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As gets harped on every other post, your current workflow is still intact, and that is precisely why the problems people have with FCP X are non-issues

Yes, from that viewpoint, you would be correct. My workflow is indeed still intact for the foreseeable future. But the thing is, FCP 7 as we currently know it will stay the way it is for good. With Apple dropping product support, I don't see future software updates happening. 3rd party hardware and software developers will gradually leave. The sustainability of an "legacy" FCP workstation is now questionable. From here, we can only hope that Apple will make workflow improvements to FCP X to compensate.

Nothing becomes a "industry standard" overnight. FCP X will either become one, or it will get sidelined. People will either work with the tools they have, or buy/code new ones. You mention Automatic Duck; in the user guide for Pro Export, it notes that back in version 3, FCP didn't have XML exporting. FCP 7 does.

And I never claimed that. I suppose that more than anything, I'm shocked that FCP X still carries the "Pro" moniker, yet it's a radically different beast. And it's even marketed as FCP 7's successor. I think a lot of us were expecting FCP X to be a re-written application more along the lines of FCP 7, except with modern real-time media handling, modern logging tools, improved sound editing, etc. There's a TON of things I love about FCP X; I only wish it was executed differently, that's all.

Regarding Automatic Duck, I started editing on FCP about midway through its "legacy" days (version 3.5 or 4, I believe). I'm not totally sure anymore which version brought OMF export. I do agree that it's a dated standard, especially considering it has a rather limiting 2GB export ceiling. But even so, it continues to be commonly used in ProTools. CMX 3600 EDL files are old as dirt too (they date back to the early days of non-linear editing), but a lot of 3rd-party post finishing tools continue to use those as well.
 
Apple chose to ship a product that innovates while taking huge steps backward in the process. Quite simply, as a working pro, I need to make a living, which means I need software that will meet the needs of my workflow NOW. I can't entrust my livelihood on hope that things will change. Understandably, not everyone is affected by what FCP X lacks, but a lot of us are. Therefore, the those of us who are will respectfully pass on FCP X: either just for now, or indefinitely; that all depends on Apple. Frankly, in the software-based NLE arena, Apple has a lot more competition than they did back in 2001
I'm really not sure how this keeps getting overlooked.

It's weird how some people simultaneously say, "FCP 10 may work great in the future so stop worrying about how it does not work today" and "FCP 7 works great today so stop worrying about how it won't work in the future." There's a gap between "FCP 7 is no longer sufficient" and "FCP 10 is sufficient... we hope" that seems to keep getting over looked.

Gnomes_plan.png


I'm getting fed up of reading that fcpx isn't a pro app because it doesn't do stuff with tapes. It's a MODERN video editing tool, just because it's left old technologies behind doesnt mean its not pro.
Adobe and Avid have managed to make modern NLEs that have more support for tapeless workflows than FCP 10 current does and they did it w/o dropping tape support. It's not an either/or situation.

Production companies should be leaving these things in the past anyway. You can leave fcp7 installed if you need it.
And production companies are, but the entire industry can't drop tape support over night just because in Apple's world tape doesn't exist. Reality gets in the way sometimes.

As gets harped on every other post, your current workflow is still intact, and that is precisely why the problems people have with FCP X are non-issues.
You mean my workflow that could really use an overhaul because FCP 'classic' is based on code over a decade old and hasn't seen a worthwhile update since 2007? If you look at it that way I guess you are right that FCP 10's short comings are non-issues if you don't use the program which is why so many people have said they won't be using the program. Although I'm sure most, if not all of those people, would've preferred Apple release something that was a more suitable replacement for FCP 7 out of the gate.

People will either work with the tools they have, or buy/code new ones.
Exactly. So why the insults and animosity towards people that have moved on?

You mention Automatic Duck; in the user guide for Pro Export, it notes that back in version 3, FCP didn't have XML exporting. FCP 7 does.
So... Apple dropped a pro feature in FCP 10 and that's okay because FCP didn't always have said pro feature and dropping said feature is an illustration of how modern, professional, and forward thinking FCP 10 is. Except that Apple has said that OMF is coming back. So will FCP 10 be better once it adds back this pro feature? Or will it be worse because it supports 'less modern' workflows? It can't be both.

There seems to be a lot of pollyannism with regard to FCPX. I get that people are unhappy with it but how much complaining is enough?
If in a thread made to discuss the pros/cons of FCP 10 you are upset that people are saying negative things?


That's exactly what it is to me, as well. I hope that as FCP X explores its potential I can keep up... I'm no where near a rocket scientist... just a mathematician.
I like FCPX. It's letting me fool around with video clips in ways I never would have in the old version because of how obtuse the layout is.
And here in lies a big difference in how people perceive FCP 10, IMO. If you are someone that depends day in and day out on FCP odds are you aren't going to be happy with FCP 10 as it is and the direction that Apple seems to be going. If you are someone that is not reliant on FCP and is not in the post industry then I can understand not thinking any of this is that big a deal.

I'm sure many people who rarely drive and only have the occasional need for basic transportation would find a manual transmission overly complicated compared to an automatic transmission. They just want to get in their car, drive down to the store and come back home. Quick, easy, simple, done. But that doesn't mean manual transmissions are overcomplicated and unnecessary. It just means a car with a manual transmission probably isn't the best solution for individuals with those types of needs.

Don't you want people taking video? Cutting video? CREATING things?

Or does that lie strictly within the purview of so-called "professional"s who present themselves as individuals more willing to whine about non-issues rather than finding solutions?
Insults born out of ignorance aside, I think that video is becoming a new form of literacy. Instead of e-mailing people about events we are snapping quick videos and sending/posting them instead. There are 'tiers' of video creation just like there are tiers of business and sport and for each tier there is room for appropriate tools catering to those separate markets. There's no reason why all tools and solutions should cater to the lowest common denominator.


It can continue the democratization of video composition, the same way the cell phone did that for photography. (Cell phones vs point-n-shoots would be a different argument we could have later.)
Cell phone vs DSLR or medium format camera would be a little more apt comparison, IMO.


Lethal
 
Apple and oranges

The thing with FCPX, Avid, Premiere and FCP is the moment in time.

If we had FCPX in early 2000 it would have been a great software because there was a window.

Avid was too expensive back in the 90s when I was studying vido post production at Full Sail in Orlando, FL.

The other great software was Premiere that was running just fine and had features FCP does not have today.

Apple came up with FCP but no one listened, people where ok with Premiere.

Now.... what happened was that Apple came up with OSX and Premiere dumped Apple and that was what made people to reconsider FCP that was performing rock solid.

Still, while I was starting to use FCP in 2004, every post production house was running Avid. If you wanted to get hired you needed Avid.

FCP became important with the multicamera support and when it came with the rest of the softwares. Apple just dropped a bunch of softwares together that had no actual interaction between them but it worked.

Today the situation is different:

Premiere is back on OSX, so there is a reliable and way professional economic option against FCPX.

Avid still a pain, specially with tech support, but is reliable and industry standard.

FCPX lacks of features, is not backward compatible, is actually a Beta version like Windows 95. but most important... is not a need. Remember, the historic moment of FCP was when Apple came up with OSX and FCP was the only software available.

Now, you can use FCPX and learn it. If you work on your own good. But if you are planing to work in any studio or TV station they will be running Avid or Premiere or an old version of FCP, but no FCPX just for you.

I work at a TV station and we will be switching to Avid or Premiere soon, but no FCPX ever. Apple is a cellphone company now, no post production.
 
By choosing FCP X to be totally new and target a new customer base (because that's what they did), Apple made a business decision. That's good for a business, to make decisions. We as users can like it or dislike it (as all the explicit words on the fora show) and choose accordingly.

What I blame Apple for, is the sudden, out of the blue, discontinuation of their current product (That really needed to be kept alive, because FCP7 and FCP X are so different. Mind you, I don't care them to be different). That is very bad acting to your customer base, Apple has shown themselves an unreliable partner and I think that is the main reason the (big) post houses are changing. Businesses need continuity and continuity in the support of their stuff.

And if people still use tape, they need tape deck compatibility. And if people use broadcast monitors, they need card compatibility, etc. If you don't use them, you don't need the compatibility. If you don't have old projects, you don't need backward compatibility. Etc. But don't tell nobody needs that functionalities.

The rest is a discussion of like versus dislike; or pro versus uhhhh also pro...??; or supposedly old versus new (huh??); or emotions versus even more emotions.

BTW I really liked color. A pity it is EOL...
 
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And if people still use tape, they need tape deck compatibility. And if people use broadcast monitors, they need card compatibility, etc.
The deck drivers can come from AJA (you work with decks, you have a card in any way), same as your broadcast monitor. That's the new Apple paradigm. However, FCP X is color space aware, so why don't you just calibrate your monitor?

I would give it some time. You old guns know how long it took Apple to make FCP Classic an editor that you actually can use.

I miss Color too...
 
The deck drivers can come from AJA (you work with decks, you have a card in any way), same as your broadcast monitor. That's the new Apple paradigm. However, FCP X is color space aware, so why don't you just calibrate your monitor?
As of right now there are no 'hooks' in FCP 10 to allow third parties to extract a proper, broadcast quality video signal from the app so the only thing Matrox or AJA can do is offer an extended desktop mode. While FCP 10 working w/ColorSync is a welcome addition, and will hopefully eliminate the problem of videos looking different depending on what app you are viewing them in, it's not a replacement for having a video i/o card feeding a broadcast monitor. For example, computer monitors and GFX cards are designed to work with progressive images at whole frame rates while video signals are many times interlaced and/or non-integer frame rates.


Lethal
 
not that old :D

how long it took Apple to make FCP Classic an editor that you actually can use

Exactly my point. And that is why there should have been continuity with the 'old stuff'

But then, it is as it is and we will see FCP X grow. It really has potential and very interesting things. And Apple also is gutsy to come up with something so new and different.
 
Kristoffer, you are working with FCE, so what are you missing? FCP X runs circles around FCE and, partially, around FCP.
 
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