Faulty 3.2 Ghz Harpertown - Apple Replacement Imminent - Question

[sound kev]

Hi everyone ,

I've been referencing this forum for a very long time but finally have a reason to ask your advice !

I purchased my 8 core / 3.2ghz Harpertown MP as an apple refurb in April of this year .
Initially i wasn't just pleased , i was down right ecstatic as it turned up with 16GB RAM , 1tb HD , Airport Extreme and 2x Super drives !

However , within a couple of weeks i started having problems with it randomly restarting/freezing .

to cut a long story short , since then i've tried everything suggested by the nice people at Tech Support to sort this out - to no avail .

So now i have an appointment at my local Apple Store for them to confirm that it's a hardware issue - in which case i have been told that i will be offered a 'new' replacement ... which leads me to my questions :

1. from what i can gather from reading the pages of this esteemed forum the Nehalems aren't a massive improvement (yet) on what i've already got .
I'm anticipating being offered an 09 2.66 Octo - would this be a fair swap or would i be better off asking for another 3.2 08 ?

2. as well endowed as my 3.2ghz 08 is - should i expect the same spec on the replacement (16gb ram/1tb hd/airport extreme/2x superdrives) or am i pushing my luck ?

thanks in advance - my appointment is tomorrow so i will report back with my experience

 

[bozz2006]

You should expect at least equivalent specs. If they offer you a 2.66 ghz 8 core, don't accept it. Your machine is top of the line spec, and anything less than that is not fair. And you should get two superdrives. And you should get at least 12 GB of RAM, if not 16 GB. When they replace a machine, it is supposed to be equivalent specs, and if they don't have the equivalent, the specs need to be rounded up, not down. That wouldn't be pushing your luck. Apple offering you less than the specs on your current machine would be Apple pushing their luck.

 

[Genghis Khan]

^ however, the superdrive, HDD and RAM were freebies that are not recorded anywhere...just lucky extras...apple will only replace what's on the receipt

so the receipt would say 3.2GHz octo, 2GB RAM, 320GB HDD, 1 x Superdrive
- if so, you can ask for a 2.93GHz Octo with standard specs

if the receipt includes the specs that you mentioned, you can expect...2.93GHz Octo, 16GB RAM (8x2GB), 1TB HDD, Airport Card and two Superdrives


in the case of the former being true, take out all of the RAM save 2 sticks, 1 superdrive and the airport card

 

[sound kev]

cheers for your input ^^^^

do you think if i argued that i'd actually purchased those extras myself , that would have a different bearing on the situation ?

 

[waiwai]

cheers for your input ^^^^

do you think if i argued that i'd actually purchased those extras myself , that would have a different bearing on the situation ?

dude that's just downright lieing. if you are anal about the extras. take them out yourself and then put them into your replacement.

 

[Billydelp4]

dude that's just downright lieing. if you are anal about the extras. take them out yourself and then put them into your replacement.

+1. don't lie. just keep the superdrive and the ram. you can sell 16gb of ram on ebay and for about what you will sell the old ram for you can purchase the new ram since it is cheaper.

be honest and it will pay you back 10 fold.

 

[Genghis Khan]

+1. don't lie. just keep the superdrive and the ram. you can sell 16gb of ram on ebay and for about what you will sell the old ram for you can purchase the new ram since it is cheaper.

be honest and it will pay you back 10 fold.

yet your condoning returning the pro not as he received it

and don't take out all 16GB...you need to leave 2 sticks in there cos otherwise they'll know you took RAM out

*but again, it depends what it says on the receipt

 

[nanofrog]

take them out yourself and then put them into your replacement.

Unfortunately, this isn't possible.

'08's uses FB-DIMM (Fully Buffered DDR2 ECC), and a PATA interface for the Superdrive.

The '09's use Unbuffered ECC DDR3 (DDR3 UDIMM's), and SATA ports exclusively.

But selling off the older parts (eBay, Craig's List,...) is a possibility, and the proceeds can be applied to upgrading the new machine. Less out of pocket this way.

 

[sound kev]

ha ha !

i had a feeling that would provoke a response like that from some people ,

slightly mischievous of me i admit

don't worry , i'll do the right thing and report back .

 

[Moriarty]

A 2.66 GHz 2009 Mac Pro would be faster because of the new Nehalem architecture. Even the new 2.26 GHz one is faster than the old 3.2 2008!

Of course if they try to give you a 2009 Mac Pro, act ignorant when they try to give you anything but the fastest 2.93 GHz one (which is WAY faster than the old 3.2) saying that you don't want a slower one with less GHz. If they insist on only giving a 2.26, well that's still a good deal, just make sure you get given 16GB of RAM and everything else the old one had.

Edit: Looks like Apple won't give you extra RAM for the replacement because it wasn't on the receipt. If it was me, I'd still try get a Nehalem Mac Pro. Take out all the extras Apple gave you and sell them, use that money to buy more RAM and things for the new one. You'll spend a little extra money, but get a noticeably faster computer as a result.

 

[hehejames]

ha ha !

i had a feeling that would provoke a response like that from some people ,

slightly mischievous of me i admit

don't worry , i'll do the right thing and report back .

I don't think you're getting a new machine. Keep dreaming!

You've mentioned your machine started having issues with freeze and etc., and have contacted tech support, but no fix. Well.... Have you tried reloading the OS?

Perhaps, one of the fan broke and your machine is overheating or perhaps you have a faulty ram.

Let me tell you something buddy. You ain't getting a new machine. No way in hell!

If there is a problem with the logic board, I'm sure Apple will replace it as part of the warranty and others as necessary, but I just don't understand why Apple would give you a Nehalem. Also, you bought a refurb 3.2 - if your machine was reallllly all that messed up, where Apple can't fix it you may get another refurb 3.2 unless they can't locate one.

 

[goMac]

I don't think you're getting a new machine. Keep dreaming!

They already told him he's getting a new machine...

 

[hehejames]

They already told him he's getting a new machine...

"So now i have an appointment at my local Apple Store for them to confirm that it's a hardware issue - in which case i have been told that i will be offered a 'new' replacement ..."

Only if in fact there is a significant problem and they admit the problem and/or it cannot be fixed, which I highly doubt. I'm smelling something on this dude/gal. ;-)

 

[G4DP]

A 2.66 GHz 2009 Mac Pro would be faster because of the new Nehalem architecture. Even the new 2.26 GHz one is faster than the old 3.2 2008!

Of course if they try to give you a 2009 Mac Pro, act ignorant when they try to give you anything but the fastest 2.93 GHz one (which is WAY faster than the old 3.2) saying that you don't want a slower one with less GHz. If they insist on only giving a 2.26, well that's still a good deal, just make sure you get given 16GB of RAM and everything else the old one had.

Edit: Looks like Apple won't give you extra RAM for the replacement because it wasn't on the receipt. If it was me, I'd still try get a Nehalem Mac Pro. Take out all the extras Apple gave you and sell them, use that money to buy more RAM and things for the new one. You'll spend a little extra money, but get a noticeably faster computer as a result.

I'm sorry, but that is rubbish. The 2009 2.26GHz is not faster than the 2008 3.2GHz. In fact it's only just faster than the 2008 2.8GHz. Having used both for the same jobs and running the same photoshop/illustrator tests, the 2008 model is still faster. If you believe the rubbish the rubbish that is Apple Marketing however, then you'll think the 2009 2.26GHz is better.

 

[hehejames]

I'm sorry, but that is rubbish. The 2009 2.26GHz is not faster than the 2008 3.2GHz. In fact it's only just faster than the 2008 2.8GHz. Having used both for the same jobs and running the same photoshop/illustrator tests, the 2008 model is still faster. If you believe the rubbish the rubbish that is Apple Marketing however, then you'll think the 2009 2.26GHz is better.

"Moriarty" is just jealous cause he/she doesn't own a MP and can only speak on behalf of the Apple's marketing materials

 

[goMac]

"So now i have an appointment at my local Apple Store for them to confirm that it's a hardware issue - in which case i have been told that i will be offered a 'new' replacement ..."

Only if in fact there is a significant problem and they admit the problem and/or it cannot be fixed, which I highly doubt. I'm smelling something on this dude/gal. ;-)

The Apple Store likely does not stock Mac Pro parts. It's a judgement call on the part of the Apple Store, but I've heard of similar things happening. They may just want to give him a new one instead of sending it back in. It might be cheaper for them to just part the machine and give him a new one than it would be to repair.

 

[hehejames]

The Apple Store likely does not stock Mac Pro parts. It's a judgement call on the part of the Apple Store, but I've heard of similar things happening. They may just want to give him a new one instead of sending it back in. It might be cheaper for them to just part the machine and give him a new one than it would be to repair.

You are absolutely right. The apple store does not stock parts therefore they make you leave the machine with them while the necessary parts are ordered and replaced/tested. If whatever part(s) that has been replaced doesn't correct the problem, they make you come back and the whole fiasco starts...

My brother went through a bitch fight with Apple support & store and I have been exposed to the process. People get new machines in extreme cases!

 

[nanofrog]

My brother went through a bitch fight with Apple support & store and I have been exposed to the process. People get new machines in extreme cases!

I've gotten the impression it's a mixed bag, as it depends on the store and it's staff.

YMMV?

 

[Shake 'n' Bake]

A 2.66 GHz 2009 Mac Pro would be faster because of the new Nehalem architecture. Even the new 2.26 GHz one is faster than the old 3.2 2008!

Of course if they try to give you a 2009 Mac Pro, act ignorant when they try to give you anything but the fastest 2.93 GHz one (which is WAY faster than the old 3.2) saying that you don't want a slower one with less GHz. If they insist on only giving a 2.26, well that's still a good deal, just make sure you get given 16GB of RAM and everything else the old one had.

Edit: Looks like Apple won't give you extra RAM for the replacement because it wasn't on the receipt. If it was me, I'd still try get a Nehalem Mac Pro. Take out all the extras Apple gave you and sell them, use that money to buy more RAM and things for the new one. You'll spend a little extra money, but get a noticeably faster computer as a result.

Absolutely wrong. Sure it is Nahalem, but that doesn't mean it is faster. Most apps these days can't even take advantage of multiple cores anyways. And don't forget that 3.2 GHz is almost a whole GHz more than 2.26 GHz. There will be a hugely noticeable difference between 2.26 GHz and 3.2 GHz.

 

[galstaph]

I'm sorry, but that is rubbish. The 2009 2.26GHz is not faster than the 2008 3.2GHz. In fact it's only just faster than the 2008 2.8GHz...

Actually it depends on the app, for most apps yes, however, if you are running an app that is extremely CPU/thread intensive (i.e. 3d photorealistic rendering such as maxwell render) the 2.26 IS faster than a 3.2 due to the hyperthreading

 

[Tesselator]

I'm sorry, but that is rubbish. The 2009 2.26GHz is not faster than the 2008 3.2GHz. In fact it's only just faster than the 2008 2.8GHz. Having used both for the same jobs and running the same photoshop/illustrator tests, the 2008 model is still faster. If you believe the rubbish the rubbish that is Apple Marketing however, then you'll think the 2009 2.26GHz is better.

Only in some odd tests - maybe. My 2006 2.66 octad kicks the 2.26's ass at many things and the 2.8 kicks my ass at almost everything. The 2.26 is a bastard step-child who only claims heir to the thrown.

Anyway to match his hardware Apple must offer either the same machine, or the 2.93 octad. Nothing else works.

His 3.2 is faster than the 2.93 at many things as it is now. Of course the 2.93 is a little faster at some other things too.

And, if they offer a 2.93 (as the SHOULD!) then let then have their ram back. Don't try and keep it at all. That ain't no good. If they don't offer you a 2.93 then pay a repair shop to repair it - it's WAY WAY WAY better than the 2.66 octad!

 

[Genghis Khan]

Harpertown vs. Nehalem

The old Harpertowns are still faster at single threaded tasks for the most part. However the hyperthreading in the Nehalem's makes them much faster at multi-threaded tasks such as 3d rendering.

It all depends on what you use it for...

 

[Tesselator]

I found it has a lot to do with GT saturation levels. In both MT and ST applications the lower the saturation that faster the 2008 is over the 2009 - probably due to the core clocks. There's some alpha margin as the cache is faster and more efficient in the Nehalems but this would generally otherwise tend to make sense as Turbo Mode wouldn't be engaged and the cache I/O wouldn't be stressed (the two features that make the Nehalems faster). Since most software doesn't saturate the cores this means that the 2008 is still faster with said (most) software when there is a clock advantage such as 2.8 vs. 2.66. The two machines end up averaging out to be very very close to each other performance wise - all other things being equal. So should it be so with the '08 3.2 vs. '09 2.93 models.

 

[hehejames]

don't worry , i'll do the right thing and report back .

So what's the scoop? It's been a day already.

 

[sound kev]

first of all , thanks for the advice everyone .

i don't see what i would have to gain by coming on here and concocting a story though (mr/ms hehejames) strange person .

as i stated in my original post - the unit i purchased back in April has NEVER worked properly . I have spent the last 3 months working my way through the good people at Tech Support , so um .. let me tell YOU something buddy ... doing a fresh install of the OS was something i did very early on

i've never had a problem like this with any of my Macs (and i've many since my first G3) so i don't know what the drill is regarding replacement of faulty units .
all i know is - i paid a considerable amount of money for a machine that has never worked ... and that is totally unacceptable to me .

I am a business user - so this has been a huge inconvenience to me .
I have had to revert to working on my MBP , which doesn't really look good to clients ... but neither does a computer that spontaneously switches itself off during a session !
my productivity has suffered , not to mention the many hours spent on the phone to Tech Support etc etc .

I would settle for just a working version of what i paid for - but as i said in my original post - i was told (after being transferred from Tech Support to Customer Relations) that if it was found to be a hardware issue i would be given a new replacement .

This seems reasonable to me .
If i cocked up on a job for someone i would go out of my way to make it up to them - it's just good business practice isn't it ?

anyway - i should know more in the next few days .

thanks