FCE: Loosing color while exporting

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by dewjack, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. dewjack macrumors member

    dewjack

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    #1
  2. AcesHigh87 macrumors 6502a

    AcesHigh87

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    #2
    I never used Express so I’m not sure of it’s limitations or uses. With that said, I’m going to ask a question that might seem a bit insulting (I don’t mean it to be) but might be required and can be overlooked.

    Have the effects been rendered prior to export?
     
  3. dewjack thread starter macrumors member

    dewjack

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    #3
    They have been, no offense taken :) and thanks for trying to help.
     
  4. AcesHigh87 macrumors 6502a

    AcesHigh87

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    #4
    What exactly are you exporting the files as? Care to open the file in quicktime and take a screenshot of the info menu? To get it just hit command+i with the file playing.

    Also, could you post a screenshot from the video before and after exporting? Same frame if possible. Just so I can get a picture of what exactly is happening.
     
  5. dewjack, Apr 20, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014

    dewjack thread starter macrumors member

    dewjack

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    #5
    No problem.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The difference is not big but it is still clearly visible when it comes to the color burgundy and the orange.
     
  6. AcesHigh87 macrumors 6502a

    AcesHigh87

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    #6
    I do see what you mean, especially in the orange cloth (?) folded on the table.

    The export format and nitrate, however, are highly compressed so I wonder if that's where the issue is coming from. Heavy compression will usually kill colour depth which is what this looks like.

    As a test try exporting as something less compressed like Pro-Res. I'd suggest taking a smaller portion of the video to save time. This will allow us to tell if the colours aren't saving or if they are simply getting compressed down.
     
  7. Richardthe4th macrumors regular

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    #7
    Hi,

    Do you have the same effect if you play the file with another player? Or on a PC? Quicktime has (had) what is called the gamma shift issue, and your samples look like that. So your files are probably correct.

    You can also check this link:
    http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1153069
     
  8. Ritsuka macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    QuickTime X color corrects the video with colorsync. Final Cut 7 and Express does weird things, you should use and external broadcast monitor for color correction, or switch to an app that does not have these issues.
     
  9. Chad3eleven macrumors regular

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    Dec 11, 2012
    #9
    hes not having issues with the color correct process, its an issue with the export.

    Try this.. export the edit (or segment) at its native timeline settings (prores HQ, DVCPRO, etc)

    then do a few tests using streamclip, compressor, adobe media encoder and even quicktime pro 7 to make your end/deliverable file.

    compare the results.

    Over the years I have noticed the shift, generally its the gamma shift.. sometimes to overcome it I've either applied a contrast and saturation effect in my timeline (to overcome the gamma shift in compression) or play with the filters in the export settings.

    Are you locked in to a MP4 format? and why is your frame rate 14.29??
     
  10. dewjack thread starter macrumors member

    dewjack

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    #10
    When I choose DVCPRO50-PAL it becomes like this:

    [​IMG]

    The other options I have are:

    [​IMG]
    I have also tried the 8-bit bit it also meant loosing some color. Pro-res as AcesHigh87 suggested does not seem to be an option, or am I missing something? I am not the technical guy ...

    Chad3eleven, frame rate: 14:29 was just the result when I clicked "Current frame rate", could it affect the color? ANd what do you mean with this: "then do a few tests using streamclip, compressor, adobe media encoder and even quicktime pro 7 to make your end/deliverable file." Do these convert the exported file?

    Now I will saturate the one in the timeline and see the effect :).

    Thanks for all the help and suggestions, I am learning a lot.
     
  11. Chad3eleven macrumors regular

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    #11
    First off,what is the original codec of your footage? (dvcpro, mpg4, etc) does it match your sequence?

    What are the sequence setting in FCE?

    Meaning what is your editing format of the edit? (Sequence settings)

    example below...

    THEN.. what I was suggesting is to export the sequence at its native settings from FCE.. which means do NOT choose a different setting as you listed, merely choose export.. (I have never used FCE, just FCP.. but below is what you want to choose, assuming its the same)

    choosing this exports your edit at the original format of what the sequence is set at.

    AFTER you have the master file exported, then you can use streamclip, quicktime pro 7, compressor or adobe media encoder to encode your file.

    NOW.. what are you exporting to? Is this for a website? is there a specific codec/file type you need to have?

    I know you are not that techy.. but some of this is basic knoweldge that you need to understand.. as for the color shift, have you checked the file in different players? quicktime v10, or quicktime 7.. and you can play it in stream clip.. I've noticed gamma shifts in quicktime 10, and no shift in quicktime 7.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. dewjack thread starter macrumors member

    dewjack

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    #12
    Aha, I start to understand.

    Now I exported it by just clicking 'Quick Time Movie ...', I played that file in quicktime and the image quality was significantly better but the lack of color was still there. However, when I play the same file in 'MPEG Streamclip' the color is nearly identical with the one in the timeline, the whole clip is slightly darker but the red and orange is very good. Thank you Chad3eleven so much for your guidance!!!

    Does this mean that there were two wrongs?
    1. The way I converted it.
    2. The way Quicktime (10.3) plays it.

    Now I want to export it to you tube, is there anything special to think about?

    In my case the sequence setting were the ones below. Are they 'good'? What decides them, is it by default?

    In the timeline the sequence had these properties:
    frame size: 1280 x 720
    vid rate: 25 fps
    compressor: apple intermediate Codec

    Again, thank you for your time. And yes, I understand that some basic level of technical knowledge is required and I don't oppose it, learning is fun.
     
  13. Chad3eleven macrumors regular

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    Dec 11, 2012
    #13
    Glad to hear you are getting it!

    Nothing really wrong going on.. but quicktime 10 is tricky sometimes..

    as for your sequence settings.. does that match your footage?

    meaning.. are your clips (either digitized off of tape, or imported from a camera) made at that codec? (apple intermediate) or are they different?


    I ask this because i've seen countless editors editing in mis matched enviroments.. your sequence USUALLY should match the majority of what your footage is.. this helps for playback and less rendering.

    This is also important so your not rendering when you may not need to..

    and there is a chance that your color looks off because of that codec.


    Anywho.. another test is to open up a browser window in safari.. and you can click and drag a quicktime file to it, and let it play.. just another way of looking at the chroma/luma levels (color and brightness)

    as for youtube settings.. 1280x720 h.264 quicktime is fine.. keep your frame rate at 25 (which I hope is the native/orig frame rate of your footage)

    then just upload the file to youtube and set it to private, wait for it to convert properly and watch it.. if you are satisfied with the look then youre cool.


    also, i did a search and came across this thread, it could help you:

    http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1031863
     
  14. dewjack thread starter macrumors member

    dewjack

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    #14
    So there are a minimum of three transitions?
    1. From the living world to the information stored on the card in the camera.
    2. Information on the camera card to editing software.
    3. From editing software to a file which is watchable outside of it.

    And if the settings are identical in all three the quality will be optimal, but also too big size?

    When I clicked on the file on the SD-card from my camera it started playing in Quick Time Player, I pressed cmd + I, and this came up? Is that the information concerning the original footage or is it only related to Quick Time?

    [​IMG]
     

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