Federal Trade Commission Settles Charges Over Fake App Store Reviews

[iSteiner07]

and a troll. I used to "not" think that, but you only have to look an ANY of the MR forums these days and start to wonder what has changed. Guerrilla marketing efforts (and that is putting it kindly) is big business these days, and are used for (and against) companies that are a lot larger than Apple. Apple is at the top of the heap in quite a few niches, and Apple has always engendered a lot of animosity from the "pc" folks. I experienced it directly for years from my previous employers IT department, they were hostile, non-supportive, and simply wanted one thing... to replace our computers with pc's instead of Macs (and we were a publishing operation, and at that time macs were THE only real choice in our business).

The old motto of "don't feed the troll" doesn't seem to work here any more. There are either a lot more of them, or they have a lot more aliases. I wish we had some sort of crowd control (meaning troll control, lol) here, like quite a few other sites. Even the way more Apple-unfriendly sites have them. While I am sensitive towards differences of opinion, and having an open discussion with varying viewpoints, many of these malcontents have no interest in adding to the discussion, they want to hijack it, or end it altogether... or they want to shape public opinion among the forum readers. And that is exactly what they are doing... read among the threads for the voices of the confused, who are needlessly worried over non-existent defects and are afraid to go ahead with their purchases.

Fortunately, these folks are usually not subtle, and are easily spotted by their non-existent posting history... or worse their posting history where each post has the same angle, and the same message. Apple sucks, they cheat you, they make crap... etc. etc.

Folks come here, or used to, to share their experiences, and to resolve legitimate problems, or to help those who have problems (which exist with every product, no matter who manufactures it).

Perhaps I have become overly cynical, but yes... I really think that. I also am a bit saddened by the state of the online community here. This used to be more of a safe haven, away from the trolls. I can get that at Ars, Gizmodo, Engadget, etc...
cheers,
michael

But you're right. I have been coming here for 4 years. I have seen the trend and the Guerrilla marketing step up big time lately. It is a case of going after the biggest target. And Apple has gotten quite big lately. I don't always agree with their choices, but I admire their products and philosophy as a company. Fascinating stuff, really. Not perfect, but who's better? Really?

Waiting for my commission check on the converts, too

 

[spillproof]

This Is The Best Thread Ever! Totally Worth My Account! You Should Subscribe!

 

[wooo]

Can you really "spot" a fake app review?

It is easy to spot fake reviews in the App store.

Are you sure about that? I watch reviews very carefully and while I "think" I can spot a fake review of my app in the app store (and have at least on one occasion called out one of my competitors for leaving a review himself, that was blatantly false), I don't think it's true in general. This same competitor has about 10 iTunes accounts which he uses to re-review his app about every 4 days so that there are 10 glowing reviews from the same users at the top of the "recent" reviews list for his app. The only reason I know those are fakes are 1) they are always grouped together, 2) they are constantly updated 3) they are always together in a row and 4) one of the "group" is the same one that he used to give my app a bad written review.

But I watch my reviews and competitor's reviews like a hawk (it's my livelihood after all and I like to know about legitimate issues customers have so I can address them, etc.) but it's unlikely that any regular customer will spot those 10 reviews as being fakes unless they check it regularly (or read the rest of the reviews that are much less glowing

 

[JAT]

To me, it seems to be straightforward fraud.

Agree. How can there be more negative votes than positive on this?? Oh, right, the fraudsters are here, too.

 

[Andronicus]

...given that there are probably quite a few hired hands posting here in the MR forums. Think all the anti-apple dreck is just being spewed by blind hatred? Money is always a more lasting motivator than hate.
cheers,
michael

Doubtful. But if true, I am for hire!

 

[lkrupp]

and a troll. I used to "not" think that, but you only have to look an ANY of the MR forums these days and start to wonder what has changed. Guerrilla marketing efforts (and that is putting it kindly) is big business these days, and are used for (and against) companies that are a lot larger than Apple. Apple is at the top of the heap in quite a few niches, and Apple has always engendered a lot of animosity from the "pc" folks. I experienced it directly for years from my previous employers IT department, they were hostile, non-supportive, and simply wanted one thing... to replace our computers with pc's instead of Macs (and we were a publishing operation, and at that time macs were THE only real choice in our business).

The old motto of "don't feed the troll" doesn't seem to work here any more. There are either a lot more of them, or they have a lot more aliases. I wish we had some sort of crowd control (meaning troll control, lol) here, like quite a few other sites. Even the way more Apple-unfriendly sites have them. While I am sensitive towards differences of opinion, and having an open discussion with varying viewpoints, many of these malcontents have no interest in adding to the discussion, they want to hijack it, or end it altogether... or they want to shape public opinion among the forum readers. And that is exactly what they are doing... read among the threads for the voices of the confused, who are needlessly worried over non-existent defects and are afraid to go ahead with their purchases.

Fortunately, these folks are usually not subtle, and are easily spotted by their non-existent posting history... or worse their posting history where each post has the same angle, and the same message. Apple sucks, they cheat you, they make crap... etc. etc.

Folks come here, or used to, to share their experiences, and to resolve legitimate problems, or to help those who have problems (which exist with every product, no matter who manufactures it).

Perhaps I have become overly cynical, but yes... I really think that. I also am a bit saddened by the state of the online community here. This used to be more of a safe haven, away from the trolls. I can get that at Ars, Gizmodo, Engadget, etc...
cheers,
michael

Your post needed to be quoted again. You could not have stated the situation better. MacRumors made a big deal of having reached one million threads recently. But the quality of those threads is questionable at best. Trolling is at all time high and I'd bet some serious money that it's not what it appears to be. Like political talking points the trolling seems consistent and coordinated. Apple has upset a lot of business paradigms in the last decade and some really big companies are feeling the effects on their bottom lines.

 

[mlblacy]

I just want to know when Apple is going to start paying me for all my good reviews and people I convert

still waiting on my check too, lol...

 

[ktappe]

How is this newsworthy?

How is it not newsworthy? It is very important that info about fake reviews get widely disseminated so people are aware of and can beware of them when buying items in the App store.

This is so obvious that I have to label your post as a troll.

 

[0098386]

Perhaps I have become overly cynical, but yes... I really think that. I also am a bit saddened by the state of the online community here. This used to be more of a safe haven, away from the trolls. I can get that at Ars, Gizmodo, Engadget, etc...l

Can't you see the problem there?

Ars, Gizmodo, Engadget and co are tech sites that cover the events of the whole electronic world. They pull in creatives, regular Joes, teens, adults, the phone market, the geeks; everyone.
This "safe haven" existed when Apple computers were aimed at creatives. Now they produce lifestyle products and phones. Heck the phone crowd alone is highly volatile, young, immature etc. I'm faced with it every time I look into buying a new phone and its something that hasn't changed in the last decade.

"omg this fone sux", "yea that fone duz everything but the fone i like is pink and i luv pink so get that!". It mights finding impartial and unbiased reviews near impossible.

And now part of that crowd is here hailing that every device ever is now bad because it wasn't made by Apple, spouting borderline insane remarks about how X, Y, Z company will now fold because Apple just appeared in the their market.

This site harbours both extremes and both sides have gone worse with age.

 

[Jethrotoe]

and a troll. I used to "not" think that, but you only have to look an ANY of the MR forums these days and start to wonder what has changed. Guerrilla marketing efforts (and that is putting it kindly) is big business these days, and are used for (and against) companies that are a lot larger than Apple. Apple is at the top of the heap in quite a few niches, and Apple has always engendered a lot of animosity from the "pc" folks. I experienced it directly for years from my previous employers IT department, they were hostile, non-supportive, and simply wanted one thing... to replace our computers with pc's instead of Macs (and we were a publishing operation, and at that time macs were THE only real choice in our business).

The old motto of "don't feed the troll" doesn't seem to work here any more. There are either a lot more of them, or they have a lot more aliases. I wish we had some sort of crowd control (meaning troll control, lol) here, like quite a few other sites. Even the way more Apple-unfriendly sites have them. While I am sensitive towards differences of opinion, and having an open discussion with varying viewpoints, many of these malcontents have no interest in adding to the discussion, they want to hijack it, or end it altogether... or they want to shape public opinion among the forum readers. And that is exactly what they are doing... read among the threads for the voices of the confused, who are needlessly worried over non-existent defects and are afraid to go ahead with their purchases.

Fortunately, these folks are usually not subtle, and are easily spotted by their non-existent posting history... or worse their posting history where each post has the same angle, and the same message. Apple sucks, they cheat you, they make crap... etc. etc.

Folks come here, or used to, to share their experiences, and to resolve legitimate problems, or to help those who have problems (which exist with every product, no matter who manufactures it).

Perhaps I have become overly cynical, but yes... I really think that. I also am a bit saddened by the state of the online community here. This used to be more of a safe haven, away from the trolls. I can get that at Ars, Gizmodo, Engadget, etc...
cheers,
michael

I hate to flipflop from my earlier post but with all that's going on you just may be right. I'm still relativly new here but even I can see a difference. I came here for the wealth of info on a new platform that I was getting into. The info was easy to spot and in abundance. Now, I have to hunt and peck and wade through all the crap to find something interesting or something specific that I'm looking for. Of course I search a lot more now.

But this would be a pretty big conspiracy if what some are saying is true. All the trolls can't be financially tied various entities who would gain from this. So is there also a PC and anti-apple rebellion taking place for no other reason other than to knock Apple down a few notches?

But, back on topic about this company. They should pay big to set an example. Sure, the review system will never be totaly clean but we just can't let it go either.

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A400 Safari/6531.22.7)

Wow. What coniving arses, both the people who used these 'reviewers' and the company themselves.

Glad they got called out!

 

[h1r0ll3r]

How is it not newsworthy? It is very important that info about fake reviews get widely disseminated so people are aware of and can beware of them when buying items in the App store.

This is so obvious that I have to label your post as a troll.

Aww....my post iz labeled az troll

Really glad this newsworthy piece was posted since I had absolutely, positively NO idea that people would stoop so low as to write fake reviewf....ESPECIALLY in the App Store. Glad mine eyes doth seeith the light on these wretched scalliwags posting fake reviews...in the App Store.

 

[JAT]

Aww....my post iz labeled az troll

Really glad this newsworthy piece was posted since I had absolutely, positively NO idea that people would stoop so low as to write fake reviewf....ESPECIALLY in the App Store. Glad mine eyes doth seeith the light on these wretched scalliwags posting fake reviews...in the App Store.

WINNER!!!

For posting slang from the most centuries in one paragraph. Congrats!

 

[terryzx]

Agree. How can there be more negative votes than positive on this?? Oh, right, the fraudsters are here, too.

Same thing that I noticed also

 

[Jethrotoe]

Aww....my post iz labeled az troll

Really glad this newsworthy piece was posted since I had absolutely, positively NO idea that people would stoop so low as to write fake reviewf....ESPECIALLY in the App Store. Glad mine eyes doth seeith the light on these wretched scalliwags posting fake reviews...in the App Store.

It's not just "people" writing fake reviews.
It's a company organizing a work force to offer fake reviews as a service to developers.
Different league. Perhaps read the article again.

 

[sandman42]

Reverb apparently continues to believe that it did nothing wrong, calling the charges a "frivolous matter" while noting that it settled the case without financial penalty or admission of lawbreaking so that it would not have to devote time and money to defending itself.

Apparently they're confusing "not specifically illegal" with "not unethical", or more simply, "not wrong". The mantra of liars and cheats.

 

[entatlrg]

It's a corrupt, 'smoke and mirrors' world out there ... I never thought much about it happening here on MacRumors, I see the odd crazy rant but usually read a sentence, see it's bull and move on.

But sure now that I think about it probably it happens here too, the 'net is so full of fake reviews it's usually best to find forums from people who own the product and have some credibility... trolls are fairly easy to spot.

 

[Doctor Q]

I think MacRumors is working for the FTC and was paid to post this news story! No, not really. I'm kidding.

But it's true that some companies resort to shady practices such as posting glowing reviews. They do this in the iTunes store, in the MacRumors forums, and at thousands of other tech websites and retail sites that allow comments or discussions. Sometimes they appear to be organized efforts by multiple people promoting multiple products, while others are individual vendors with self-serving motives.

The MacRumors moderators spend time every day weeding out obvious shilling. Forum users who report suspicious posts help in this effort. But it can't be fully contained because there's no foolproof way to know a poster's motives. That's why caveat emptor applies. When you read comments about software or hardware in the forums, consider the source of the comment, consider whether you trust them, and make your own decisions.

 

[JAT]

But it's true that some companies resort to shady practices such as posting glowing reviews.

....changing the Coke formula, etc.

 

[mlblacy]

I do, but...

Can't you see the problem there?

Ars, Gizmodo, Engadget and co are tech sites that cover the events of the whole electronic world. They pull in creatives, regular Joes, teens, adults, the phone market, the geeks; everyone.

I read a lot of blogs and tech sites, and consider it part of my "job" to help me stay current. I read those and others, but often the knee-jerk vitriol is the norm, and anti-apple sentiments are in the majority... but still I read them. The most unabashed pro-apple, intelligently written stuff is found at Gruber's Daring Fireball. He solves the issue but having no "conversation", and no voice other than his own (he has no comments enabled). While I often wonder if that is the best approach, his stuff is usually cogent, pithy, and on the mark... so his approach is worth the trade-off I guess.

But here, the conversation itself was always worth having, besides you can usually learn something from folks you disagree with, even if the only thing you agree on is to "disagree". I enjoy the forum threads, the occasional snark, and the ability to solve some of the issues that arise, and to learn from other people's mistakes, experiences, and knowledge.

I don't know if I actually believe in a vast conspiracy at work here. But, that being said others have noted the change as well. Also, the "talking points" are usually pretty consistent. And... the threads are persistent and repetitive. Once they end, like a whack-a-mole they pop up again. I did have the notion that this was the natural result of just having more customers, and from a wider base of backgrounds. I don't think it has anything to do with age, as usually the younger ones are more savvy tech-wise.

I just know that there is a lot less "real" dialog going on, and they are priming folks to be disappointed and dissatisfied. Is a single "stuck" really a dealbreaker? Especially when there are (I think) 3,686,400 of them on a 27" iMac screen (forgive me if my math is wrong, but you get my drift). It IS harder to find good information around here these days, and other have voiced the same opinion. It also used to be a plus that there was such a variety of folks here, young and old, newbs and old sages, business folks and home users... the diversity was one of its strengths.

My two cents...
michael

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Holy crapoly, how many of us have purchased junkie apps based on these false reviews? Time to sue these idiots!!! $$$

 

[mlblacy]

Can't you see the problem there?

Well, I just finished read through all 17,462 of your posts trying to decide if you were a troll or not (totally kidding). How the hell does someone manage to post 17,462 posts, and NOT reach demi status? lol...
cheers,
michael

 

[JAT]

Well, I just finished read through all 17,462 of your posts trying to decide if you were a troll or not (totally kidding). How the hell does someone manage to post 17,462 posts, and NOT reach demi status? lol...
cheers,
michael

Demi is a contributor, not based on post count.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Concerning trolls

I've been on other boards with trolls. Some were obviously paid. One was identified as such as working on a computer with IP from a law firm of clients opposed to the site. I've also come across teenagers who could care less about a topic but like to bait people into long worded responses full of emotion. Its cheap entertainment. Minimal effort by the troll to work someone up into wasting a half an hour on a lengthy response they will laugh at.

The trolls are a problem but the problem can be a funny nuisance or a snow balling problem depending on how regulars handle it.

A few things to remember:
1. Recognize the difference between a troll and someone who simply has a different opinion. Avoid friendly fire.
2. Don't let them wear you out. Many times a troll doesn't really care about the debate or the topic. They might provide a silly argument and continue to repeat it or post weak responses to waste your time. Cluttering up a thread is one goal. Another is to enjoy the emotional response shown in verbose posts. Once you realize a troll is responding to every one of your posts with little substance or a changing topic to draw you along, just give very short (2-3 word) responses. The troll gives up because they end up being the one strung along. Or just drop it. "Winning" a debate is not getting the last word in. Post around them.
3. Police fellow posters. Tell them to "ignore the trolls". Everyone needs a reminder.

Eventually you would like a community that ignores and posts around obvious trolls so that threads do not get buried by troll bait.

I've seen message board communities get good at this but its not easy.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Does anyone have a photobucket account?

Take a screen shot of their clients on their site:
http://www.reverbinc.com/ourclients/

and post it to display here. Otherwise I can do it later. I'll have to set up a photobucket account

I took screen shots already.

If you go to their main page:
http://www.reverbinc.com/

Cached: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ations&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

It looks like the site is down. I think they will be changing their names soon. It should be shared here and elsewhere. Its cowardly to run from mistakes like that.