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Federal Lawsuit Filed Over Apple's Location Tracking in iOS [Updated]

DanHolderman said:
This actually happens more often than you think: without naming names certain freight companies routinely open and search suspicious packages, if they find illegal contents (drugs) then the government is often contacted.

The attorneys that filed suit against Apple must be fresh out of law school because this is an old fight that has been clearly decided in the courts.

Nothing new here....
Click to expand...

Armchair lawyer?

I'm glad you didn't name names because that could be libelous. The fact is that customer's packages (I'm not talking FREIGHT) I am talking packages are not OPENED and searched unless they are going through customs. And that's a form you sign off on. Is your package scanned? Submitted to "dusting" for powder, DEA dogs, etc? Yes. And definitely more so since 9/11.
 
rjohnstone said:
Actually it would not be admissible.
The police would not be able to verify where it actually came from unless they actually watched you retrieve it.
At that point a good attorney would argue that you were acting as an agent of the police and the subsequent discovery and retrieval of the coke would fall under the same rules for gathering evidence and require a warrant.
The coke evidence would get tossed and you would go to jail for breaking and entering.
The officers who you handed the coke too would either be reprimanded or fired.
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You are wrong . . .go read ^ Burdeau v. McDowell, 256 U.S. 465 (1921), "Evidence unlawfully obtained from the defendant by a private person is admissible. The exclusionary rule is designed to protect privacy rights, with the Fourth Amendment applying specifically to government officials"
 
Aaron Mayer, the plaintiff and 3 other friends have just checked into Starbucks to complain about invasion of privacy via Facebook Places...
 
KIMOngoloid said:
Aaron Mayer, the plaintiff and 3 other friends have just checked into Starbucks to complain about invasion of privacy via Facebook Places...
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Sarcasm Scenario aside (there's a bunch on this thread) - I hope people realize the difference between (by choice) "checking in" vs being tracked 24/7.
 
Popeye206 said:
And so is AT&T and Verizon.

Point being, own a cell phone, someone is tracking you and it's being recorded.
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If they are collecting and storing it, and I'm not sure they are, how much is that due to compliance with law (e.g E911 ect...)? As for Apple, I don't think they need the information aside from monetary gain. Big difference, very big difference.

All many of us want re the following is that when we stop location services, then ALL data collection stops except that for government regulatory compliance. Right now, this is simply not happening from Apple (or Google). We are being tagged and tracked like free range cows on a farm for their financial benefit, and I for one don't like it.
 
Benjy91 said:
They cant lose this surely?

Even Android stores your location in the exact same way iOS does.
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IMO, this is more political than justice oriented. The Obama admin has been trying to "get the goods" on all of the major CEOs in this country to reign them into his socialist programs.

Many totalitarians in the past have done their best to get industry leaders of their era to play ball by the party line. Just read "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky (1971) and you will see that framing and pushing around the most productive people in a society is all in the game. Hell, this could have been planned years ago and it is finally sprung.

My prediction is that Apple will drop big bank for the best Federal attorneys that knows the FCC rules inside and out (these guys charge about a $1000 an hour) and the case will be delayed 'til after the next election. The new administration will drop the case and it will be business as usual.
 
Love the comparison people keep making between carriers tracking your phone and a manufacturer of cell phones tracking your locations.

The two are not similar in any shape or form. It is a completely invalid comparison.

A cell phone HAS to be tracked by its carrier for the simple fact it needs to know where to send a call signal/internet signal to hit your phone.

Furthermore, it needs to be identified by the carrier so it can count the minutes/texts/data to the appropriate account.

It is a GIVEN that a carrier needs to track its users, so why are people continually trying to make this comparison?
 
Playing a little arm chair lawyer on this end. I looked up privacy law (US) and found the term "Personally identifiable information" (PII). This seems to be the root of the privacy law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personally_identifiable_information

What I can see the important part is you need to be able to link information to a person in order to distinguish or trace a persons identity.

It also goes on to say that a company has to take reasonable measures to secure PII. But the key is seems to be "while in their possession". If you have possession of your iPhone (or any smart phone) then any data or PPI on that property would seem to be your responsibility. Not Apples or Googles.

However, if that data was specifically about you, and can be connected to you and in their possession then they must take reasonable measures to secure it.

Okay... I'm not a lawyer (thank god) and law is open to interpretation. However, it would seem like the people suing will have to prove that the data being collected is identifiable as theirs and that even though they have control of the iPhone (like you do with your checks and credit cards) that Apple has failed to take reasonable measures to protect the data.

Personally, I hope these guys loose, in my opinion, it would appear that this is industry practice. They (Apple, Google, MS, and I'm sure RIM too) are all doing it. So if they win, they will go after Google and others just soak all the companies for money.

However, I think Apple should encrypt the local file just for consumer peace of mind.

Done playing lawyer. My head hurts now. :)
 
iEvolution said:
Love the comparison people keep making between carriers tracking your phone and a manufacturer of cell phones tracking your locations.

The two are not similar in any shape or form. It is a completely invalid comparison.

A cell phone HAS to be tracked by its carrier for the simple fact it needs to know where to send a call signal/internet signal to hit your phone.

Furthermore, it needs to be identified by the carrier so it can count the minutes/texts/data to the appropriate account.

It is a GIVEN that a carrier needs to track its users, so why are people continually trying to make this comparison?
Click to expand...

Not a comparison other than to point out, that the data exists by default. It's the same data being tracked in the little file on the iPhone. Tower Pings.

So even if that file does not exist, the information about your every move still does.
 
Full of Win said:
If they are collecting and storing it, and I'm not sure they are, how much is that due to compliance with law (e.g E911 ect...)? As for Apple, I don't think they need the information aside from monetary gain. Big difference, very big difference.

All many of us want re the following is that when we stop location services, then ALL data collection stops except that for government regulatory compliance. Right now, this is simply not happening from Apple (or Google). We are being tagged and tracked like free range cows on a farm for their financial benefit, and I for one don't like it.
Click to expand...

You do realize that by posting in this forum, you're being tracked right now! :eek:

Moooo! :D
 
Full of Win said:
If they are collecting and storing it, and I'm not sure they are, how much is that due to compliance with law (e.g E911 ect...)? As for Apple, I don't think they need the information aside from monetary gain. Big difference, very big difference.

All many of us want re the following is that when we stop location services, then ALL data collection stops except that for government regulatory compliance. Right now, this is simply not happening from Apple (or Google). We are being tagged and tracked like free range cows on a farm for their financial benefit, and I for one don't like it.
Click to expand...

What monetary gain are you referring to? Just curious.
 
nvbrit said:
Your contacts are stored unencrypted with names, addresses, phone numbers email addresses etc of all your family and friends and yet no one is concerned about that!
Click to expand...

These analogies people are coming up with are ridiculous

If I enter contact info I am ACTIVELY choosing to divulge information

The question here is not about CHOOSING to give out information - it's about not knowing or not being able to CHOOSE.
 
rjohnstone said:
True, but that was not the scenario described.
The scenario described was a B&E where the civilian stole the evidence and turned it over to the police.
The chain of custody of said "evidence" is broken and becomes hearsay evidence. There is no verifiable proof of where the "evidence" was actually recovered from.
That would be like me walking into a police station and saying I found this 10lbs of coke in YOUR house. I would have to prove it came from YOUR house. Since it was removed, the proof of its origins would be difficult to prove.
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Goddamnit, I knew that went somewhere!
(we're talking the soft drink, right?)
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_6 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E200 Safari/6533.18.5)

lilo777 said:
samcraig said:
I'm not arguing either way on this - but to some it's a question of semantics. It is correct to say Apple is not tracking you. The semantic liability here is that people are equating Apple and Apple's device.

The iPhone is tracking "you." A distinction most can make when pointed out - but many a layperson would use either interchangeably. Not me (I love semantics) - but many would just equate Apple and iPhone as the same in this scenario which is why all the soapboxing
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Actually, I am not sure it's just semantics. Apple does store location data (even for times when LS were supposedly turned off) on your phone and computer where they can access it any time they want (they might simply decide that current license agreement covers it anyways and just do it). iPhone owners have no protection against this scenario.
Click to expand...

There is a difference. Just as theoretically Microsoft or Google could "decide" one day in the future to use data that is stored on your device. That doesn't mean that they are monitoring you or tracking you. Saying that they have some theoretical ability does not mean that they are doing anything, or ever will.

That means that it is incorrect to say that Apple is tracking you. They have no knowledge of your configuration.db file contents.
 
Settings>Location Services>Off

(Apple should have replied with that to the email)

This seems like another petty and desperate attempt to get money from a very wealthy and successful company because of an overly paranoid-greedy-jerk.

To put things kindly.



Complete nonsense.
 
hobo.hopkins said:
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_6 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E200 Safari/6533.18.5)



There is a difference. Just as theoretically Microsoft or Google could "decide" one day in the future to use data that is stored on your device. That doesn't mean that they are monitoring you or tracking you. Saying that they have some ability does not mean that they are doing anything, or ever will.

That means that it is incorrect to say that Apple is tracking you. They have no knowledge of your configuration.db file contents.
Click to expand...

But that's incorrect - or partially incorrect based on your own premise.

If one day Apple decides to read that file - then they have, in fact, tracked you. No? As long as the file persists without an easy way to purge it - then at any time Apple COULD access that file and therefor Apple will "have" tracked you. Right? Now I would hope/assume that when and if the time comes that Apple wanted to look into that file - they would alert you (BIG alert). But who's to say....

Benguitar said:
Settings>Location Services>Off

(Apple should have replied with that to the email)

This seems like another petty and desperate attempt to get money from a very wealthy and successful company because of an overly paranoid-greedy-jerk.

To put things kindly.



Complete nonsense.
Click to expand...

Complete nonsense is not reading the full story or thread. As it's been explained - the file contains tracking data regardless of whether location services are on or off. THAT is the whole point of the debate...
 
nvbrit said:
Your contacts are stored unencrypted with names, addresses, phone numbers email addresses etc of all your family and friends and yet no one is concerned about that!
Click to expand...

samcraig said:
These analogies people are coming up with are ridiculous

If I enter contact info I am ACTIVELY choosing to divulge information

The question here is not about CHOOSING to give out information - it's about not knowing or not being able to CHOOSE.
Click to expand...

You're not giving out your location data it's just being cached on your device in such a way that is much harder to a) access and b) do anything useful with. My point is, if you are so concerned that someone will steal your phone and find out where you have been then I would be more concerned with them accessing all my other personal information.
 
Wow, if I were a lawyer, working for one of these major tech companies would be a dream.
 
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