Fastest possible external boot?

[petey2133]

So I have read many many threads, and I even made a post a few weeks ago but now it doesnt make sense to me.

I have a 2017 5k 4.2 with 40gigs ram and a 1 tb fusion drive.

I want to skip opening it up. I want to purchase a thunderbolt 3 enclosure (something like the OWC 4m2 or similar) and purchase some NMVe SSD's.

Now what I was reading in another thread, they said it wont disable the fusion drive, and it wont run "faster" than a factory drive would allow it to.

I was hoping to boot straight from the TB3 enclosure with a 1 TB ssd, and use the other slots or daisy chain it to more 1 or 2TB SSD's.

I understand its not cheap. (enclosures $260-320) on average. (NMVe's are $400-600 for 2tb drives). This will easily equal maybe $1000-1500 after completed. But i dont have to buy them all at once and add them over time as needed.

Whats the setup you would run, and could I get to those 2200-3400 transfer speeds by doing it?

 

[SecuritySteve]

So I have read many many threads, and I even made a post a few weeks ago but now it doesnt make sense to me.

I have a 2017 5k 4.2 with 40gigs ram and a 1 tb fusion drive.

I want to skip opening it up. I want to purchase a thunderbolt 3 enclosure (something like the OWC 4m2 or similar) and purchase some NMVe SSD's.

Now what I was reading in another thread, they said it wont disable the fusion drive, and it wont run "faster" than a factory drive would allow it to.

I was hoping to boot straight from the TB3 enclosure with a 1 TB ssd, and use the other slots or daisy chain it to more 1 or 2TB SSD's.

I understand its not cheap. (enclosures $260-320) on average. (NMVe's are $400-600 for 2tb drives). This will easily equal maybe $1000-1500 after completed. But i dont have to buy them all at once and add them over time as needed.

Whats the setup you would run, and could I get to those 2200-3400 transfer speeds by doing it?

You might want to check out the Thunderblade v4. 2 TB for around 1,100$, and speeds in the range you want. Plus it looks cool and is silent because it doesn't use fans.

 

[mikehalloran]

Thunderblade v4.

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-thunderblade

It looks like someone finally did it right.

It's less expensive to install internally: You can get a 2TB 970 EVO thrown inside for less than $1,100 (or a 1TB for less than $799) but if you really don't want to open up a 2017 iMac, this will do it.

Your boot times won't be quite as fast as installing an internal and getting rid of the HDD but it will be close enough for most users.

 

[petey2133]

You might want to check out the Thunderblade v4. 2 TB for around 1,100$, and speeds in the range you want. Plus it looks cool and is silent because it doesn't use fans.

Issue is unless I can separate the partitions in it I’m not really interested in it. I use about 250-300 gigs max on my computer. Then have 10-15 hdd’s And SSD’s to store photos and videos.

I don’t want to put all my eggs in on basket with just one huge internal based drive. If I could run them externally I would like to have a 1tb for operating system, 2tb/2tb/2/tb for storage. Then if I choose to I can daisy chain another enclosure to start again.

But it confuses me on the capabilities while some are saying I will only get 2/3 the speed of the internal SSD even through an external thunderbolt 3 system. As if it can’t boot from it without knowing the internal fusion drive is thefe
[doublepost=1547082830][/doublepost]

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-thunderblade

It looks like someone finally did it right.

It's less expensive to install internally: You can get a 2TB 970 EVO thrown inside for less than $1,100 (or a 1TB for less than $799) but if you really don't want to open up a 2017 iMac, this will do it.

Your boot times won't be quite as fast as installing an internal and getting rid of the HDD but it will be close enough for most users.

Through work I can get 970evo 2tb’s for $440 shipped no tax. Worst case scenario I cut her open and install a 2tb to future proof it then just run portable tb3 ssds. But it’s not ideal

 

[mikehalloran]

You need to do your own research. You are relying on a lot of armchair experts apparently.

The Thunderblade v4 will give you approximately the same speeds as an internal on a 2017 iMac over TB3—it uses NVMe 3 blades as does the 2017 iMac. Most other externals will not since they use SATA III or NVMe 2 SSDs.

I don’t want to put all my eggs in on basket with just one huge internal based drive.

I'm sorry. That's silly. Use Time Machine to back up to multiple locations so that, if your Mac is stolen, your data is safe.

Because of APFS, you want as much as possible on your boot SSD. By this, I mean work files that you actually use, not music and videos that you only watch. This way, if you screw something up badly, you can restore your system to its previous state in a few minutes through APFS Snapshots. BTW, those who use cloning software like CCC instead of Time Machine cannot use Snapshots for that purpose as it erases them with every use (says so on the CCC web site). In addition, the OS must be on one drive only or you cannot boot into the Repair Partition to use Snapshots.

For photo and video storage—files that you don't actually work with, NAS is great over ethernet or wireless. You can also stick 10–12TB WD RED HDDs into $22 USB 3 docks. Speed isn't an issue and 36TB is relatively inexpensive. The advantages of having a ton of external drives died with the G4.

 

[petey2133]

You need to do your own research. You are relying on a lot of armchair experts apparently.

The Thunderblade v4 will give you approximately the same speeds as an internal on a 2017 iMac over TB3—it uses NVMe 3 blades as does the 2017 iMac. Most other externals will not since they use SATA III or NVMe 2 SSDs.



I'm sorry. That's silly. Use Time Machine to back up to multiple locations so that, if your Mac is stolen, your data is safe.

Because of APFS, you want as much as possible on your boot SSD. By this, I mean work files that you actually use, not music and videos that you only watch. This way, if you screw something up badly, you can restore your system to its previous state in a few minutes through APFS Snapshots. BTW, those who use cloning software like CCC instead of Time Machine cannot use Snapshots for that purpose as it erases them with every use (says so on the CCC web site). In addition, the OS must be on one drive only or you cannot boot into the Repair Partition to use Snapshots.

For photo and video storage—files that you don't actually work with, NAS is great over ethernet or wireless. You can also stick 10–12TB WD RED HDDs into $22 USB 3 docks. Speed isn't an issue and 36TB is relatively inexpensive. The advantages of having a ton of external drives died with the G4.

Thank you for the facts. That was what I was getting around to.

I shoot a boat load of photos. Some times 6000-8000 a month. All raw, all 40-50mb each. I also do a lot of 4K video and like to use pro res formats that end up being anywhere from 80-100 gigs each. And I’m constantly rendering and moving this stuff and it’s time consuming.

I used to use time machine, but haven’t used it since 2012.

 

[mikehalloran]

I used to use time machine, but haven’t used it since 2012.

You should. Remember that you can exclude volumes that don't need TM such as your big photo storage volumes.

I like NAS for Time Machine. Some like the WD My Cloud support Time Machine right out of the box but it's ethernet only.

The Apple Airport Extreme and Time Capsule (tower) are great over WiFi. The little 2 or 3 TB HDDs aren't an issue since you can connect larger drives via USB.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202784

I'm paranoid enough to have a My Cloud and a TC in hidden locations—just in case—plus a couple of older pancake TCs in my office. Via ethernet, all Time Capsules are the same speed but only the tower supports 803.11ac like your iMac—it really is faster than Gigabit Ethernet if you have a clear enough path or a mesh system.

I shoot a boat load of photos. Some times 6000-8000 a month. All raw, all 40-50mb each. I also do a lot of 4K video and like to use pro res formats that end up being anywhere from 80-100 gigs each. And I’m constantly rendering and moving this stuff and it’s time consuming.

I get it. You are the wrong user for any kind of fusion drive. You should open that Mac and install a 2TB 970 EVO. Your boot drive needs to have all Apps, System files and all work files. Swapping in and out is time consuming but rendering files that reside on external drives is the worst.

You may also want a Thunderblade v4 since that gives you a 1–8T scratch drive and the exchange will be nearly as fast. Still, you don't want to store active files on it. OK, you can but rendering will be faster on the boot drive.

 

[petey2133]

You should. Remember that you can exclude volumes that don't need TM such as your big photo storage volumes.

I like NAS for Time Machine. Some like the WD My Cloud support Time Machine right out of the box but it's ethernet only.

The Apple Airport Extreme and Time Capsule (tower) are great over WiFi. The little 2 or 3 TB HDDs aren't an issue since you can connect larger drives via USB.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202784

I'm paranoid enough to have a My Cloud and a TC in hidden locations—just in case—plus a couple of older pancake TCs in my office. Via ethernet, all Time Capsules are the same speed but only the tower supports 803.11ac like your iMac—it really is faster than Gigabit Ethernet if you have a clear enough path or a mesh system.



I get it. You are the wrong user for any kind of fusion drive. You should open that Mac and install a 2TB 970 EVO. Your boot drive needs to have all Apps, System files and all work files. Swapping in and out is time consuming but rendering files that reside on external drives is the worst.

You may also want a Thunderblade v4 since that gives you a 1–8T scratch drive and the exchange will be nearly as fast. Still, you don't want to store active files on it. OK, you can but rendering will be faster on the boot drive.

It appears my best route is to peel it open. Didnt want to, but from a productivity standpoint, it just makes sense.

Boots faster, renders faster, and will help transfer faster....

To remove the Fusion drive, I will reference other threads that have mounting information to mount the SSD in there. Unless you have a link to the connection/mounting hardware.

 

[petey2133]

You should. Remember that you can exclude volumes that don't need TM such as your big photo storage volumes.

I like NAS for Time Machine. Some like the WD My Cloud support Time Machine right out of the box but it's ethernet only.

The Apple Airport Extreme and Time Capsule (tower) are great over WiFi. The little 2 or 3 TB HDDs aren't an issue since you can connect larger drives via USB.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202784

I'm paranoid enough to have a My Cloud and a TC in hidden locations—just in case—plus a couple of older pancake TCs in my office. Via ethernet, all Time Capsules are the same speed but only the tower supports 803.11ac like your iMac—it really is faster than Gigabit Ethernet if you have a clear enough path or a mesh system.



I get it. You are the wrong user for any kind of fusion drive. You should open that Mac and install a 2TB 970 EVO. Your boot drive needs to have all Apps, System files and all work files. Swapping in and out is time consuming but rendering files that reside on external drives is the worst.

You may also want a Thunderblade v4 since that gives you a 1–8T scratch drive and the exchange will be nearly as fast. Still, you don't want to store active files on it. OK, you can but rendering will be faster on the boot drive.

Okay, so i was thinking about it over the past few hours and I am going to do the internal.

So basically, remove the fusion drive completely (do I need to install a OWC thermal sensor?) then pull logic board out, flip over and pull the NVMe out replace it with the Evo970 with the connector from Sintech?

 

[mikehalloran]

do I need to install a OWC thermal sensor?

Most do not in the 2015–2017. I do because I'm usually installing a SATA III SSD in place of the HDD and I want a sensor on it. The Thunderblade v4 external is a lot faster than an SATA III SSD.

There are certain tests and disk utilities that, if the sensor is not detected, will make the fans run at full speed. Don't run those utilities.

 

[nambuccaheadsau]

Agree with above. Opt for the heat sensor kit.