wireless.

 

[BarcelonaPaul]

I don't understand why you Bolt James compare the MacBook to $399 laptops, saying "the performance is the same". People want light, people want nice sharp screens. These aren't niche interests. Why ignore them in your argument? The MacBook is good value for money compared with the competition for the same specs - screen, weight, build quality, design, convenient support all included. It's why I bought it. Not because of the brand name.

I totally agree! You can't compare it build, looks, design to a £500 plastic HP laptop. It's like comparing my 1.4 Audi A3 Sedan to a base model 1.4 Ford Fiesta and saying that it's the same thing because it's got a same sized engine!

 

[BarcelonaPaul]

I also don't believe the majority of Apple MacBook customers are comparing these to cheap Windows stuff. From the experience of friends at university from many many countries, they've had crappy cheap Windows stuff THEN they bought into the iPhone and truly loved the experience and immediately wanted the Apple approach to computers. Here in the UK, that is 100% what I have witnessed over the last 4 years or so.

 

[boltjames]

I totally agree! You can't compare it build, looks, design to a £500 plastic HP laptop. It's like comparing my 1.4 Audi A3 Sedan to a base model 1.4 Ford Fiesta and saying that it's the same thing because it's got a same sized engine!

Ugh, I'm not comparing the $399 HP to the $1,599 Apple. Please read more carefully.

I'm pointing out that a) Apple doesn't sell enough units of the RMB to justify an upgrade this soon in the production cycle and b) that to the average person in the world a notebook that's 4x more expensive than what they can buy is most certainly a "luxury".

Your Audi A3 is a luxury car. The Ford Fiesta is not. To you, an Audi is commonplace, no big deal. To the Average Joe it's an unattainable luxury that he can only dream to afford. Same thing with the RMB which is more or less the Bentley of the notebook world.

BJ