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In the US, no cable company has a monopoly. Period. End of discussion. Just because you only have one choice does NOT mean that there is a government supported monopoly. It may well mean that the market will not support additional choices due to cost. I'd guess you won't find a Bass Pro Shops in the middle of the Sahara Desert. Does that mean that if somebody sets up a one room fishing store there that they have a monopoly? No. It means nobody else is stupid enough to invest money when the return on investment makes no sense. Why don't you have 10 internet providers in a municipality? Because the cost to deliver does not financially support it. Period.

You can play around with the definition of monopoly, but many areas are under an effective monopoly. Why? Any number of reasons:

  • the dominate cable company in any given region was, years ago, given right-of-way access to lay down their cable or construct poles to run their cable.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region was, years ago, given tax breaks to build their infrastructure.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region is under no obligation to share or lease its infrastructure to others.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region is now large enough that it could drop prices low enough to run any DSL provider out of business.
 
You can play around with the definition of monopoly, but many areas are under an effective monopoly. Why? Any number of reasons:

  • the dominate cable company in any given region was, years ago, given right-of-way access to lay down their cable or construct poles to run their cable.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region was, years ago, given tax breaks to build their infrastructure.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region is under no obligation to share or lease its infrastructure to others.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region is now large enough that it could drop prices low enough to run any DSL provider out of business.
That's how business works...the guys willing to invest and take the risk are the ones who end up making all the money...If I was in their position I would be fighting tooth and nail to keep my hold on the industry. Where I live I have more than one provider so I can't complain about there not being competition.
 
It's because those boxes are exempt from energy efficiency standards like all other electronics and appliances. That's largely the reason so many pay tv STBs suck.

If the FCC forced all STB manufacturers to energy efficiency compliance. Right now these energy hogs drain more electricity than a fridge.

And yet another false and inaccurate statement.

DVRs are the real energy hogs, and many DVRs are categorized as "STBs".

What is the major consumption of energy for DVRs?

Hard drives.

Why are the hard drives spinning rather than "going to sleep"?

Because customers want them to buffer, record at odd hours, and (as an example with Tivo) record "Suggestions".

Why not have "Energy Saving" modes?

Many do - and most customers turn that mode off.

Do STBs consume "more electricity than a fridge"?

No. At best, the worst of them consume about 50% of the consumption of a refrigerator.

Are the providers ignoring this?

No. At this point, more than 89% of new deployed devices meet more stringent energy standards.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=20172
[doublepost=1453993720][/doublepost]
You can play around with the definition of monopoly, but many areas are under an effective monopoly. Why? Any number of reasons:

  • the dominate cable company in any given region was, years ago, given right-of-way access to lay down their cable or construct poles to run their cable.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region was, years ago, given tax breaks to build their infrastructure.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region is under no obligation to share or lease its infrastructure to others.
  • the dominate cable company in any given region is now large enough that it could drop prices low enough to run any DSL provider out of business.

Utter, preposterous BS.

1) No "Dominate" (I think you mean dominant) cable company was given "right of way access" unique to anyone else. That right of way exists and can/will be granted to any other utility. It's the law, pal.

2) Pretty much all kinds of businesses were given tax breaks to build. And to maintain. And guess what? So would a new player. In my area for example, there is both Comcast (formerly Adelphia) and Verizon. And - yup - both have had tax breaks. Try again.

3) What "infrastructure" should a cable company be "forced" or "obligated to share or lease? That makes zero sense. Unless you believe in communism. I don't.

4) In terms of pricing, there is this think called "Anti-Trust" and "Anti-Monopolistic" behavior. As in, there are laws. So if you're talking in general, BS. If you're talking about "DSL" (which I have absolutely NO idea why you would specify that) then your argument is frankly even more ridiculous.
 
Utter BS. It's this kind of argument that exposes the mentality where people either don't understand the issue, or the "me generation" attitude of "I want it so I have a right to it" is given priority over everything.

People keeping making statements like "monopoly" and how "net neutrality is no different than what deregulation did to electricity utilities - both of which are some of the most inaccurate and dumb comments I've ever heard around technology.

In the US, no cable company has a monopoly. Period. End of discussion. Just because you only have one choice does NOT mean that there is a government supported monopoly. It may well mean that the market will not support additional choices due to cost. I'd guess you won't find a Bass Pro Shops in the middle of the Sahara Desert. Does that mean that if somebody sets up a one room fishing store there that they have a monopoly? No. It means nobody else is stupid enough to invest money when the return on investment makes no sense. Why don't you have 10 internet providers in a municipality? Because the cost to deliver does not financially support it. Period.

Cable and associated Internet is exactly the same. Forcing MSOs to provide "open internet" like it was "electricity" for anybody to sell is ridiculous. Comparing the two is like comparing a school bus to the price of rice. No relationship whatsoever. Splitting electricity transmission and distribution from supply did NOTHING except allow for trading of electricity - which a universal commodity. There is no "quality" of electricity. There is only quality of electricity transmission and distribution. When you change electricity suppliers you're not getting different electrons. You're getting the same friggin electricity produced from the same friggin generation plant you always did. The only difference is that back on the trading floors (taking a little liberty here) electricity supply is being traded and money got moved from one pile to another. In other words, what your local power company actually delivers IS NOT A DAMN BIT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY EVER DID. That is, with the exception of what state and federal governments have imposed from a regulatory perspective- but guess what? Who pays for that? You do. The consumer. By law, all of those regulatory imposed investments are passed along to the consumer. Directly. Which quite frankly has had the effect of over-capitalization of utilities, because they not only get reimbursed, but by law actually earn a profit on capital investment. How exactly does that lower consumer cost? Hmmmmmm.....

Try that with Internet. With network services. They in fact DO have quality measures, and differentiation in service and features. Not at ALL like electricity as a utility. Those supporting "separating the pipe from the content" speak as if this will lower costs to the consumer, increase competition, and increase quality. Please provide details - and I mean technical details - as to how. The only technical means I can determine to even ATTEMPT to separate pipe from content would be to have every internet provider use private networks over existing pipes, allowing the cable MSOs to effectively function as utility transmission/distribution, and have the actual "Internet providers" operate private networks over that infrastructure. But even if you could do that (which frankly has extensive complexity and downside from the carrier perspective) you subsequently reduce capacity due to overhead, and increase costs.

I frankly can't stand the MSOs. I'm one of their biggest critics. But I'm not a hypocrite, and I understand the industry. I want to hold them accountable, but "Net Neutrality" is a joke. And this constant barrage of people claiming "monopoly" are IMHO just examples of how some people are exposing a lack of comprehension of the product. There is a fundamental trend where people don't like something, and demand government intervention to force private commerce to deliver it - which usually results in lowered quality at higher costs.

Would you support local municipalities offering broadband/pay tv services to compete with the established cable provider?

What would you say if I told you that in every such proposal, the incumbent cable company tried to block it. Why would they not welcome competition since we live in a free market system?????
 
It's because those boxes are exempt from energy efficiency standards like all other electronics and appliances. That's largely the reason so many pay tv STBs suck.

If the FCC forced all STB manufacturers to energy efficiency compliance. Right now these energy hogs drain more electricity than a fridge.

And yet another false and inaccurate statement.

DVRs are the real energy hogs, and many DVRs are categorized as "STBs".

What is the major consumption of energy for DVRs?

Hard drives.

Why are the hard drives spinning rather than "going to sleep"?

Because customers want them to buffer, record at odd hours, and (as an example with Tivo) record "Suggestions".

Why not have "Energy Saving" modes?

Many do - and most customers turn that mode off.

Do STBs consume "more electricity than a fridge"?

No. At best, the worst of them consume about 50% of the consumption of a refrigerator.

Are the providers ignoring this?

No. At this point, more than 89% of new deployed devices meet more stringent energy standards.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=20172
[doublepost=1453993720][/doublepost]

Utter, preposterous BS.

1) No "Dominate" (I think you mean dominant) cable company was given "right of way access" unique to anyone else. That right of way exists and can/will be granted to any other utility. It's the law, pal.

2) Pretty much all kinds of businesses were given tax breaks to build. And to maintain. And guess what? So would a new player. In my area for example, there is both Comcast (formerly Adelphia) and Verizon. And - yup - both have had tax breaks. Try again.

3) What "infrastructure" should a cable company be "forced" or "obligated to share or lease? That makes zero sense. Unless you believe in communism. I don't.

4) In terms of pricing, there is this think called "Anti-Trust" and "Anti-Monopolistic" behavior. As in, there are laws. So if you're talking in general, BS. If you're talking about "DSL" (which I have absolutely NO idea why you would specify that) then your argument is frankly even more ridiculous.
I wonder if the energy usage would be better with SSDs vs spinning disks.
[doublepost=1453993869][/doublepost]So is this supposed to be the US version of IPTV?
 
Yes, Because leaving businesses alone and trust they won't do very bad things. And then try to block or hide those deeds has worked so well.

Actually, leaving business alone has worked well. You might want to consider what options and services are available to consumers in the US overall (not just in this particular subject area) compared to the rest of the world.

And BTW, your argument is also false. This is not a polar opposite discussion. It's not about either regulating the heck out of providers versus giving them no rules. They have been regulated for decades. This is about "reasonably" regulating them versus confiscating their assets. You seem to be of the mind that federal confiscation and seizure of private assets is reasonable so long as it serves your own interests. I am of the opinion that if that's the case, let's start with your assets.
[doublepost=1453994001][/doublepost]
Would you support local municipalities offering broadband/pay tv services to compete with the established cable provider?

What would you say if I told you that in every such proposal, the incumbent cable company tried to block it. Why would they not welcome competition since we live in a free market system?????

Yet another false statement. If you told me that in ever such proposal this happened I would call you a dishonest person.

Let me be more clear. I know for example of at least one situation where this did NOT happen. However, the municipality chose to not continue based on cost versus benefit.
[doublepost=1453994067][/doublepost]
I wonder if the energy usage would be better with SSDs vs spinning disks.
[doublepost=1453993869][/doublepost]So is this supposed to be the US version of IPTV?

It would most certainly be better with SSDs. However, the cost factor then enters the equation. My Tivo Roamio Pros have multi terabyte drives in them, which are prohibitively expensive. Therefore, consumers will (and do) refuse to pay the premium.
 
The FCC needs to stay out of this. I hate the cable companies but it seems whenever we see one of these mandates things just get even more screwed up.
Agreed. Everyone cries how the government sucks at everything they do, yet they want the government to do more. And seriously, with all the issues we have going on in this country and in the world, high cable bills are somehow top priority?
 
Actually, to be honest, this entire debate is ridiculous. Cord Cutting is already taking the teeth bit by bit away from cable companies. While it used to be very rare, cord cutting is becoming pretty common now - though hardly prominent. But, the pace at which it has increased is getting faster, and markets are responding. The argument about "set top boxes" is getting almost to the point where it's like a discussion about whether or not we should force cable companies to provide us free Beta AND VHS tapes. It just does not matter. Tivo struggles to stay alive, and frankly is only still a business because they've licensed their software to many cable companies (mostly internationally). Their "consumer" products have lost money for years, and can't sustain the business. So how exactly does making their product effectively easier for others to get into the market somehow make them more viable? Or promote "competition"? Hmmmm......

We also in this country LOVE to compare our "broadband" infrastructure to other countries. As in, other countries where the entire country is smaller than one state in the US. And where 75% of the population of that country lives concentrated in one area. The vast expanses and distances in the US make deployment much more difficult and expensive. You ever wonder what consumer broadband is available in the middle of rural Russia?

What bothers me is that there just might be enough self centered and uneducated people demanding their politicians do something that we could end up with regulation that actually increases cost, decreases quality and performance - and then those same people will again blame "big business" or somebody (but themselves) for the impact.
[doublepost=1453986117][/doublepost]

Again, BS. Please provide data that suggests that "while set top boxes returned will see lost revenue, it will be balanced out "kinda" by cable subscriptions".

And if you're comparing this to the difference between buying (or renting) a movie versus stealing it, that speaks volumes. Are you suggesting that people should feel free to steal content? That the movie industry is a "not for profit" industry?

If so, please post your street address, because we should all then feel free to stop over and steal whatever we like from you.
[doublepost=1453986608][/doublepost]

Actually, you should read the argument yourself. First of all, the (dated) commentary (written in 2011) is clearly biased toward one side. But once you really start reading it, and get about 2/3 down, you start to see the differences. The largest one is in fact size - or more accurately - RURAL impact. The author discounts this by saying that between DC and Boston, there are heavy concentrations of residents. Yes, that's true. And not so coincidentally - that is ALSO where you see the heaviest concentration of existing fiber build-outs in the US. But what does it NOT address. How about that region from Columbus Ohio across the MidWest. This approach would effectively abandon investment in those areas.

So, as mentioned, going down this path might help some people, but at a severe impact to others. All the while by seizing assets that private companies invested in. And let's get this a little closer to the mark as well. Those private companies? Guess what? They are institutional investments that the majority of the US has 401K/retirement interest in - so asset seizure negatively impacts their retirement just to start.

A simplistic argument to just "get what you want at any cost" has real ramifications.

You admit that it isn't so "technically impossible", yes it is dated but the same rules apply today in the EU, I would imagine service expanded in that time not contracted. So you would argue that we stand a better chance without the deregulation which worked both in the telephone and utility industries and that we should leave local cable monopolies in place in order to drive down prices? The straw man argument is the "cord cutter" argument. Since it is true that even if you cut the cord, you are still tied to your cable company for internet and eventually if enough customers cut the cord, the local cable monopolies will simply raise your Internet prices or put caps in place to make up the revenue. By forcing more competition, they can't simply do that because they have to worry about competition. In the case of the phone company the Gov't didn't seize assets, they simply made a rule that you have to allow other providers to lease your lines at a reasonable rate. As far as the sanctity of private assets of corporations, give me a break, that certainly wasn't on their minds in 2007 when they went to DC to ask for a Gov't bailout. I wouldn't worry, the industry lobby in DC is very powerful and would do anything to prevent that from happening, your 401K is safe.
 
This is a prime example of how screwed up our government is. The government allowed these mega cable company mergers to create geographic monopolies (yes, it's a monopoly, try getting a satellite in San Francisco or New York or Chicago high-rises, it's cable or nothing). They allow them based on the cable companies making promises to not raise rates or degrade service. Then when the monopolistic mergers go through, the FCC who approved the merger to begin with all of a sudden is interested in introducing regulation to fight what they themselves approved. But by this time, the cable companies are so big and have so much money their lobbyist machine buys their way into the government hush club.

It's really so screwed up. All I can say is thank god the DOJ didn't allow TMO and ATT to merge, because had they, we'd have a cellular industry that looks just like the cable TV industry.

No, *our* government, notably the FCC, did no such thing. *YOUR* local government did because selling a franchise right within their borders is a cash cow and they (we the people, in actuality) own the telephone poles which provide an avenue to string lines on. Further beyond that, apartment buildings further sell rights to their building... because it's a cash cow.

Beyond that, it's also cheaper to have but 1 set of lines on those poles... rather than 50. Cost of buildout multiplied multiple times is counter-intuitive to wanting lower prices when in the hands of a private company... someone has to pay for the cable, and with less people to share that cost, the buyer pays a higher rate.
 
All this nonsense makes you wonder why anybody cares about TV to begin with. It truly is becoming an idiot box.

There will always be garbage entertainment in any form. But you can make a strong argument that there is a bigger collection of quality programming now than there has ever been.
[doublepost=1453996057][/doublepost]
Make the subscriptions less expensive with more selection and you'll get more subscribers.

And you'll see your internet bill rise dramatically. They're not just going to give away revenue streams.
 
Actually, leaving business alone has worked well. You might want to consider what options and services are available to consumers in the US overall (not just in this particular subject area) compared to the rest of the world.

And BTW, your argument is also false. This is not a polar opposite discussion. It's not about either regulating the heck out of providers versus giving them no rules. They have been regulated for decades. This is about "reasonably" regulating them versus confiscating their assets. You seem to be of the mind that federal confiscation and seizure of private assets is reasonable so long as it serves your own interests. I am of the opinion that if that's the case, let's start with your assets.
[doublepost=1453994001][/doublepost]

Yet another false statement. If you told me that in ever such proposal this happened I would call you a dishonest person.

Let me be more clear. I know for example of at least one situation where this did NOT happen. However, the municipality chose to not continue based on cost versus benefit.
[doublepost=1453994067][/doublepost]

It would most certainly be better with SSDs. However, the cost factor then enters the equation. My Tivo Roamio Pros have multi terabyte drives in them, which are prohibitively expensive. Therefore, consumers will (and do) refuse to pay the premium.

I stand corrected on STBs... I was going with old data.

I am not for confusing or over regulations. BUT our history is rife with examples of companies lobbying doing very bad things where lax regulation existed. And sometimes those regulations were lobbied for by said industry.

I am happy to hear in one case you know the local manicipality decided against competing. I know where I lived Optimum tried their best to block Verizon from installing Fios. Thank God they lost because service and customer support suddenly improved for existing cable customers
 
Good cable companies are the devil with all those box fees. Verizon was completely deatroying me with add on fees so I switched back to Comcast. Comcast sucks but since we switched from Verizon it's over $100 less a month for more channels than we got from Verizon atleast for the next years after this contract I'll switch back to Verizon if they offer a similar deal......unless something changes by then

Must be nice having a choice. Most people don't.
[doublepost=1453996617][/doublepost]
Hopefully they'll open up Apple's walled garden so OSX, iOS and all the apps are available to use on any platform. Why allow Apple to make all the money?

Seriously? You don't get the difference between a company one chooses to buy into (i.e. your 'closed garden') and one where you have no choice? And apps can run whatever platform they want. That's up to the developers. Talk to them, not Apple.
 
And yet another false and inaccurate statement.

DVRs are the real energy hogs, and many DVRs are categorized as "STBs".

What is the major consumption of energy for DVRs?

Hard drives.

Why are the hard drives spinning rather than "going to sleep"?

Because customers want them to buffer, record at odd hours, and (as an example with Tivo) record "Suggestions".

Why not have "Energy Saving" modes?

Many do - and most customers turn that mode off.

Do STBs consume "more electricity than a fridge"?

No. At best, the worst of them consume about 50% of the consumption of a refrigerator.

Are the providers ignoring this?

No. At this point, more than 89% of new deployed devices meet more stringent energy standards.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=20172
[doublepost=1453993720][/doublepost]

Utter, preposterous BS.

1) No "Dominate" (I think you mean dominant) cable company was given "right of way access" unique to anyone else. That right of way exists and can/will be granted to any other utility. It's the law, pal.

2) Pretty much all kinds of businesses were given tax breaks to build. And to maintain. And guess what? So would a new player. In my area for example, there is both Comcast (formerly Adelphia) and Verizon. And - yup - both have had tax breaks. Try again.

3) What "infrastructure" should a cable company be "forced" or "obligated to share or lease? That makes zero sense. Unless you believe in communism. I don't.

4) In terms of pricing, there is this think called "Anti-Trust" and "Anti-Monopolistic" behavior. As in, there are laws. So if you're talking in general, BS. If you're talking about "DSL" (which I have absolutely NO idea why you would specify that) then your argument is frankly even more ridiculous.

Please, pardon my typo.

My point is that there is very little competition for broadband internet in most of the country. I'm glad that you have the choice between two good providers, but most do not.

So, I will ask you...why is there little competition? Maybe you can offer some insight on the topic that I have heretofore been ignorant of.

You asked, "what "infrastructure" should a cable company be "forced" or "obligated to share or lease?"

I mentioned it because in the USA, some utilities are required to do so. Land line telephones, for example. And in some areas electric companies are as well. Also, in much of Europe this is a common practice. If cable companies had to offer this, for some sort of reasonable access fee, internet choice would increase and prices would be driven down. Again, it is a common practice in the USA for certain types of utilities and common in Europe for internet access.

You also state "pretty much all kinds of businesses were given tax breaks to build. And to maintain. And guess what? So would a new player. In my area for example, there is both Comcast (formerly Adelphia) and Verizon. And - yup - both have had tax breaks. Try again."

All I can say is that it seems unlikely that most suburban areas or "metro-areas" would be in the financial position to extend tax breaks and incentives today.

Regarding ""Anti-Trust" and "Anti-Monopolistic" behavior" laws, such price measures/pricing tactics that I mentioned would not likely fall within those definitions. It is similar to cell phone service pricing, in that those parties are free to charge as much as they want. And those companies do try to compete on price, making one company more attractive to users with regard to price, with the eventual goal of making the other provider(s) less attractive and thus, putting them out of business.

Additionally, and more to the topic, the recent FCC proposal will at least inject some serious competition in the STB business and force the cable companies to innovate, or at least keep up.
[doublepost=1453997055][/doublepost]
That's how business works...the guys willing to invest and take the risk are the ones who end up making all the money...If I was in their position I would be fighting tooth and nail to keep my hold on the industry. Where I live I have more than one provider so I can't complain about there not being competition.

Yes, however, when "the guys willing to invest and take the risk" did so, they had the luxury of tax breaks and exclusive contracts with cities to be their sole provider. There was far less risk then , and now new company would face increased risk and would haver to compete with an large, established player to boot.
 
The more I read this thread the more it feels like people are just vilifying the cable companies simply because they created an industry and want to keep their industry profitable. There are many threads where people basically make statements about wanting to pay less than $40 a month for TV.
With that in mind I am starting to think that it's just that some people think they are over paying no matter what the amount is.
 
Got a trial of Sling. Channel selection and interface sucks, at least on xbox one. Not gonna subscribe past trial. Maybe if they add support to TIVO boxes with DVR capability, I'd consider subscribing, but as it stands, blah.

From what I've read, since I'm quite interested in this shift myself... the xbox one app is trash. If that's your only avenue currently to get it, you're out of luck... but even still, it sounds like they need to stretch their legs quite a bit on other platforms as well, but none are as panned as the XBO app seem to be.
 
*YOUR* local government did because selling a franchise right within their borders is a cash cow and they (we the people, in actuality) own the telephone poles which provide an avenue to string lines on. Further beyond that, apartment buildings further sell rights to their building... because it's a cash cow.

Franchise fees are not exactly a cash cow. You are capped at 50 cents per subscriber as a license fee that can be used by town for general expenses. There's a separate franchise fee capped at 5% of television (not phone or internet) revenues, but that has to be used for PEG (Public ie Wayne's World/Education ie the local high school assembly/Government ie committee meetings and such) channels. You can't use that money to build a new park or hire a new teacher or buy a police car.

Apartment buildings and condo associations at one point could block access to local cable companies in favor of their own private video or offer exclusive deals, but that was banned in 2007.

Also, municipalities don't own the poles. That's the electric and/or phone company.
 
You admit that it isn't so "technically impossible", yes it is dated but the same rules apply today in the EU, I would imagine service expanded in that time not contracted. So you would argue that we stand a better chance without the deregulation which worked both in the telephone and utility industries and that we should leave local cable monopolies in place in order to drive down prices? The straw man argument is the "cord cutter" argument. Since it is true that even if you cut the cord, you are still tied to your cable company for internet and eventually if enough customers cut the cord, the local cable monopolies will simply raise your Internet prices or put caps in place to make up the revenue. By forcing more competition, they can't simply do that because they have to worry about competition. In the case of the phone company the Gov't didn't seize assets, they simply made a rule that you have to allow other providers to lease your lines at a reasonable rate. As far as the sanctity of private assets of corporations, give me a break, that certainly wasn't on their minds in 2007 when they went to DC to ask for a Gov't bailout. I wouldn't worry, the industry lobby in DC is very powerful and would do anything to prevent that from happening, your 401K is safe.

Almost nothing is "technically impossible". I could embed an HDTV, GPS, Digital Multimeter, IR Temperature Probe, Cell phone, GPS, and toothbrush in my watch. Would it make sense? Would the "cost" be worth the "service"? No and No.

You again inaccurately and at this point I can only say deliberately misrepresenting "monopoly" when in fact we have discounted that as being a total lie.

If enough customer "cut the cord" and you also force "net neutrality" those same carriers can simply raise their "carrier cost" - which you have to pay on TOP of the internet provider (just like you do with electricity, since you love to use that false analogy).

The phone company explanation is equally false, as analog services are not subject to the same capacity issues as are data services, and frankly seizure of an asset is simply seizure of an asset. Period. Don't believe me? Guess what - the providers were forced BY LAW to list and treat that infrastructure that they built out as assets.

I will give you no break. If you want to bias this discussion by bringing up who got what in a bailout (that I did not support personally) in 2007, you're turning bad analogies and false information to just plain idiocy. The FACTS are that the providers are publicly traded entities. They are institutional properties. So whether you like it or not (and I could not care less if you do or do not) the FACT is that financial performance results in share value. Share value results in portfolio changes, which affect 401K accounts. So, if you strip financial projections and market cap on an institutional asset, you reduce the value of 401k portfolios. Period. End of discussion. You have absolutely not the slightest ability to change this - no matter how socialistic your own preferences are.
[doublepost=1453999712][/doublepost]
I stand corrected on STBs... I was going with old data.

I am not for confusing or over regulations. BUT our history is rife with examples of companies lobbying doing very bad things where lax regulation existed. And sometimes those regulations were lobbied for by said industry.

I am happy to hear in one case you know the local manicipality decided against competing. I know where I lived Optimum tried their best to block Verizon from installing Fios. Thank God they lost because service and customer support suddenly improved for existing cable customers

History is rife with examples of good and bad. However, you made a statement about how EVERY time something happens, something else happens. That was untrue. In one location one thing happened. In another location something else happened. That is hardly an excuse for increasing regulation. This is coming from a person who sees first hand exactly how increased regulation is today - this very minute - increasing the cost to the consumer for no apparent value or increased service whatsoever.

BTW, wherever you live, if "optimum tried their best to block Verizon" I have no idea exactly how they could even possibly be successful. No provider - period - under any circumstance - has ANY ability to block another provider. It is - and has been - illegal for a long time now.
[doublepost=1454000277][/doublepost]
No, *our* government, notably the FCC, did no such thing. *YOUR* local government did because selling a franchise right within their borders is a cash cow and they (we the people, in actuality) own the telephone poles which provide an avenue to string lines on. Further beyond that, apartment buildings further sell rights to their building... because it's a cash cow.

Beyond that, it's also cheaper to have but 1 set of lines on those poles... rather than 50. Cost of buildout multiplied multiple times is counter-intuitive to wanting lower prices when in the hands of a private company... someone has to pay for the cable, and with less people to share that cost, the buyer pays a higher rate.

Yet another false statement. It is amazing to me how much BS people seem to believe.

1) A local government (municipality) does not "Sell" a Franchise Right. The agree to terms on a Franchise Agreement. Franchise Agreements are by federal law non-exclusive since 1996.

2) Franchise Agreements are NOT "Cash Cows". They are simply a percentage of federally specified products and services that can be assessed a fee that is paid to the municipality. It is typically a small percentage - between 3-5%. More importantly, that fee is paid by (wait for it) the CONSUMER. All the provider does is COLLECT the fee. Then they pass the fee along to the consumer. And guess what? Whether there are 1, 2 or 10 providers, the total amount of fees in that municipality is exactly the same percentage.

3) You the people do NOT own the telephone poles. The Telephone company and the Electric Utility company own those poles. You own the right of way where the poles are installed, just like you own the right of way where there are roads, sewer lines, gas lines, etc. But you don't own the gas lines, you don't own all kinds of things. You don't pay for the poles, you don't replace the poles, you don't maintain the poles.

4) It's also cheaper to have one airplane fly from NY to Boston than two different carriers at the same time. Do you want to regulate that also, to try and make it "cheaper for the consumer"? Where does your rampant disregard for private property and private business end? Where is the line where your own desires aren't allowed to impact everyone else?

5) It costs money to deliver ANY service. Your argument about how it's cheaper to string one wire than 50 can be applied to almost any service in existence.

What I'm reading is pure socialistic - if not actually communistic - behavior.
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Yes, however, when "the guys willing to invest and take the risk" did so, they had the luxury of tax breaks and exclusive contracts with cities to be their sole provider. There was far less risk then , and now new company would face increased risk and would haver to compete with an large, established player to boot.

Are you friggin kidding me? You're saying that there was "far less risk" when Verizon rolled out FIOS? REALLY?
 
Franchise fees are not exactly a cash cow. You are capped at 50 cents per subscriber as a license fee that can be used by town for general expenses. There's a separate franchise fee capped at 5% of television (not phone or internet) revenues, but that has to be used for PEG (Public ie Wayne's World/Education ie the local high school assembly/Government ie committee meetings and such) channels. You can't use that money to build a new park or hire a new teacher or buy a police car.

Apartment buildings and condo associations at one point could block access to local cable companies in favor of their own private video or offer exclusive deals, but that was banned in 2007.

Also, municipalities don't own the poles. That's the electric and/or phone company.

Well, in my neck of the woods, the power company owns only the poles that have the cross-beam carrying primary lines, and poles with step-down transformers... and they've got metal badges and numbers on them. Going down the streets not so much.

On the other stuff... the exclusivity of the deal doesn't matter. Town governments, HOAs, Apartment buildings are selling access into the spheres they control. To combat this, some players - like Verizon before they abandoned FiOS - were seeking statewide franchise agreements and going above each town government. IPTV is likely the best avenue from here forward, with Title II now being applied to internet services. I equate this to electricity deregulation... there's still *a lot* of money to be had for the electric company that actually owns the wires, electricity, delivery mechanism and sometimes even the production.
 
Are you friggin kidding me? You're saying that there was "far less risk" when Verizon rolled out FIOS? REALLY?

Just the opposite.

When Verizon rolled out FIOS, they were not the first provider to the area. They had more risk than the first provider, as I'm assuming the first provider had tax breaks, exclusive contracts, etc. that FIOS did not.
 
Please, pardon my typo.

My point is that there is very little competition for broadband internet in most of the country. I'm glad that you have the choice between two good providers, but most do not.

So, I will ask you...why is there little competition? Maybe you can offer some insight on the topic that I have heretofore been ignorant of.

There is IMHO so little competition because of the return on investment.

1) People don't want to pay much. In our current - and growing (as evidenced by this thread to be honest) "entitlement culture", in the US people want products that are Free, that are Perfect, and that are delivered Yesterday. Business is a "bad word". Profit is a "bad word". But frankly, people are too stupid to recognize that without either one, they're living in a commune in a third world country, using home made Sterno to heat their cardboard box house.

2) We in the US had far more copper POTS infrastructure than many other places, which meant that in many cases we were leapfrogged by less mature (in terms of technology) geographies.

3) Our current regulatory environment is ultra-horrible in terms of promoting growth and development.

4) Our geography is MASSIVELY different than many other countries in terms of both scale, and scope.

Those are just a few. I personally wish there was more competition. Even in my area. I simply recognize that many of the "demands" posted here would have the opposite effect. Just because I don't like something, I don't make it either Evil or ignore it.
 
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Well, it is time to bitch slap the entire cable industry and tell them to compete or get out of the way. Holding on to 40 year old technology and subscription schemes isn't going to cut it anymore. There is no reason for companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, or any of the new tech giants to not offer "skinny" content services over their own box vs the proprietary box and cable coming to people's homes. We need to get rid of the "old" cable delivery and move to Internet only delivery of content to homes.

Yes, initially, these cable companies will be hurt for sales and lose customers, but honestly I have no respect for a dinosaur industry that doesn't want to change or innovate and tries instead to suppress innovation then embrace it. But eventually those Telcos that figure out the old ways are no longer going to work and move to new models of content distribution will be able to survive.

The biggest problem is there is FAR too much coupling of government with content delivery. Cable companies have entrenched themselves into government organizations like FCC and pay millions to lobbyists to protect their oligopoly and keep the status quo.

However, companies like Apple and Google are just too powerful and make too much money for the government to continue to pander to a failing industry and not start to listen to the new market leaders. There needs to be a changing of the guard, and companies like Apple and Google represent the future of the industry, those companies that can't see forward cannot be allowed to lead.
 
4) It's also cheaper to have one airplane fly from NY to Boston than two different carriers at the same time. Do you want to regulate that also, to try and make it "cheaper for the consumer"? Where does your rampant disregard for private property and private business end? Where is the line where your own desires aren't allowed to impact everyone else?

5) It costs money to deliver ANY service. Your argument about how it's cheaper to string one wire than 50 can be applied to almost any service in existence.

What a poor false analogy that is.

Airplanes can only carry X number of people. You need more airplanes once that X is met.

Wires carry the same signals to everyone they serve, literally. They always serve the same number of people and the overall system is built to serve the total population of a given area. If that number of people in a node is 100 and it only costs $100 to build to keep the math simple, then the cost to build that node is split amongst 100 to be $1 each. If multiple providers build a node to serve the same 100, the cost is spread to fewer people so if there's 2 providers, it's now split among a smaller number of people, and it's more than $1 passed on to the customer, and it only increases the cost from there... It's very basic economics 101, economies of scale to be specific...
 
Just the opposite.

When Verizon rolled out FIOS, they were not the first provider to the area. They had more risk than the first provider, as I'm assuming the first provider had tax breaks, exclusive contracts, etc. that FIOS did not.

Look, you REALLY need to start doing your homework. Verizon most certainly had tax incentives. As would ANY new provider. You're making an enormously poor assumption in many areas - such as this. Tax breaks cost nothing. That's a red herring. That's what makes me shake my head ever time somebody starts railing about how horrible "tax breaks" are. They "might" result in some income (and remember, you don't tax investment - you tax profit) not being taxed, but that would only happen if it generated revenue. So if you don't grant the tax break, you don't get the revenue to begin with. And as for "exclusive contracts" - you're again talking about assumed generalities not based in any sort of actual facts. They are using the same right of ways, in the same communities, etc. Since the time that any provider rolled out service BEFORE any anti-exclusivity regulation existed, every single provider in this country has been around long enough to have totally replaced their entire infrastructure multiple times over.
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What a poor false analogy that is.

Airplanes can only carry X number of people. You need more airplanes once that X is met.

Wires carry the same signals to everyone they serve, literally. They always serve the same number of people and the overall system is built to serve the total population of a given area. If that number of people in a node is 100 and it only costs $100 to build to keep the math simple, then the cost to build that node is split amongst 100 to be $1 each. If multiple providers build a node to serve the same 100, the cost is spread to fewer people. If there's 2 providers, it's now split among a smaller number of people, and it's more than $1 passed on to the customer... It's very basic economics 101, economies of scale to be specific...

Wow, you really are clueless about this!

1) Airplanes are not always full. They do NOT always serve the same number of people.

2) More importantly, if you think that "wires carry the same signals to everyone they serve literally, always serve the same number of people, etc", you are demonstrating a complete and utter lack of comprehension of this technology - period. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever about your entire statement that is even remotely correct. It is complete, total, and utter BS.
 
That proposal is ridiculous. By the same logic, anyone should be able to use iOS or OS X on whichever device they have.

actually NO. your logic sucks and has no similarity. Apple develops and distributes intellectual property in the form of software. cable companies develop nothing, they only distribute property provided by developers. they are nothing more than a middle man, just like a grocery store.
 
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