Feasibility of New Solid Aluminum Manufacturing Process?

[mortlar]

Wonder what will happen...

Wonder what will happen if october 14th comes and there´s no fancy new manufactoring process? Everybody expects it now, and that could really hurt Apple.

That´s the danger of not dismissing rumors. "Let´s rock" went badly because everybody had super high hopes. It was great, but everybody complained because they were hoping for a revolution.

 

[flottenheimer]

What puzzles me about the rumor is that Apple has been able to avoid anyone from picking up, that they have built a large scale production facility.

Apple does it Area 51 style... Hmmmm. Where is it located?

 

[koko76]

No one would machine a case out of a solid block. What you'd do is use a hydrauli press to form a block of metal into the basic shape. Aluminum flows like putty given enough presure. Then you follow up with the lasers and water for some of the detaails.

Ever seen how they make a soda can? They put a littel ound pellet in a can shaped hole and hit it with a ram the metal flows up and around the ram, just like it was water. It takes just a fraction of a second. If you can turn a pellet into a can you can turn a slab into a case

Except for a couple of "minor details". Those would be that a soda can, while also being very very thin, is always in tension. It's far easier when you just have pressure in a vessel to help hold it's shape. When you form metal with hydraulic means as you describe you will run into problems with strength in different areas, as well as issues of flow into different areas. A soda can is a simple shape, a case is not really so.
If you don't machine things for a living (or in my case part of my living) this whole thing sounds super fancy, and technical with enough details to possibly be true. The reality is that these processes are fairly common today. A particular process is selected based on time, cost, production rates, and quality of the final product. They have been known and understood for some time, and aren't the breakthrough that this rumor describes. I'll be happy to see something new, but this doesn't sound that way at all.

 

[gkarris]

Like Dell, they will be assembled in the US from parts mainly from China (the board, hard drive). The case will be made in the US with the new manufacturing process...

 

[Vulpinemac]

Do you think they would throw that out? Why?

Aluminum has a very low melting point, all scraps could be collected and melted into new blocks to use again at a very low cost in energy.

To add to this, by milling a solid block, you have better rigidity and stronger fastenings than using any other kind of framing system. All of the milled-out material can be recycled for a fraction of the cost and materials than it would for raw aluminum ore.

Modern, computer-controlled milling and cutting systems work faster and cleaner than any previous method. Also, being computer controlled, changing the design is a simple matter of changing the 'pattern' the machine works from; allowing a complete changeover from laptop to iPod to desktop and back again in a matter of minutes, not hours or days. In other words, while there will be an initial cost hit, the overall cost can't help but go down over time; especially since aluminum is so soft and easy to mill. Even the milling bits themselves will have a much longer operational life than if they were milling steel.

Based on my first-hand experience with the processes as described, I believe the analyst has no idea what he's talking about. All he can see is the up-front cost and not the ROI, as they put it.

 

[Breegy]

Every hour that goes by without confirmation of a press invite for the 14th, I die a little inside =(

You might want a friend ready to dial 911 when Oct 14th gets here and there are no updates. Edit: IF there are no updates.

 

[Vulpinemac]

What puzzles me about the rumor is that Apple has been able to avoid anyone from picking up, that they have built a large scale production facility.

Apple does it Area 51 style... Hmmmm. Where is it located?

Well, MacRumors themselves commented on the fact that Apple purchased an HP assembly plant only a mile from the Apple campus not all that long ago. It wouldn't be all that difficult to convert it to a manufacturing and assembly plant, would it?

 

[tgildred]

How do you get them inside in the first place?

Careful application of sunshine and farts.

To paraphrase Stewie.

I kind of thought this sounded like a Crazy Apple Rumor. But you never know with Apple. It's like the Chocolate Factory. They might have Oompa Loompas putting these things together.

 

[marbles]

So , any sign of invites for the supposed press event on the 14th yet ....anyone ?




And another Tuesday rolls by ......

 

[mogzieee]

I don't get how this is such a big deal.... who cares if their laptop is laser cut from one piece of aluminum..? I don't understand why a computer user would say this is such an amazing thing.

 

[137489]

ok, I do not know much about manufacturing processes (been a computer person all my life in the medical industry). If apple, being innovative as they are, and always want to be different and stand out - I can see this as the way to go.

Stamp process - change your design and you must come up with new stamp cast that the stamp will pound into the metal.

Laser/Water - Use software to reprogram the cutting lasers (ie instant change, no designing a cast and then make the cast to put on the stamper).

Stamp - have the problem with machinery applying uneven pressure, product slides, etc thus warped or unsable product that has to be remelted.

Laser/Water - precise cuts virtual errorless.

Stamp - Noisy machinery that OSHA would have to regulate.

Laster/Water - noise not a facture, but do need a way to contain the fumes from burning aluminum

 

[kjs862]

Any mockups?

 

[.Chris]

I don't believe the October 14 hype.

really? hundreds of others say otherwise. also we know Christmas is soon so it only makes sence to have them out BEFORE not after

some people dont know how the world works

 

[Vulpinemac]

No I don't think they would throw it out. Thats why I said "....would need melted back down and cast into another block."

How would machining out a block and re-melting the scraps into a new block use less energy than a simple die pressed case? It's way less waste and much faster.

Logically, you're wrong. I admit it's easy to 'stamp out' a thin sheet of metal, but when you're trying for something a little thicker, a press is just too big and too slow to work. These laptop bodies are likely to be about 1/4" thick or thicker. Trying to 'press' this would be similar to injection molding, relatively slow and the product relatively unreliable. Stamping would increase the likelihood of weak corners where a pure molded block will be roughly the same strength throughout.

Meanwhile, milling machines are remarkably fast when working in aluminum. The bits don't wear as quickly as with steel and they can give you a finished look with almost no additional sanding required. Even water-jet technology would be faster and cleaner than stamping or pressing. And when you take the process of product change into account, it's a lot quicker changing out the pattern code in a computer-operated milling/water-jet machine than it is changing the dies in a press.

The old monocoque process can produce a pretty and fairly strong product, as long as the skin is rigid. But were at a point where we need a very rigid frame under a very thin and often-opened skin; the process doesn't work there. Take a look at the current iMacs and Mac Minis. these are an example of what Apple is trying to do for the new laptops.

 

[rotorblade69]

I doubt VERY SERIOUSLY that they are starting with a solid block of aluminum. More like a Cast or forging of the rough shape, and then hog out the little details and put on a finish. I really do believe the next gen. Mac Books will be the same as they air and not have a removable battery if its not some type of slate or tablet. NOW for the Pro model Well it had better have a removable battery and a disk drive. Especially the 17" MBP.

 

[Vulpinemac]

Does anyone on this thread know of other tech or commercial products that are made with this "brick" method?

Actually, yes. There are a number of different hand-held aluminum-bodied auto mechanic's gauges and diagnostic tools in production using this process. The tool has to be durable to handle the everyday slips and falls of meters and sensors while providing a display that is easily read under difficult conditions. This aluminum brick method gives the tool a very strong case that protects the contents while still allowing openings for buttons and displays that won't be destroyed if a car happens to roll over it. I used to be involved in the manufacture of these tools... over 10 years ago. The process isn't new, but its strength and durability is well-proven.

 

[Shagrat]

...if october 14th comes and there´s no fancy new manufactoring process? Everybody expects it now, and that could really hurt Apple...

Weeeelllll, </Samantha Stevens>... everybody HERE, maybe, but there are an awful lot of people who haven't heard this rumour.

 

[Courtaj]

Any mockups?

Any bananas?

 

[winterspan]

Although I agree that we shouldn't rehash this entire conversation again from the other thread about this, I will say that the majority of people familiar with metal working and manufacturing processes that I've heard/read online have said it's highly unlikely the process would work as described. Starting with a raw aluminum ingot and then milling it into a laptop case would be incredibly inefficient, energy-intensive, and costly compared to the traditional method of stamping. I'm not a manufacturing engineer, but on first glance I would tend to agree. And besides, water jets and industrial lasers are made to cut through metal... I don't understand how they could be used to actually mill out the material inside the case.

 

[Fidgetyrat]

I don't give a damn how they make it, just so long as they do make it and that there is finally a good price point set with up-to-date hardware.

The current offerings are almost insulting.

 

[jb510]

Carbonite Brick

I think Brick is Apple's code for the next laptop, but that it is actually going be encased Carbonite, just like Hans Solo. There will be no way to service the "Brick" keeping with Apples ongoing efforts to thwart anyone upgrading or servicing their perfect creations. The upside will be the brick will be completely indestructible solidifying Apple's lead on notebook durability. Expect the military to be very interested in these for field deployment.

 

[tkermit]

Someone please help me understand this. Solid block? No screws, no seams ?

I could fully understand using an aluminum case that goes almost completely around the innards but still has holes on at least one side to slide the electronics in, like they do on the iPod nano. Then you would still have to cover these openings with glued or screwed on plastic.

But how would you have no seams and no screws ?

 

[lostngone]

As long as I don't need my Imagewriter!

As long as its lighter then my original Macintosh Portable I will be happy.

 

[Mr Maui]

Wonder what will happen if october 14th comes and there´s no fancy new manufactoring process? Everybody expects it now, and that could really hurt Apple.

Hurt them? The stock is already down almost 60% from its high. You think its going back to $10?

 

[pavelbure]

The bits don't wear as quickly as with steel and they can give you a finished look with almost no additional sanding required.

they are called inserts, not bits.

you also have to take into account the time it will take to get the finish correct if they try to mill these. i highly doubt they will want swirl marks or even worse chatter in these parts. being how thin the cases are already chatter will play a part in it.

i'm not saying this can't be done, I'm saying it isn't economical to do it this way.

also we should be listening to people in this forum and on the net who actually have a manufacturing/machining background and not some analyst who has no clue what it takes to manufacture parts.