Fate of the 12inch PB

[Zaty]

Sorry for starting yet another PowerBook thread but I've got one question to ask that has not been covered so far:

What do you think Apple would do if they were able to build 17in and 15in PBs G5 but were not yet able to put a G5 into the 12" for thermal reasons:

Would they:

A) Hold off the entire line and release a new G4 revision?
B) Launch the 17 and 15inchers and keep the 12"G4 (probably speed-bump it)?
C) Launch the 17 and the 15inchers and discontinue (temporarily) the 12"?

To me, alternative B seems the most unlikely but then, they still sell G4 PMs, don't they?

 

[jemeinc]

Sorry for starting yet another PowerBook thread but I've got one question to ask that has not been covered so far:

What do you think Apple would do if they were able to build 17in and 15in PBs G5 but were not yet able to put a G5 into the 12" for thermal reasons:

Would they:

A) Hold off the entire line and release a new G4 revision?
B) Launch the 17 and 15inchers and keep the 12"G4 (probably speed-bump it)?
C) Launch the 17 and the 15inchers and discontinue (temporarily) the 12"?

To me, alternative B seems the most unlikely but then, they still sell G4 PMs, don't they?

That's a good question... Isn't it funny how people see things differently ?... To me option B) seems like a logical choice because I think there really is a place for the 12" ... Some people may find it to be too small but I like the size, so much that I plan on giving my daughter my 14" iBook & getting either a 12" PB or iBook... I'm not sure on the model yet, but it's definetly going to be a 12"...

 

[nargot]

That's a good question... Isn't it funny how people see things differently ?... To me option B) seems like a logical choice because I think there really is a place for the 12" ... Some people may find it to be too small but I like the size, so much that I plan on giving my daughter my 14" iBook & getting either a 12" PB or iBook... I'm not sure on the model yet, but it's definetly going to be a 12"...

the 12" screen is plenty huge

 

[Zaty]

That's a good question... Isn't it funny how people see things differently ?... To me option B) seems like a logical choice because I think there really is a place for the 12" ... Some people may find it to be too small but I like the size, so much that I plan on giving my daughter my 14" iBook & getting either a 12" PB or iBook... I'm not sure on the model yet, but it's definetly going to be a 12"...

Having a mixed line-up of G4s and G5s PowerBooks just doesn't make sense to me.

I own a 12"PB and it is a great machine, so discontinuing the 12" permanently rather than temporarily would be a mistake unless the specs of the 12" iBook are upgraded to match the performance of the 12" PB.

 

[PlaceofDis]

the 12" powerbook i think is the best selling model - correct me if i am wrong - and by discontinuing it Apple might lose a lot of customers.
However, with smaller and smaller hard drives comming out they might be able to squeeze a G5 into that enclouse in maybe the next revision of the chips made by IBM, or it might take longer, but overall i hope Apple keeps this size around with a powerful chip as possible because it is an excellent machine!

 

[wordmunger]

*If* they can't make a 12-inch G5, I think they'll rebrand the 12-incher as an iBook. Whether or not there's a 12-inch G5, the whole iBook line will be upgraded anyway once there's a G5 PowerBook.

 

[lasuther]

If they are unable to launch a full G5 line, I think they should drop the 12". The 12" PowerBook seems to hold the iBook line back as far as options and features (such as spanning and RAM). When the PowerBook goes G5, I think it opens the iBook line to start pushing some serious speed on the G4s. I wouldn't want Apple to hold back just because they have a 12" PowerBook and don't want the iBooks to get to close in features to it. They are so close now already.

Another interesting option would be to make it into a larger widescreen computer, say a 13", that could better accomidate a G5. Would anyone like a widescreen version of the 12"?

lasuther

 

[Zaty]

If they are unable to launch a full G5 line, I think they should drop the 12". The 12" PowerBook seems to hold the iBook line back as far as options and features (such as spanning and RAM). When the PowerBook goes G5, I think it opens the iBook line to start pushing some serious speed on the G4s. I wouldn't want Apple to hold back just because they have a 12" PowerBook and don't want the iBooks to get to close in features to it. They are so close now already.

Another interesting option would be to make it into a larger widescreen computer, say a 13", that could better accomidate a G5. Would anyone like a widescreen version of the 12"?

lasuther

A widescreen 13" PB would be nice!

 

[wordmunger]

A widescreen 13" PB would be nice!

I don't think so. The 15-incher isn't much heavier than the 12-incher anyway. Why add another size? If anything, what Apple needs is an ultracompact notebook. Maybe an 11-inch screen and a weight under 3 pounds. If I had one of those, I'd take it with me *everywhere*.

 

[lasuther]

I don't think so. The 15-incher isn't much heavier than the 12-incher anyway. Why add another size? If anything, what Apple needs is an ultracompact notebook. Maybe an 11-inch screen and a weight under 3 pounds. If I had one of those, I'd take it with me *everywhere*.

Apple could turn the 12" into a small widescreen like the 10.6" Sony, but I can't see them putting a G5 in that. I'm very happly with the portablilty of the 12" and I'm not sure the is that much of a demand for anything smaller. I think turning the 12" PowerBook into a larger widescreen witha G5 with clearly seperate the iBook and PowerBook.

lasuther

 

[ilovemacrumors]

might?

However, with smaller and smaller hard drives comming out they might be able to squeeze a G5 into that enclouse

thats funny...might...remember computers were once the size of rooms. now they have a windoze desktop system runnning on a device the size of a pda. (http://www.oqo.com/) computers are only going to get more portable and simpler to operate..thats the goal.

 

[ExoticFish]

I don't think so. The 15-incher isn't much heavier than the 12-incher anyway. Why add another size? If anything, what Apple needs is an ultracompact notebook. Maybe an 11-inch screen and a weight under 3 pounds. If I had one of those, I'd take it with me *everywhere*.

i already take my 12" PB with me everywhere, it practically never leaves my side!

 

[wordmunger]

i already take my 12" PB with me everywhere, it practically never leaves my side!

As soon as I said that, I realized the same thing about myself. I have a TiBook and I take it almost everywhere. But there are sometimes when something a little smaller would really work better. I think once there are G5 laptops, that's automatically going to distinguish the iBooks from the PowerBooks, and we won't have these artificial distinctions between what makes a powerbook and what makes an iBook.

 

[tiktokfx]

Apple did this before when the 17" and 12" were introduced; the older titanium 15" was still kicking for a while before it got aluminized.

No reason Apple wouldn't upgrade 2 of the 3 lines first.

 

[realityisterror]

Apple did this before when the 17" and 12" were introduced; the older titanium 15" was still kicking for a while before it got aluminized.

No reason Apple wouldn't upgrade 2 of the 3 lines first.

well said. there is no other option but option B

reality

 

[blackfox]

Apple did this before when the 17" and 12" were introduced; the older titanium 15" was still kicking for a while before it got aluminized.

No reason Apple wouldn't upgrade 2 of the 3 lines first.

I think an upgrade from G4 to G5 will be much more substantive than the Ti to Aluminum transition...so not sure if I agree...on that note, I expect that when PB goe G5 there will be a change in form factor to accomodate underlying architectural changes. I do not believe a G5 runs hotter than current G4s utilized now, with the exception of a smaller surface area to cool if they use the 90nm chips...I go with option 'A'...the 12" will just have a clocked-down G5...they will come out at or near the same time across the line. This (as was noted) will help differentiate the PBs from the iBooks...besides this gives an convenient explanation to PB update delays

*edit* I do not mean to imply that G5 PBs are the NEXT revision, just that at the time they do switch...they all will.

 

[tiktokfx]

Just to clarify, I think it's more likely that Apple will release all 3 lines with G5s concurrently. I was just citing precedent for the possibility of them not waiting to fit it into 12"s before releasing the bigger ones with the G5.

 

[adamjay]

if they discontinued the 12", i'd just buy the 15" - i mean c'mon its a G5!!!

then again i own both a 12" and a 15" so i see the advantages of both and could learn to live without one or the other.

i do think there will be a 12" G5, it will certainly be a much slower processor than say the 17" due to heating issues, but i am confident that apple will release a full 3-model line of G5 laptops when the time comes.
30%+ more people would flock!

also, i'd laugh if i saw a G5 laptop with a 56k modem port.
all that power and 56kilobits bandwidth modem connection? i mean really!?, and leaving it out might save space to help keep it cool, or add backlighting to the 12"'s keyboard

 

[mms]

Even if they can't increase the clock cycle for the cpu, Apple will most likely release a 12" PowerBook at the same time. Even if it is only at 1GHz like it is now, 64-bit processing will eventually make a difference. Take the transition from G3 to G4 PowerBooks for example. The top-of-the-line Pismo (last G3 PB) was 500mhz, while the first TiBooks came at 450 and 500 (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[adamjay]

The top-of-the-line Pismo (last G3 PB) was 500mhz, while the first TiBooks came at 450 and 500 (correct me if I'm wrong).

Will do... 400mhz and 500mhz G4's but you were close

 

[adamjay]

but that is a good point, however we've never seen G5's down at 1ghz.
when the Powermac G4 came out, 350mhz and 400mhz were the lowest options. probably a 1.3ghz G5 in the 12" but that's a shot in the dark. either way 1ghz or 1.3ghz it would certainly fly!

 

[mms]

Thanks for the correction. I was sure it was either 400 or 450 but didn't feel like looking it up. I thought I would get my point across either way.

 

[blackfox]

also, i'd laugh if i saw a G5 laptop with a 56k modem port.
all that power and 56kilobits bandwidth modem connection? i mean really!?, and leaving it out might save space to help keep it cool, or add backlighting to the 12"'s keyboard

don't think the 56k modem will leave just yet...there are too many people who (potentially) use it. Although faster infrastructures are being built, for many people it is still the standard, or still the cheapest, to use...Apple probably wouldn't go and sacrifice that potential function to accomodate a back-lit keyboard, as it is more of a frill (which has some function, and I like by the way)...at least that is the way I see it...
BTW Although I am also excited about the (eventual) advent of G5 PBs, there is a good chance (at least initially) that you will not see a huge performance leap from current models...they will be on a better path (for scalability etc.) but the revisions themselves will not be anymore upgradeable than the G4 PBs have been (there is no space for a daughtercard, that is for sure)...as alluded to above, when the PB format changed from the Pismo/Lombard form factor to titanium...it was very cool and impressive, but performance wise, the same...I just fear everyone will be dissapointed after the wait...The G5 IS the future, we however, are still in the present...
...oh wait, what thread is this...
...as I said before all G5 at once...

 

[BruinJohn]

12" is a much better deal overall...

I have a 15" titanium 1 gig powerbook and everyday, I wish I would've gotten the 12". But the max speed at that time was 867. But if Apple comes out with an upgraded 12" soon, say in the next 2 months, I would sell my powerbook with extras for around 1900, get a 12" for say 1300 and use the 600 towards a nice lcd monitor. I think that's the best set up for college students overall. And regarding the Apple Cube, I think the 12" working as a desktop computer with an external monitor takes over as the next "cube" because its small enough and quiet enough.

 

[Zaty]

Thanks for all of your responses. After reading all the posts I have to admit that Apple might choose Option B. They could update the 12" soon and speed bump it to say 1.25 GHz while leaving the 15" and 17" untouched (perhaps dropping the prices) for the time being. Increasing the clockspeed of the 17" to 1.42 or even 1.5 GHz would hardly increase its performance. The same applies to the high-end 15". With the 12" running at 1.25 they could speed bump the 14" iBook to 1.25 and the 12" to 1 GHz without getting too close to the 12" PB. Next step would be the launch of the 17"in and the 15" either at WWDC in late June or at the Paris Expo on August 31. MWSF would finally bring the release of the 12" (or 13" widescreen) G5.

I just forgot they would have to speed bump the 15” Combo as well, which makes this plan a bit unlikely. But then, they could reduce its price and phase it out.

But who knows, Apple’s Engineers might already have found a way to put a G5 into the 12” although it’ s hard to imagine how they would do it right now.