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My $0.02:

Didn't Microsoft begin a new licensing program when they released XP that effectively tripled the cost of licenses to corporations? Comparing the cost of OSX licenses to Windows Licenses alone would cut costs. Furthermore, when you consider the fact that OSX can run not only Mac software, but Darwin-compatible software as well, you effectively increase the options on that front as well. Finally, since OSX is so compatible with non-Mac networks, you alleviate many of the concerns associated with changing platforms. XML, SQL, etc. are all cross-platform standards that can be used for databases, records, etc.

Granted, you will have a large initial crunch resulting from people having to adjust to OSX, many of whom have probably never used a Mac in any form before. But once that initial learning curve has been traveled, I honestly think that you have a more cost-effective, stable IT infrastructure to work from. As far as tech support goes, you will probably see more issues that are easily resolved (i.e. swap out memory/HD, reinstall the OS image, etc.) than the typical Windows issues (such as virus/spyware removal, registry configuration errors, faulty updates crashing the OS, etc.).

I can't speak to the differences between Windows and MacOS in a corporate environment, but I know that at the university I attended, the techs spent less than 5% of their time actually troubleshooting or maintaining the Macs. Considering that in the labs the Mac/windows ratio was 1:1, that's a pretty telling statistic. And the Macs were often in heavier demand than the Windows machines, simply because you knew that you could sit down, launch Word, and type your paper. And this was before OSX was released.

One of the biggest myths about the Mac is that "there's no software for the Mac". But when you look at the major retailers (i.e. catalog & web-based companies), you see that there is far more software than you might see on the shelves of CompUSA, Fry's, BBY, etc. Database software? Check. Photo editing software? Check. Email/contact/personal organization software? Check. Photoshop, FileMaker, etc. all were first sold for the Mac.

I use both Windows and OSX daily - I have to use Windows (NT, of all things) at work, and I have both a WinXP and an OSX machine I use at home. All in all, I honestly spend much more time enjoying my Mac than enjoying Windows. How many people have spent hours downloading patches and updates for their Windows machine, then had to turn around and figure out why the PC is suddenly noticeably slower? OTOH, I turn on the Mac, fire up whatever program I need to work in at that particular moment, and have fun doing it.

The less time spent on updating machines and making sure the registry is not corrupted, the more time users can spend on actually being productive. That's why i have more fun on my Mac, because I'm far more productive on it than on my Windows PC.
 
Savage Henry said:
Haven't you just said this?

yeah... I hit the button and it told me I was not logged in. So I went back and redid the post and looked at some of the figures again and thought of a couple of other areas that they would save some cash on. I forwarded the information to the people working up the proposal for them to confirm them.

Sorry for the double post.
 
Savage Henry said:
First my Dad, now it's Fed-Ex, tomorrow World Domination !! Mmwwhuuuu Haa Haaa Haaaaa!!!

I sincerely hope a) they go through with it, b)others follow, and c) the source isn't a pile of poop!!:)


sounds good but once apple has 50% then we get all those crap viruses too. I somehow like the fact that not everyone has a mac. makes me and my mac feels special;)

cu
dave
 
tntoak said:
Didn't Microsoft begin a new licensing program when they released XP that effectively tripled the cost of licenses to corporations? Comparing the cost of OSX licenses to Windows Licenses alone would cut costs.

I think that is just client licenses to server products, so I can see where buying an Xserve and using it for server duties could be a nice cost savings. However, if AppleCare is the same for Xserves as it is for the rest of Apple's line, I would be hesitant to place mission critical stuff on a machine I have mail in service for. I don't know enough about Apple's service on Xserves, it could be possible that they do same day onsite service like IBM, Compaq, Dell, etc. do, I just haven't seen it mentioned.

As for spending a ton of time fixing registry problems or stuff like that, I don't know anybody competent who spends any time doing that stuff. If you're running one of the 9x versions of windows, which you shouldn't be doing in a corporate environment, or you give everyone admin rights to a NT, 2000, or XP box (again a big no-no) you will have problems because the users can just install every piece of junk software/malware/spyware they find on the web, delete stuff at will, etc. But if you use NT, 2000, or XP, have a virus scanner, and apply a little bit of common sense when you set up user rights, Windows works just fine.
 
virus schmirus

I have been in charge of the desktops at my job for a little over a year and a half now. With a proactive plan regarding windows update and norton anti-virus, we have not lost one machine since I took over. I am not really bragging, just pointing out that it is easy to do with basic over the counter tools. All our machines now run XP Pro (and the latest version of Office) and they all run 24 hours a day (we have a lot of IMAP email coming in). Easy enough to set windows update to automatic download and install at 3am, and have Norton do a full system scan every night at 8pm. The initial install of each machine took a while (close to 3 hrs each, but that includes all the network config, local vs network printers, and installing our custom business software), but doing it right has kept things fairly clean.

The only problem I have had is users installing HOTBAR without knowing what it was. My fav quote is "I didn't know what it was, so I just said yes." Odd how depending on whom you talk to, the word "yes" gets interchanged with "no."

When I read these stories of big companies wanting to switch, and the "virus problem" is mentioned, I just cringe. The problem is not the virus, but the user of the computer, and the IT department in charge of watching over these machines.

I am all for people switching from Windows to Mac, but it should be for the right reasons.
 
Ya, but...

atomwork said:
sounds good but once apple has 50% then we get all those crap viruses too. I somehow like the fact that not everyone has a mac. makes me and my mac feels special;)

cu
dave


I read somewhere in a thread here that hackers ARE trying to get into Mac OS X, but it's supposed to be very difficult and is considered a major coup if you do get in. So, if 10.3 is that secure, by the time apple *has* 50% of the market share, we will have OS 11 or 12 or w/e and it will be so secue that no one can get into it! HA, well, anyway it will be more secure.
 
Doesn't look like Apple is making a push to me...

evolu said:
I bet apple is making a push at companies like Fedex - just look at all the amazing marketing connections they are establishing with Big Businesses. ...an Apple exec goes in to Fedex and pitches why they should switch, gives them a discount on a huge volumed order and everyone wins.

Apple's getting saavy again.

----------------------------

I don't think so...
My company (a national financial services co. w/ 1000 employees) is 99% PC. When an opportunity came up where we were going to purchase 100 new laptops, I thought this would be a great time to bring Apple in for a PowerBook demo.

I called the Apple store, the main Apple switchboard, pre-sales tech support, sent emails to everyone under the sun, including the "switch" group - the BEST response that I got was from the Apple Store who said they would pass my inquiery up to management. I have not received a single phone call or email from Apple.

Meanwhile, in 20 minutes I was able to arrange delivery of an HP, IBM, Dell and Gateway laptops. All of those companies are interested in my $250,000.00 project, but it seems that Apple does not need the business...

If Apple is gaining corporate PC market share it is due to Microslop's blunders - not because they did anything special.
 
barbezat said:
----------------------------

I don't think so...
My company (a national financial services co. w/ 1000 employees) is 99% PC. When an opportunity came up where we were going to purchase 100 new laptops, I thought this would be a great time to bring Apple in for a PowerBook demo.

I called the Apple store, the main Apple switchboard, pre-sales tech support, sent emails to everyone under the sun, including the "switch" group - the BEST response that I got was from the Apple Store who said they would pass my inquiery up to management. I have not received a single phone call or email from Apple.

Meanwhile, in 20 minutes I was able to arrange delivery of an HP, IBM, Dell and Gateway laptops. All of those companies are interested in my $250,000.00 project, but it seems that Apple does not need the business...

If Apple is gaining corporate PC market share it is due to Microslop's blunders - not because they did anything special.


One example does not mean that that is Apple's policy, however. And if the project is worth just $250k, perhaps that's why you never got a response. If they make a new deal with FedEx, the value of that project will easily exceed $1 million. On the other hand, it is also possible that your inquiry never got past the Apple Store, for anyone of a number of reasons.
 
Calebj14 said:
I read somewhere in a thread here that hackers ARE trying to get into Mac OS X, but it's supposed to be very difficult and is considered a major coup if you do get in. So, if 10.3 is that secure, by the time apple *has* 50% of the market share, we will have OS 11 or 12 or w/e and it will be so secue that no one can get into it! HA, well, anyway it will be more secure.

I think one of the things people are missing in the "no virus for macs" is that being lost in a windows environment actively PROTECTS Macs.
Even if a very effective OS X virus was designed (and it will be), it would not spread as efficiently because it would likely fail to infect windows machines and multiplicate there, therefore propagating very slowly in a linear rather then exponential fashion. Like most other infecting agents, computer viruses/worms tend to be host-specific and don't cross barriers easily.
Of course if someone comes up with a 'dual-boot' virus then it's a different story, but that would probably be harder to write and easier to detect.
 
Don't panic said:
I think one of the things people are missing in the "no virus for macs" is that being lost in a windows environment actively PROTECTS Macs.
Even if a very effective OS X virus was designed (and it will be), it would not spread as efficiently because it would likely fail to infect windows machines and multiplicate there, therefore propagating very slowly in a linear rather then exponential fashion. Like most other infecting agents, computer viruses/worms tend to be host-specific and don't cross barriers easily.
Of course if someone comes up with a 'dual-boot' virus then it's a different story, but that would probably be harder to write and easier to detect.

On the "dual-boot" virus idea, would it be possible to code one in Java?
 
Apple needs to do more...

tntoak said:
One example does not mean that that is Apple's policy, however. And if the project is worth just $250k, perhaps that's why you never got a response. If they make a new deal with FedEx, the value of that project will easily exceed $1 million. On the other hand, it is also possible that your inquiry never got past the Apple Store, for anyone of a number of reasons.

I agree that one example does not make it a policy - either way. Although my last job was with a multi-national pharmaceutical comapny and we had trouble getting the same thing there...

My point is that IF Apple expects to convert corporate america (more than 1 company at a time) away from the HPs, Dells & IBMs, they will need to do a much better job of positioning/marketing their products and services for this new audiance. Your regular consumer (myself included) may be willing to shell out $270 for an iPod that is not even shipping yet - but I can guarantee that my company is not going to spend a dime on equipment that has not been tested and run through it's paces on site - and we will not pay for access to their equipment for this testing - why would we when everyone else provides it at no cost?

If Apple wants to get serious about gaining corporate market share, it is going to take more than a bunch of "switching" ads - they need to get into the trenches with IT folks and SHOW them (not just tell them) how good their products are.

It KILLS me to know that one of the big PC makers are going to get this business when I would MUCH rather send it to Apple. But when they show ZERO interest in gaining our business (while the PC makers are bending over backwards) - I see no other options :(
 
Virus problems?

I hate to say it, but I think you're also blessed with a little bit of pure luck.
I was in charge of corporate desktops for 6 years with a previous employer, and currently do quite a bit of administration (remote and on-site) for clients who hire us when they can't afford a full-time I.T. employee on staff.

I'm very familiar with the security permissions and tools one can use to reduce the risk of problems. Still, it's more a matter of "when" than "if" you'll have trouble in an all Windows environment.

For example, you say you use Norton anti-virus? Well, I get at least one call per week to repair machines that were running the latest version of Norton anti-virus with the latest signature updates, and *still* got infected with trojan horses or virii that Norton never found. It's not a *bad* product, but anyone who says it has a 100% detection rate is being dishonest. Especially with the recent "dialer" and "downloader" type trojan horses, the AVG antivirus product can find many that Norton can't.

Also, not everyone can just go applying all the Windows updates as soon as they're released and not have issues. I used to work in a place that did manufacturing, and they used a specialized Windows package called Intellution. (Allowed rapid development of applications that controlled equipment like furnances, conveyor belts, etc.) Anyway, I remember one of the Windows NT service packs severely breaking Intellution - and the company's response? "Yep - we know. Just don't run our product on systems with the latest update until we get our next version out."

Switching from PC/Windows to an alternate platform to avoid the virus problem can make plenty of sense. It doesn't have to be Mac, of course. It could be Linux, FreeBSD, or something else entirely. But OS X is probably your next most logical choice for a user-friendly workstation environment right now.... Windows architecture has a number of "weak spots" that inherently make it vulnerable to attacks. (EG. Active-X support in the browser)


iPC said:
I have been in charge of the desktops at my job for a little over a year and a half now. With a proactive plan regarding windows update and norton anti-virus, we have not lost one machine since I took over. I am not really bragging, just pointing out that it is easy to do with basic over the counter tools. All our machines now run XP Pro (and the latest version of Office) and they all run 24 hours a day (we have a lot of IMAP email coming in). Easy enough to set windows update to automatic download and install at 3am, and have Norton do a full system scan every night at 8pm. The initial install of each machine took a while (close to 3 hrs each, but that includes all the network config, local vs network printers, and installing our custom business software), but doing it right has kept things fairly clean.

The only problem I have had is users installing HOTBAR without knowing what it was. My fav quote is "I didn't know what it was, so I just said yes." Odd how depending on whom you talk to, the word "yes" gets interchanged with "no."

When I read these stories of big companies wanting to switch, and the "virus problem" is mentioned, I just cringe. The problem is not the virus, but the user of the computer, and the IT department in charge of watching over these machines.

I am all for people switching from Windows to Mac, but it should be for the right reasons.
 
kingtj said:
I hate to say it, but I think you're also blessed with a little bit of pure luck.
I was in charge of corporate desktops for 6 years with a previous employer, and currently do quite a bit of administration (remote and on-site) for clients who hire us when they can't afford a full-time I.T. employee on staff.

I'm very familiar with the security permissions and tools one can use to reduce the risk of problems. Still, it's more a matter of "when" than "if" you'll have trouble in an all Windows environment.

For example, you say you use Norton anti-virus? Well, I get at least one call per week to repair machines that were running the latest version of Norton anti-virus with the latest signature updates, and *still* got infected with trojan horses or virii that Norton never found. It's not a *bad* product, but anyone who says it has a 100% detection rate is being dishonest. Especially with the recent "dialer" and "downloader" type trojan horses, the AVG antivirus product can find many that Norton can't.

Also, not everyone can just go applying all the Windows updates as soon as they're released and not have issues. I used to work in a place that did manufacturing, and they used a specialized Windows package called Intellution. (Allowed rapid development of applications that controlled equipment like furnances, conveyor belts, etc.) Anyway, I remember one of the Windows NT service packs severely breaking Intellution - and the company's response? "Yep - we know. Just don't run our product on systems with the latest update until we get our next version out."

Switching from PC/Windows to an alternate platform to avoid the virus problem can make plenty of sense. It doesn't have to be Mac, of course. It could be Linux, FreeBSD, or something else entirely. But OS X is probably your next most logical choice for a user-friendly workstation environment right now.... Windows architecture has a number of "weak spots" that inherently make it vulnerable to attacks. (EG. Active-X support in the browser)
I do agree that some of it has been luck. But it is also a small enough company that if anyone has a question about something (email, link, whatever) they can just call me. They understand that 30 seconds of explaining now versus 3 or 4 hours rebuilding machine is preferable. I am also lucky in that our email hosting company is small, and willing to run custom anti-virus configs for us (catches over 90%, which isn't great, but he never blocks anything that shouldn't be - runs on win2k - blech).

As for the "virus" situation with OS X... there are many root exploits out there, for linux, bsd, OS X, whatever. The difference is they require some sort of personal interaction with the target machine.
 
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