Federal Judge Tosses Apple's Theft Claims in Ongoing Epic Games Legal Fight

[bsolar]

No consumer, from the beginning of time, has ever “owned” software. Software, like music, is intangible intellectual property that is licensed for use under the terms of the license. Whether the consumer pays a one time fee or a recurring fee makes no difference.

I think the only exceptions where a license is not necessary is for self-authored software and software in the public domain. In the former case the owner and the user are one and the same, in the latter there is no owner at all so no need for a license altogether.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Epic is clearly the Villain.

They can easily revert back to the contractual approach to billing (either Apple Store or not at all in app). They could easily just release the app without any in app purchasing.

Exactly.

Epic should remove all purchasing from the app and make people buy digital VBucks from their own website.

Look at Amazon... you can't buy digital Kindle books from the app either. You have to buy them from the web.

Apple is fine with that. And so is Amazon.

This seems like this is a solved problem. Amazon figured this out years ago. Yet Epic continues to fight.

 

[SDJim]

Why do you think they are ok with consoles? First they created a competing store on PC, now they want to do that on phones, what makes you think they would stop there?

Regardless, the phone market is orders of magnitude larger than the console market. It's pretty twisted logic that Apple is entitled to 30% of all software sales on their platform until the end of time. Yes Apple created the platform, but at this point it's basically a general purpose computing platform like Mac or Windows, both of which give developers other distribution options. Without third party apps, there's no way that Apple sells even 30% of the iPhones they do now. At this point, Apple needs competition to keep them honest, otherwise we'll get more decisions like the game streaming one where they are blatantly protecting their inferior Apple Arcade subscriptions from competition.

Rent seeking behavior aside, Apple should be selling an Apple TV with a controller like you suggest. There's a big gaming play that they could make with apps now compatible with the Mac as well.

It literally cuts in half after 1 year.

 

[paradox00]

It literally cuts in half after 1 year.

It literally doesn't. Fortnite isn't subscription based. In-app purchases are 30% until the end of time. While you're right about there being a wrinkle with subscriptions, that doesn't meaningfully change my point.

 

[4jasontv]

No consumer, from the beginning of time, has ever “owned” software. Software, like music, is intangible intellectual property that is licensed for use under the terms of the license. Whether the consumer pays a one time fee or a recurring fee makes no difference.

Besides being untrue, your statement is irrelevant. If I pay for a Switch cart I have the right to dump it for backup purposes, modify the game for my own use, and sell the original for any price choose. Subscription pricing seeks to refuse me the right to do those things, of which I am authorized to do, with the software I paid for.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Wait, Apple were actually suing over lost app store revenue?! They're showing their true colours here.

If I listed my product on Ebay and told everyone to just text me to buy the product, bypassing Ebay fees, that would be essentially stealing from Ebay

 

[omihek]

Wait, Apple were actually suing over lost app store revenue?! They're showing their true colours here.

Fortnite with it's own payment system was live on the App Store for hours before it got pulled. Then whoever updated it had it on their devices for the next few weeks before it stopped working. So all that time that players were buying stuff using Epic's own payment system Apple was losing it's rightful App Store fees, per the contract Epic signed.

 

[genovelle]

Greed vs bigger Greed

You can't sign a contract and agree to use someone else's tools and location to grow your business, then later decide after growing your business to enormous size based on that agreement that you want to still use their tools and sell from their location, but for free and even better undermine their business by opening a competing store with your potential vendors and except them not to complain. Maybe I should create an online store that allows other vendors to sell their products online and force Walmart to put my site on their front page for free. Even better how about I do the same and create a gaming store the signs up developers for a fee and force epic to promote my site on their platform.

 

[genovelle]

Apple if you are listening. Since Epic wants to be on your platform for free, you should demand to be able to promote all the competing games available on the App Store for free on their website.

 

[nylonsteel]

lots of other games better than fortnite
though i have separate gaming win-tel machines for gaming

 

[Ethosik]

Besides being untrue, your statement is irrelevant. If I pay for a Switch cart I have the right to dump it for backup purposes, modify the game for my own use, and sell the original for any price choose. Subscription pricing seeks to refuse me the right to do those things, of which I am authorized to do, with the software I paid for.

Technically you don't have the right to do that. While I don't think you would be taken to court or found guilty if you were, its not technically legal to backup games that way. Similarly with movies. You can rip the DVD/Blu Ray. Its not TECHNICALLY legal, but it does fall in line with fair use. It is a grey area.

 

[Ivan Dragomilof]

A California federal judge on Tuesday dismissed some of Apple's counterclaims against Epic Games in its ongoing antitrust battle over Apple's App Store fees (via Bloomberg).

Apple and Epic have been in a legal fight since August, when Apple removed Fortnite from the App Store after Epic Games introduced a direct payment option in the app, defying the App Store rules. Epic Games promptly filed a lawsuit against Apple, accusing the company of anti-competitive actions.

In September, Apple filed a counter suit to stop the game maker from using its own payment system for Fortnite. Apple also accused Epic of theft and sought extra monetary damages beyond breach of contract.

In October, Epic filed a motion ahead of Tuesday's hearing seeking the dismissal of Apple's counterclaims of intentional interference with prospective economic advantage and conversion, along with its punitive damages bid.

On Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers granted Epic Games' motion for judgement, throwing out Apple's two claims for lost App Store fees and other monetary damages.

"This is a high-stakes breach of contract case and an antitrust case and that's all in my view," Gonzalez told Apple's lawyers, according to Bloomberg. "You can't just say it's independently wrongful. You actually have to have facts," the judge said, adding that the rest of the breach-of-contract case moves forward.

Apple told Bloomberg that it disagreed with the judge's decision, adding that it was clear that Epic breached its contract with the company. Epic in October had a preliminary injunction dismissed by the same judge, meaning Fortnite will remain unavailable on the App Store for the duration of the lawsuit, assuming that the app remains in violation of the App Store Review Guidelines. The case continues.

Article Link: Federal Judge Tosses Apple's Theft Claims in Ongoing Epic Games Legal Fight

If Apple made cars, you would only be able to buy gas at Apple gas stations, use Apple oil, Apple tires and fill the tires with Apple air.

 

[Tech198]

I do agree with the judge on tossing out the loss of damage on Apple, Apple cannot prove it caused damage to them, In fact every company sees to say "loss of damages", regardless often real reason... The only thing Apple can fight for is "against TOS"

 

[dannys1]

Except it's not. There's several ARM computers which run Windows 10, the most notable of which is Microsoft's own ARM based Surface computers.

I've heard Samsung also offers ARM based laptops that run Windows 10, although I haven't verified that it's true.

Yes but it's not the same version of Windows - they might do a fully fledged recompile of Windows for ARM at some point, especially if these chips start to cut into x86 domination but don't expect to see it anytime soon. PPC used to be able to virtualise x86 Windows so i'm sure VMWare will eventually come up with a way to do it and it appears these processors have enough head room to make up for the inefficiency to get bits of Windows working well, but honestly - just avoid using it if you can.

 

[lolrepeatlol]

Exactly.

Epic should remove all purchasing from the app and make people buy digital VBucks from their own website.

Look at Amazon... you can't buy digital Kindle books from the app either. You have to buy them from the web.

Apple is fine with that. And so is Amazon.

This seems like this is a solved problem. Amazon figured this out years ago. Yet Epic continues to fight.

Please stop with this argument. Apps can't tell people to buy things outside of the app (like on the web). Amazon has to hope people figure it out themselves.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Apps can't tell people to buy things outside of the app (like on the web). Amazon has to hope people figure it out themselves.

Correct. And people do figure it out. Amazon has been selling Kindle books on iPhones this way for years.

Again... this is a solved problem. If a developer doesn't want to pay Apple's fees... they sell it themselves online.

If Amazon is doing it this way... why can't Epic?